Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Frontier Iron => Topic started by: Drydock on February 15, 2022, 02:21:09 PM
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Picked up one of these off GB. Caliber .44 Russian. Got a good deal as it was missing the cylinder retaining screw. $9 to VTI fixed that.
I like the NA top breaks, I've said before they have the best Black Powder Cylinder Bevel of any of the imports. Current ones have none at all. However, this one in particular has a further difference.
First of all, none of these measurements include the star ratchet. Just the cylinder bulk and the "Gas collar" at the front. All my current Uberti top breaks have a cylinder length of 1.56". The collar at front measures .06". These are two Navy Arms Schofield models and a Cimarron #3 Russian. However, this Navy Arms #3 Russian has a 1.50" cylinder, with a .12 Collar at front. The Forcing cone on the barrel has also been extended .06" to match. This is a respectable visual difference.
I've never seen this before, and wonder if any others have. This is an early production gun, year 2000. It does shoot Black powder loads extremely well. The sights are also dead on, my other Russian shoots well left, though I was able to bend the front sight enough to compensate.
Also noted: the Retention screw remained tight while shooting black powder, but when shooting smokeless loads with their sharper recoil impulse began to work loose. I can see how the original was lost.
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Interesting. Sounds like Uberti had it right, then screwed it up. I'm guessing that those early repros were only available in 44 Russian, then they stretched the cylinder so they could make it in 45 Colt.
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Yeah, I'd like to see a few other early ones, if this was standard. One of my Schofields is older (1997) but has the longer cylinder spec. I would have thought Uberti would have used the same cylinder. Cannot remember if Navy Arms ever offered .45 Colt in these. The #3 Third Model Russian was Val Forgetts last project (1999), was exclusive to NA for a while.
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Drydock, I am envious. I would love to have a reproduction S&W break-top that shot shot black powder. My S&W Model of 2000 Schofield certainly won't.
Dave
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I've got two, this Russian and that older Schofield mentioned. Danged if I know why. Maybe with these old Navy Arms revolvers they've been shot enough the last 20 years to wear into a "sweet spot" of clearances that allows it. I'll take it.
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The .12" collar on the gun that works with BP, vs the .06" collar on the newer ones is the key.
Dave
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But the Schofield I have has the .06 collar and spins free after 50 rounds. There's a lot of variables at work here. ??? They both do have very tight cylinder gaps and well cut forcing cones.
I do agree though, I think if I were looking for a Uberti top break with the best chance of working with BP, I'd look for one of these long collar Russians.
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Just to illustrate, here's a 2004 Stoeger import with the longer collar. Now I wonder if this was universal until Uberti decided to chamber the longer 45. And when that was.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/917948635
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Mine was made in 2015. Marked "Stoeger Accokeek Md". It has the short collar, and the cylinder will bind after 10 rounds.
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Capn, is yours a .44 Russian, or a 45?
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.44 Russian. I loaded 17 grains of Swiss #2 (3Fg), a milk carton wad, and the LEE 200 grain RNFP in Starline brass with Winchester LP primers. Bullets were pan-lubed with a home-made concoction based on bees-wax.
I'll try dipping the nose of the bullet in lube after it is crimped in-place, or just fill the front of the cylinder with grease, as I would a cap-and-ball revolver. The LEE bullet has really shallow grease grooves.
I like the look and feel of the gun, but will limit it to MLAIC precision work at 25 meters. The hump on the backstrap just make it awkward to shoot "duelist-style" in CAS.
(The Russian cavalrymen back-in-the-day must have had abnormally long thumbs...!)
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I've been using this one: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-215C 20 grains 3f. Was using OE, using Shuetzen (Wano) for now.
I'm convinced the Russians envisioned these as cavalry magazine single shots: On command, present the weapon before you, muzzle up, trigger finger on hook where the officer can see it. On command, cock the weapon with the edge of the rein hand. (Having the trigger finger on the hook also prevents the trigger interference of the S&W design. This also explains the shape of the hammer spur). Advance at the walk, the trot, then the gallop. Upon reaching firing position, wheel to the left, present and fire (all on command). Retreat to start position to reform and begin again, as the 2nd line begins its trot. 3rd line standing by.
Proper cavalry charges are done in 3 lines. This was how it was done with the earlier single shots. Using the revolver allows all this to happen at a higher rate, with the lines closer together. Melee engagements were the provence of the Sabre.
Probably why Sherman wanted to equip cavalry with Rolling block single shot pistols.
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I have a Navy Arms marked .44 Russian in the 65XX serial range that has the 1.5" cylinder and .12" collar.
It was on a table of a local show a few years ago with box and reloading dies, bullets, brass and no price.
Asked how much for the lot and was told $500 :o. Box was a standard Uberti box and not the nice Navy Arms one but
the sticker matched and I'm not complaining.
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You done good!