Author Topic: Starr Carbine  (Read 507 times)

Offline Win 1876

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Starr Carbine
« on: July 31, 2022, 09:23:59 PM »
Hey everyone,

I found this old carbine at the local gun store today. It is a Starr carbine 1858 according to the receiver. There are a couple issues though. From my research the Starr carbine 1858 was a percussion breach loader loaded with paper cartridges. This carbine has a rimfire conversion. From my research the 1858 has a brass barrel band but this example has iron furniture. Could anyone let me know any information you have on this carbine?

-Win 1876

Offline Abilene

  • CAS-L Ghost Rider
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4141
    • Abilene's CAS Pages
  • SASS #: 27489
  • NCOWS #: 3958
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 693
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2022, 10:38:05 PM »
Sorry, I have no info, but c'mon, don't tease us with action pics, we want to see the whole carbine!  :)

Offline Win 1876

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2022, 05:49:29 AM »
Sadly I only got pictures of the identifying markings for this old carbine. Might be awhile till I head back to the store but when I do I’ll get some better pictures.  :)

Online DJ

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 345
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2022, 09:00:49 AM »
Something like five thousand Starr carbines were factory built in rimfire and shot Spencer ammunition.

Offline Trailrider

  • CAS-L Ghost Rider
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2315
    • Gunfighter Zone
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2022, 10:13:07 AM »
Most likely .56-56 Spencer, as the .56-50 wasn't developed until after the war.  Neat old piece!
Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider,
Bvt. Lt. Col. Commanding,
Southern District
Dept. of the Platte, GAF

Advertisers

  • Guest
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:59:17 PM »

Offline Cap'n Redneck

  • Commd'g Co. D, Frontier Batt'n, Texas Rangers.
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 198
  • Cap'n Redneck SWS #163.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2022, 10:33:08 AM »
From "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms", 9th. Edition, page 634-5;
(my comments in brackets)

Starr Cartridge Carbine.  Made by Starr Arms Co., Yonkers, New York.  Total quantity: 5.002.
The first 1000 were delivered by March 9th. 1865 and were issued to the Winchester, VA. Ordnance Depot at the end of the month.  By April 10th., 2.000 more carbines were received; the balance of the order completed by May 25th. 1865.  (The cartridge carbine evidently did not see action during the WBTS.)
.52 caliber rimfire. (same cartridge as .52-56 Spencer)
21" round barrel. 
Iron barrel band. (as opposed to the percussion Starr carbine, which had a brass barrel band.)
Buttplate and barrel blued, with casehardened lock and frame.
Walnut stock.
Sling ring mounted on left side of the breech.
Identical in most respects to its percussion predecessor, this model has a smaller, straight hammer.
Major markings are the same as on the percussion model, and serial numbers were continued from those arms.  The Starr company went out of business in 1867.

Values in 2007:    Good: $ 1.100,-        Fine:  $ 2.750,-

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peter Schiffers: "Civil War Carbines: Myth vs. Reality", pages 115 - 123 gives a good description of the percussion Starr carbine, its ammunition and practical use. 
Schiffers concludes that the bad reputation of the percussion Starr carbine during the WBTS was mainly due to two causes: 
- The original Starr linen cartridges lacked lubrication, thus causing excessive fouling and poor accuracy.
- The often substituted Sharps linen cartridges, while lubricated, could be pushed too far into the chamber of the Starr, causing misfires.
"As long as there's lead in the air, there's still hope..."
Frontiersman & Frontiersman Gunfighter: The only two categories where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s.

Offline Win 1876

  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2022, 02:22:38 PM »
Thanks for the information Cap’n Redneck,

So it is unlikely to be used in the Civil War due to it being manufactured  as a metallic cartridge carbine. Does anyone have any knowledge of how this carbine would have gotten into civilian hands? We’re they used in the Indian wars or surplussed after the WBTS? Is it possible to reload this round using the old mill out a rim and place a 22 rimfire blank instead of rim priming? Only doing this of course after safety testing? Finally does anyone know a current range of values for these carbines? I know it comes down to condition and I neglected to take pictures but a wide range of values will suffice if anyone knows.

-Win 1876

Online DJ

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 345
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2022, 06:13:04 PM »
I have read accounts of Starr carbines used in Indian Wars during the early post-civil war years.  No mention of whether they were percussion or rimfire, but I suspect some may have been rimfire.


Offline Major 2

  • "Still running against the wind"
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 14604
  • NCOWS #: 3032
  • GAF #: 785
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 223
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2022, 07:30:50 PM »
In the military trials in 1865, the Starr was not successful the US Army place no further orders.
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Delmonico

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 22998
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2022, 10:22:12 AM »
There was a paper cartridge one, before, supposedly.  It has never been proved or disproved but the story is The 1st Nebraska Cavalry was at least partly armed with those possibly private purchase when the left the state to draw more equipment at Ft Leavenworth.  They were to be sent back to the territory to guard the boarders and the overland trails.  There they were hijacked by some SOB named Fremont and sent into Missouri and Arkansas then Tennessee a very interesting story.  Used as dismounted cavalry they used the Springfield and no one knows what happened to the Stars if they existed.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Advertisers

  • Guest
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:59:17 PM »

Offline Books OToole

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 2631
  • Michael Tatham
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 74
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2022, 08:05:17 AM »
If I remember correctly; one or more companies of the 11th Kansas were armed with Stars.
(Co. I had Smith carbines.)


Books
G.I.L.S.

K.V.C.
N.C.O.W.S. 2279 - Senator
Hiram's Rangers C-3
G.A.F. 415
S.F.T.A.

Offline Drydock

  • MA1 USN ret. GAF #19, Colonel, Chief of Staff. BC, CC, SoM. SASS 1248 Life
  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4612
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Starr Carbine
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2022, 09:31:45 PM »
Rimfire Stars were issued out of the Winchester VA depot to the 12th Penn cavalry just before Appomatax.  Rimfire Stars were also issued to the 2nd US cavalry in late 1865, 436 rimfire Stars were rostered with the 2nd in june of 1866.  These were turned in for Spencers in September 1866.  No other issuance can be confirmed.   Almost all rimfire Stars were sold suplus in fall of 1868.  The last recording of rimfire Stars in inventory was 163 carbines in storage at the Cheyenne Ordnance Depot in September 1870.

Field reports from the 12 Penn and 2nd US were generally favorable, but the decision had been made to standardize on the Spencer and converted Sharps Carbines.

"Carbines of the US Cavalry, 1861-1905"  John D. McAulay.    An excellent book.  Much more detail than I can give here.
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2022 CAScity.com