1851 or 1861 ? That's the question pardner.

[Remington Kid]

 I'm new on here but not new to C&B or to most BP revolvers, pistols, rifles ,scatter guns or long toms. Hope you guy's don't mind me dropping in? I own 2 .44 remingtons and have for many years now and really love both of them. It took a while to tune them and get them just the way I wanted them to be but now they are a pure pleasurer to shoot and I never go in the woods without at least one of them.
Now I'm wanting to try out the 1851 or 1860 .36 Navy but can't decide which one to get. My wife said she will give me $250.00 for Christmas to buy the gun I want. We are retired and on somewhat of a budget but not broke....As long as she hides the check book
After doing alott of reading about the Navy's it's hard to figure which one would be better. I know the 51 is really a great Navy but I also hear that the 60 has some really good improvments.
Any of you have any suggestions or an openion on which one you would buy? Thanks for your openions and or suggestions.

[Sundance]

I originally wanted the 51, however - see my recent post I've ended up with a 61 .36 Sheriff and am very impressed with it.  Its sort of the streamlined up - dated version of the 51, loading lever is very sweet considering its so short.  Don't know how much they go for in the US here in the UK approx 155 pounds for the aforementioned, the standard barrel version is the same price as the Sheriff.  PIETTA the build quality is every bit as good as my EUROARMS .44 REMINGTON.

[Remington Kid]

Thanks Sundance, What are you shooting out of the Navy, conicals or balls and what powder and how much? Sorry for all the questions but trying to learn all I can before I buy, Thanks again. 

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[Tommy tornado]

I am partial to the 1851 Navy.  They are a bit cheaper than the '61, and tons of them were made before and during the Civil War.  I have two Uberti's and love them.  I usually shoot about 22 grains of 3fffg powder under roundballs.  With conicals I shoot about 18 grains of 3ffg.  The conicals can be a pain sometimes to get lined up to ram home straight.  However they do make better paper cartidges than roundballs (my opinion).

[Remington Kid]

Thanks Tommy, I have had other people tell me they prefer the 51 also.Cabellas has on for about $148.00 right now. It's the steel frame with the brass strap like the old ones.
Have you had any problems with the barrel wedge or with caps falling in the works?

[hellgate]

Remmie Kid,
I have a similar armament and then some (like 14 colts & Remingtons). If there is little or no difference in price between the '51 & '61 get the '61 (or one of each!!). I do not own a 36cal '51 but my forst "love" was & still is my Uberti '61 Navy that got me hooked on the C&Bs. The '61 is prettier than the '51 and has a slightly taller front sight. I like the creeping lever rather than the hinged one. Gen custer preferred the '61 but both are going to function the same and have the same malfunctions. I like the home cast 130gr conical from LEE but the .375-.380 ball really streaks out of the Navies. For Cowboy Action Matches I usually shoot the conicals in case of knowckdowns and a bit louder "ding". I used my '61 for jackrabbits, ground squirrels (backup to the .22), snakes and as a house gun. with the ball you can just about fill the chambers with Pyro P (25grs) and ram the ball home. This is a pretty stout load and likely exceeds 1000fps. The Remington Navy holds a little more powder than the Colt navies but the colts have them beat for looks any day. I happen to like the Uberti or ASM Navies because their grips are the same as the SAA and fit my hand better for a natural point. The Piettas cause the guns to point higher which requires me to bend my  wrist to shoot them.

[Mason Stillwell]

I got both. Like the 51's alot.They are great.  I do however like the look of the 61. Have 3 in 36 cal. WOW what a hoot to shoot.

It is a tossup . Kinda what mood I am in as to which gets took to the match.


No problems with the wedge and if one uses the tresco nipps and #11 cci caps nothing falls into the action

My $0.02 worth.
Mason

[Remington Kid]

Thanks for the replys folks, gives me plenty to think about before I buy. The 61's are running about $220.00- $250.00 depending on where you buy. The 51's are running $148.00- $180.00 from what I've found so far.
I like dealing with Cabelas and have for years. They have a great no-hassel attitude when it comes to returning there stuff and they will replace it or give back your money and always with curtisey. Don't see that much anymore  Thanks again , Mike

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Here's an ideee ... sweet talk your bride into $50 - $75 more and buy an 1851 (at the price you saw of $148) for each hand!

Or, pick the one that the looks appeal to ya best.  They're the same frame & cylinder, so the only difference will be looks.  (Different manufacturers could explain some of the difference, and they could feel different.  However, holding one of each from the same manufacturer ('51 & '61) will make you have to LOOK at what you're holding to tell the difference.)

By the way, I was one of Sundance's responders and I see he's made his choice and is happy with it.  My PERSONAL opinion is that the 1860/1861/1862 Colts are the hands down handsomest pistols ever made.

