1866 loading gate question

[Dyess Scout]

In less than 100 rounds through my Uberti '66 Sporting Rifle in .38Spl I've already had to replace my loading gate.

Not a hard item to replace but I do have to wonder if there is a way to beef these things up or if anybody makes a replacement part that is a beefed up design.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Several vendors sell a reinforced one.  Maybe Track of the Wolf?  Someone with a1866 please speak up!  I'm a Henry guy!

[Cliff Fendley]

VTI gun parts sells an upgraded one. Or you can take an original and solder a little gusset behind the tab to reinforce it.

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[Mike]

Uberti"s biggest market and they have a small part like this fai  :-Xl. Not sure if the older ones are better made but my two 66 have had hundreds of rounds with no problems.

[Abilene]

Uberti"s biggest market and they have a small part like this fai  :-Xl. Not sure if the older ones are better made but my two 66 have had hundreds of rounds with no problems.

Yeah, the older ones (say, 12-15 years ago?) were bullet-proof.  But the newer stamped tab design was a "cost saving" thing for Uberti, and a headache for us.  In the last couple years they deepened the trough, which improves the situation but doesn't cure it.  It is worse on smaller calibers because less of the rim is supported by the gate edge and more is supported by the tab.

[River City John]

Uberti"s biggest market and they have a small part like this fai   :-Xl. Not sure if the older ones are better made but my two 66 have had hundreds of rounds with no problems.

My 1999 manufacture '66 carbine in .38sp has given yeoman service. I'm going to guess that the weaker loading gate part was substituted after that date. Or, my gate just hasn't failed yet . . .

RCJ

[Tascosa Joe]

The Track of the Wolf loading gate is the way to go.

[Fingers McGee]

I've put the VTI improved loading gate on two of my 44-40 lever guns (an 1866 carbine and 1873 short rifle)  The improved gate has a deep V instead of the shallow curve in the ladle which takes the strain off the tab.  It also is not as stiff as the original gate which makes loading easier. 

[Coffinmaker]

OK!!  My Turn!! My Turn!!  My Turn!!!

Way back in the Wabac (Sherman and Mr Peabody) Uberti had a bullet proof Ladle.  Straight piece of steel welded to the back of the Ladle.  Bullet Proof.  Then, with infinite wisdom, Uberti "Enhanced" the Ladle to the new stamped "Bent Tab" design.  Guarantied to break.  Some let go in as little a 5 rounds.

The OEM Uberti Ladle is too shallow in the spoon area.  ESPECIALLY in a .38 Rifle.  ALL the stress is on the tab.  The tab crystalizes at the bend.  Currently, no one offers a '66 Ladle "reinforced."  There are however several ways to fix it.  First, remove the OEM ladle and put it in a safe place (the trash can).  Order a new after-market ladle from VTI GUNPARTS.  When you get the new one, remove all oils.  Remove the blueing from the back of the tab and the back of the Ladle. Clean it again with some alcohol.  Make a little dam on both sides of the tab with masking tape and mix up some JB Weld.  Fill the area behind the tab with JB Weld, stand it up at a 45 degree angle and let it set up overnight.  You want your finished "gusset" the same width as the tab.  Remove the tape.  Install it in the gun.

I really liked the VTI Ladle when I was still building competition rifles.  Even did the JB fix for my own guns.  I felt then, as I feel now, if it is of the bent tab design, reinforce even the after-market ladle.  Better safe than sorry.

As an additional ...... Miroku is also using the bent tab on their new release '66.  STUPID!!

Coffinmaker   

[Dyess Scout]

The Track of the Wolf loading gate is the way to go.

that's where I got my replacement gate from

I also talked to my grandfather, who owns a gun shop and who has done hundreds if not thousands of action jobs on cowboy guns, about my issue. He asked how many rounds was I loading in the rifle. I told him if just plinking at a steel Christmas tree or paper then I was loading 12. He told me to not go above 10 since its hard on the loading gate.

