16" vs 19" Carbine?

[Little Dalton]

I asked Jim Finch this question, and while I know better that to question his expertise, I just wanted to see if any of you fine fellows had any different experiences. I'm wondering if the Uberti 16" carbines in .44WCF can be made to hold 10 rounds in the tube and still feed reliably. Jim was skeptical, and said the spring would have to be shortened to the point it was very weak. But, he said he'd only ever worked on a couple of them. I am planning to get a carbine for the wife and kids to hunt and shoot with, may even shorten the buttstock just a hair. My older kids are 7 and 8 currently. The 16" seems like the best route to go, but not having handled either length in a long time, maybe there's not a huge difference in feel? I like the idea of the shorter gun, but really also like the option of 10 rounds in the tube in case we ever want to use the gun for CAS.

[wildman1]

You can get 10 .357s in a 16" carbine. I don't know about 44-40 in a 16".
wM1

[King Medallion]

I think that shortening a stock is not really a good idea. yes it may work for a year, but kids grow fast, and before you know it they are too tall and the stock is too short. maybe getting a different stock to shorten would be better, keeping the stock stock for when the younguns outgrow the short one.

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[Coffinmaker]

   Dalton 

I am honestly not sure.  I have built a few 16 inch "Trappers" for myself and customers.  Most based on .45 Colt rifles.  Same case length as a 44 WCF.  None of those rifles would accept 10 full length 45 Colt cartridges.  They either needed to be modified to run with Cowboy 45 Special or 45 Schofield cases.  Two were built on 44 Special donor rifles and would accept 10 44 Special cases.  Neither of the 44 Special rifles would run a full 10 rounds of Black Powder without fouling out.  They require annealed cases.

Based on your intended use and "possible" use, I would suggest at least 18 inch barrels and if you desire a Carbine, 19 inch barrel.  Those will accept 10 Cartridges.

I also agree with King Medallion.  If you plan to shorten a stock, buy an "extra" as a replacement or "sacrificial" stock.

Oh, HAVE FUN

[Abilene]

Okay, so here's the deal (sorta, maybe).  The Cimarron 16" trappers were different.  I don't know if they still are.  They have or had a proprietary spring that was very tapered on each end so it would collapse into itself, and a hollowed out end cap which gave you another 1/4" or so.  They were supposed to hold ten full size rounds.  I have one in 45 Colt.  It will hold ten full length (1.58") 45's, but the last round is very hard to load into the tube, and sits crooked on the carrier which prevents the carrier from rising.  Some Uberti '73's lack a bevel in the frame's carrier mortice at this point which can cause a jam, but in this case even with the bevel there the jam will happen.  The cure is/was to use a knife blade or what have you to straighten that round on the carrier.  Then it worked fine.  I shot a couple thousand 45 Colts through it that way, but then switched to Schofields just to make it easier to load the tube and eliminate the crooked round issue. 

So the answer to your question should be that yes, a 16" trapper from Cimarron will hold ten 44-40's.  BUT (the big butt), Uberti didn't always put those proprietary parts in the trappers and suddenly it won't hold ten.  And Cimarron almost never had those parts in stock.  I think the spec on those guns now says they hold 9, but I don't know if that is to keep people from complaining if theirs don't hold ten, or it holds ten but then jams, or what.  I would call Cimarron and ask if the trappers still have those parts so they will hold ten, but I'm not sure if anyone there will know.  Ask for Chip, he's been there the longest.

[Little Dalton]

Many thanks guys! That gives me a start- although there’s still doubt as to whether the trapper will hold ten. As to shortening the buttstock, I wasn’t planning on doing much at all, and I won’t do it at all if it proves unnecessary. I had heard that the LOP was actually an inch longer (14”) on carbines than the 13” if the rifles, but haven’t confirmed that. 13” on my rifle seems plenty short. The idea of an extra buttstock hasn’t been ruled out, and I also plan on refinishing the stock regardless. I’m leaning towards just getting the 19” carbine.

[Little Dalton]

Well guys, one year later and I have the carbine in hand! waited 8 months for it to come in, then had Jim Finch slick it up (NCOWS compliant though). If I could figure out how, I'd post some piccies. I did decide to go with Cimarron's 16" trapper, and I love it. And, guess what- it holds ten rounds of .44WCF in the tube no problemo. I also had it in hand less than 12 hours before -gasp- chopping a full inch off the butt. I know some of you will cringe, but I am super excited about it. I reshaped and refinished the stocks on my 24" rifle last year (did not alter LOP), and that helped me feel up to it. The LOP on the rifle is 13", while the carbine LOP was 13.5" from the factory. At 12.5", it is still plenty long enough to feel just fine to an adult (especially us smaller-framed models) and makes it light years better for the kiddos. Just makes a super sweet little package of a gun even more handy too. The only thing that really bugs me on these Ubertis (not enough to get a Miroku though) is the placement of the comb of the stock. It is one thing to refinish and take off wood where it is heavy, but it is another to need more wood. I've studied a lot of photos of nice original '73s as well as a couple in person, and while there may be some variation, generally the combs on the originals seem to be a bit lower and come a lot further forward towards the upper tang than the Ubertis. The comb on my 2020 rifle I estimate to be about 1/2" shy of where it should be, and this new Trapper carbine is closer to 1" shy- which amounts to a pretty serious aesthetic difference. One more reason I might just get some replacement american walnut stocks made at some point. Oh, and the weird flattop on the Uberti carbine's comb seems to be a departure from the original carbine as well- though I'm curious if that varied.

[King Medallion]

Nice. Funny, I feel most lever guns stocks are too short, for me, and either add wood or a cover with a spacer under niether to add to LOP.