[44caliberkid]

I have multiple copies of each.  For some reason the '61's are more accurate.  There's no mechanical reason I can think of, maybe I just got lucky.  Mason Stillwell and I both recently obtained EMF Hartford 61 Navies, and are really pleased with them . Great out of the box finish and fit, sub 2" groups at 15 yards with ball.  Do a Google search for EMF's website, you can order direct from them, the 61's were on sale this summer for around $175.
   I use about 20 grains of 3f black powder and a round ball (.375) for all my 36's.  makes a good ding on the plate and still pretty accurate for CAStype shooting.  You might want to back down to 15 grains, and then Cream O wheat filler , till the ball sits just below the chamber mouth, for best accuracy, target shooting.
   Elmer Keith's book, Sixguns, says that Civil War veterans told him that .36 round ball and as much powder as you can get in the chamber and still seat the ball, was an excellent man-stopper.
   Defineitly use Tresso or Thunder Ridge nipples.  Smaller flash hole doesn't blow the caps back, plus they are a uniform size (dimension).  Also, on Colt pattern pistols, polish the hammer face and de-burr the safety slot in the hammer face. A rough surface can grab the fired cap, and pull it off, where it falls into the action.
   Only other clue is use lots of lube.  Slather up the cylinder pin, smear some on the cylinder face, smear a thin coat on the face and sides of the hammer, and grease over the balls.  I've never had a Colt C&B foul out or seize up and I shoot them in about eight matches a season, 100 rounds per match.

[Remington Kid]

Now this is the kind of site I like! Great info with out waiting a week for a reply and from guy's and gals who know what they are talking about.
The fine tunning is what I love to do and really take my time when I start into it.Just turn on the country and WESTERN music in my little heated and air conditioned work shop,put on a pot of coffee and go to work.
The idea that the 61 is much better looking is what I have heard from others also. Guess I'll have to look at more pics and go from there.No one in my area sells them at all. You may find a Remington or the new Ruger but that's about it.
Thanks again folks, Mike

[Mason Stillwell]

Yep 44 the Hartford 61 I got is about as well put together c&b as I have ever seen. Shot 125 rounds thru it before cleaning up at Payson with Cactus Cris as an innocent bystander who saw the whole thing LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come Winter Range I am gonna see if I can find it a Mate.

Ye HAAAAAAA I do Love that gun.

Did however shoot one FANTASTIC group with my brass frame 51's

Mason

[Remington Kid]

Cabelas has the case hardened all steel frame 61 for $209.00. Sure is a pretty little thang! 

[RRio]

Yep 44 the Hartford 61 I got is about as well put together c&b as I have ever seen. Shot 125 rounds thru it before cleaning up at Payson with Cactus Cris as an innocent bystander who saw the whole thing LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come Winter Range I am gonna see if I can find it a Mate.

Ye HAAAAAAA I do Love that gun.

Did however shoot one FANTASTIC group with my brass frame 51's

Mason

What's your loading particulars with that, Mason?

[Mason Stillwell]

I am using around 17 to 20 gr of 3F  Schotzen( spelling )  Powder and Tresco Nipps.No filler  on the 36 cal . Just powder boolit and lots of lube.

Nothing comes back and the shoot great groups.

Hope this helps

Mason

[Remington Kid]

Mason, Thanks for the info.Where are you buying the Tresco nipps ? I would like to oder them so I have everything ready when Santa gets here with the main .36.
I always liked dry wool/felt wads in my .44 Rem.3f Goex, dry wad with a little of my own lube just around the edge of the wad before I seat the ball. Seems to help keep the barrel cleaner or easier to clean anyway.

[hellgate]

Remmie Kid,
You can get either the Treso nipples or the equivalent to Uncle Mikes/Butler Cr stainless steel nipples from Thunder ridge Muzzleloading:  ( thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com  ) Both fit the Remington#10 caps perfectly. The Tresos seem to stick out a little further than the SS nipples which appear to be shorter. I have often shimmed short nipples by coiling a fine wire around an appropriate sized nail 8 or 10 times then clipping the coils. You get a bunch of split rings that can then be carefully pounded flat to the desired thickness to act as a shim to raise the nipple up if needed. I've made them from mild steel or bronze wire. Copper may be too soft. The smaller flash hole reduces blowback of the hammer and subsequent dropping of caps into the works. They also allow you to shoot heavier charges (or heavier projectiles) without as much blowback.

I suspect that some massive chainfires have occorred when the nipples protrude back too far (or the cylinder has worn deeper into brass framed guns) and the caps strike the recoil shield upon firing when the cylinder rocks rearward.

Have fun.

[Remington Kid]

Thanks Hellgate, Bought 24 extra nipples from Track of the wolf years ago when I got my .44 Remingtons and spair cylinder. they have been great and they seem to like the new Remington #10 perfectly.
I always used the German made #1075 before but the last two tins I bought were not very consistent at all so I tried the new Remington caps and they are great! Can't say they were very good a few years back but they sure are now. Haven't lost a cap in the works in about 400 rounds and I'm shooting .40 g of FFFg !
I'm wondering if the threads on my Remington cylinders are the same as the 61 Navy Colt. If they are then the nipps I have should work great.Thanks again, Mike

[44caliberkid]

EMF's website is:
www.emf-company.com

They currently list the 1861 Navy for $199.00

They are also having a special on the same gun witha conversion cylinder in 38 Long Colt for $369.90

Sounds like fun.

[Remington Kid]

Thanks for the info .44Caliberkid. I saved to my favorites and will do some more checking in the AM.