[OD#3]

I just reinforced the existing gate, though replacing it with a beefier gate from VTI would have been preferable.  I chronicled the work I did on my '66, but the videos came out rather long, and I tend to ramble a lot.  Consequently, they're not too popular, but if you skip to the 4:24 minute mark, you can see how I reinforced my ladle.  Time will tell if it holds, but it looks promising...

[Coffinmaker]

OD #3,

Really nice fix.  Although I really couldn't tell if you soldered the little piece of Krap to the gusset as well??  I particularly liked the "Torch and The Rag" portion.  Not that I've ever done that     I also know a cleaning rag full of Denatured Alcohol will sort of ... Explode.  (Don't ask how I know this fact )

Coffinmaker

[OD#3]

Hey Coffinmaker,

You weren't supposed to watch beyond the actual loading gate fix.  And yes, I did solder "the little piece of Krap to the gusset as well".  I'd have shown more work, but even editing out all I thought I could, I ended up with an hour's worth of video that I had to split into two features.  Anyway, thanks for the compliment on the fix.  Time will tell if it holds, but it looked like a good solder joint in person.

[Mike]

But why should you, I have to do this fix on a gun they sell for use in a high volume shooting sport. I wounder if they read these post's.

[Coffinmaker]

Because it actually needs to be done before the rifle is put into service regardless of the cost of the rifle or the volume of the game we play.  I know there are folks at the factory who peruse some of these shooter forums.  In the past, response time from the time problem is identified, until Uberti remedies, is 5 to 7 years.  Yep .... Years.  Those response times were for safety related fix's.  Personally, I seriously doubt we will ever see a design change from Uberti for the 1866 Ladle.  After all, they are contributing to the after-market cottage industries ..... right??

OD #3,
Oops.  Sorry.  Couldn't help myself??  Chef De La Gun making special "Rag Flambé" ..... Priceless, having been there.  Still a really nice fix.  And, if my simplistic JB Weld fix has stay'd put for 10 years (10 and counting), yours should be "forever."  I do think however, you'd be tickle'd with the deeper spoon of the after-market ladle.  Looks so much more "original" than the almost flat Uberti thingie.

I do believe, in the large bore guns with the nice big cartridge base/rim, the deeper spoon of the after-market should actually suffice.  Just once bitten .. twice shy.  With the 38 Spl cartridge however, not so much.  98% of the rim is supported only by the little tab.  38s need reinforcement regardless.

Coffinmaker

[Professor Marvel]

Nice Job OD !

Mike: I have followed your trials and tribulations with the Italian guns "downuunder" and I sympathize. But
the Italians sell to a "price point", and if they exceed that price no one will buy it. For that price, we get "affordable"
replicas that work out of the box, but will "need work", but would not otherwise exist. Just look at the actual prices "in the day" of the  Colt 2nd Gen BP guns vs the Italian replicas.

Let us compare the Genuine Colt 1851 NAVY "C" SERIES vs Italian replicas in 1975.

in 1975 while going to college, I was making $2.25 an hour as a janitor, $4 an hour in the oil refinery during the summer when I could get the work.

In 1975 the Colt made 2nd Gen 1851 sold for ~ $200 in 1975
an Italian Steel Frame 1851 from "Centennial Arms" in 1975 went for $75.
a 266% price difference for the "well fit & finished Colt"
That was almost a full weeks pay ( before payroll deductions) for the replica, almost 2 1/2 weeks pay for the Colt.

you could find them cheaper on sale from Dixie or EMF
You could also get a Remington 1858 "kit" (sand and blue it yourself) for ~ $50 from Dixie which is what I did.
It cost me ~ 1/2 of a week's wages.

The current MSRP of an 1866 Yellowboy in the U.S. starts at ~$1200 U.S.
SO, if one is willing to pay $3000 US ( ie 250% premium ) you could have what you desire for a well fit & finished Yellowboy.
But no company will stay in business long for that price.
 
Or one can pay less, and get a "modern gun" that sometimes works fine. but it's not an 1866.

ADDENDUM:  guess what, it's not just Uberti - it seems Marlin cannot get a barrel rifled correctly even after several tries!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?329568-No-lands-in-new-marlin-1895-barrel

yhs
prof marvel

[Mike]

I here what you are saying