Author Topic: Early 3rd Model buttplate/sling swivels? Walnut stocks?  (Read 893 times)

Offline Little Dalton

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Early 3rd Model buttplate/sling swivels? Walnut stocks?
« on: January 06, 2023, 08:30:57 AM »
I'm slowly dolling up my Cimarron 1873 rifle in .44WCF with the extras I want, as well as bringing it closer to what an original early 3rd model (pre-1885) would have been like in some respects. Next up is a sling- I'm fine without one most of the time, but it would be real nice when dragging a deer, etc., and I'm sure if I had one it would get a lot of use. I've been looking at photos of original rifles with swivels, as well as reading what info I can find online- but I'm still left with many questions. I see two basic setups: Sling loops attached directly to the rifle via bases in the buttstock and nosecap, as on this rifle:

 https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/69/3016/inscribed-winchester-model-1873-lever-action-rifle-dual-tone

And then there's the famous "fish-hook" style swivels, used in conjunction with "eyes" set into the buttstock and forend, as on this example:

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/72/2013/engraved-winchester-model-1873-lever-action-rifle

So, the question is, which setup is more appropriate/common on early 3rd models? I realize that we're talking about an option that was pretty rare regardless, but if I'm going to go through all the trouble to add swivels, I want to go with the most period correct option. Which brings me to mention that I don't really care which style of swivels is more trouble/expense to make/install, just want to get underway with the project.

Now, on to the buttplate: Should an early 3rd model large-bore '73 most definitely have the cleaning rod trap in the buttplate? If so, that's next up to tackle. I'm also pretty happy with my refinish job on the european walnut stocks- but if I'm going to go through all this trouble, I'm thinking about swapping those out for real american black walnut stocks. I'm up for that- just would love to find a set that while it can be fitted to the Uberti, is profiled a bit more like the originals- i.e. comb, bottom of buttstock, etc. Anyone have any experience with this? Are there any precarved stocks (I can do a lot of fitting) that fit this bill? Can precarves for originals be fitted to Ubertis?

Also, no offense, but please save all the "why not just get an original" type comments if you have them. The main reason is I use this rifle HARD, and in two years it already looks more worn than most CAS rifles I've ever seen. I hunt with it extensively, and plan to do so for many more decades. I have no interest in beating up an original, though I'm sure I'll have some original guns at some point to carefully shoot and display.
Jordan Goodwin, Blacksmith

Offline Boone May

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Re: Early 3rd Model buttplate/sling swivels? Walnut stocks?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2023, 09:50:27 AM »
The sling swivels that were screwed on to the stock (rear) and through a hole in the nose cap (front) were the earliest type.  The stud for the front sling loop was peened over to hold it in place.  It can still swivel freely.  This style would be most appropriate for an 1880's rifle.  See photos below of an 1876 vintage Model 1873 rifle.
The fish hook style (The Winchester Sling) show up later.  I found it illustrated in the March 1898 catalog.
Regarding the butt plate, all the .38 and .44 caliber rifles and carbines had the trap door for the cleaning rods as standard.
Finally, I don't know who might make a sling but you might want to check with Rick at Old West Reproductions.  He made sling swivels for Henry rifles at one time. 
Post some pictures when your gun has been completed with your changes.

"There are a few things they didn't tell me when I hired on with this outfit."

Offline Little Dalton

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Re: Early 3rd Model buttplate/sling swivels? Walnut stocks?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2023, 01:47:28 PM »
Thank you Boone! Excellent photos! Do you know if that peened swivel shank inside the nosecap has a washer, or no? Also, if that is your rifle, could I beg a measurement off of you? I need the distance from the heel of the buttplate to that rear swivel base. Many thanks again!
Jordan Goodwin, Blacksmith

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Re: Early 3rd Model buttplate/sling swivels? Walnut stocks?
« Reply #3 on: Today at 08:54:13 PM »

Offline Boone May

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Re: Early 3rd Model buttplate/sling swivels? Walnut stocks?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2023, 10:18:06 AM »
I have not seen the sling swivels removed from a rifle, but another collector said there is no washer.  Just peened over stud.

Here is a photo of the rifle listed above showing the distance from toe to the swivel.
"There are a few things they didn't tell me when I hired on with this outfit."

Offline Little Dalton

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Re: Early 3rd Model buttplate/sling swivels? Walnut stocks?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2023, 08:58:02 PM »
I have not seen the sling swivels removed from a rifle, but another collector said there is no washer.  Just peened over stud.

Here is a photo of the rifle listed above showing the distance from toe to the swivel.

Excellent! Thank you SO much! I also got an inside photo of the peened stud from a gent on the WACA forums. Boone, did you notice that one of the rifles ca. 1883 I linked to in the OP from an RIAC listing had sling eyes and fishhooks? Regardless, I'm going with the other style, just thought it was interesting. Apparently the sling for the military 1860 Henry also used a (brass) fishhook swivel on one end. Interesting stuff.
Jordan Goodwin, Blacksmith

 

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