Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1873 => Topic started by: stuck_in_73 on February 12, 2022, 09:06:24 PM
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Hello all,
It’s been a minute and a half it seems like since I’ve been on this forum. 7 years to be exact. You fine people helped me along in choosing a couple of 73 rifles. Anyways, I’ll try to keep this somewhat brief. I bought my first Uberti 73 in 2014 and then a Miroku in early 2015. I love both rifles. 5 years ago I dropped my Uberti in my garage floor on the crescent plate and bent the tip of the butt plate while chipping the wood. After some time had passed wiping the tears from my eyes I had a buddy who is Crow Indian make me a leather butt stock cover (Shown in pics) to cover the damage. Anyways fast forward to this week. I ordered another butt stock from Taylor’s and fitted it to my gun today. I posted a few pics of my Winchester and Uberti. My question is how bad is the miss match of the new butt stock color/grain from Taylor’s to the original foregrip? I just couldn’t bare it anymore just knowing I had a chipped stock underneath the leather cover. There’s times I keep looking at the rifle and think it matches well and then under certain lighting it doesn’t. Thanks guys
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Pic 1
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Pic 2 & 3
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Pic 4
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My Miroku (my favorite)
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Stuck, tell you what, send me that ugly one and in a little while i'll have the forearm & stock matching scratch for scratch. Now understand,,,, i been known to "make a crowbar use oil". ::) (lol) That butt cover is very, very nice, your friend does beautiful work.
coffee's ready, Hootmix.
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Yeah he does good work. I’m gonna get a matching fore grip to solve my issue and just have a back up stock and fore grip to run with. I really like the new stock I got on the Uberti. I favor the grain over my original stock anyways.
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Yeah he does good work. I’m gonna get a matching fore grip to solve my issue and just have a back up stock and fore grip to run with. I really like the new stock I got on the Uberti. I favor the grain over my original stock anyways.
If you plan on using this for CAS, then note that leather forend covers are only allowed on shotguns and Henrys.
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I gotcha. I meant a new matching wood fore grip to go with my new butt stock. My leather cover is on the original butt stock covering the wood chip damage. I would love to join a CAS club. I believe they are all well over an hour away or more. I’m located in Southwest Missouri. It’d be a lot of fun!
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Just another thought. I stripped the finish from all of my Uberti rifles, then lightly stained them and finished it off with Tru-Oil. I think that it made them look much better while keeping any of the wood grain that was already present. It's altogether possible that if you refinished them, the wood would match. It was low-cost and provided an improved appearance. It's just another option to consider.
Here's a link with photos: https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=60543.msg719654#msg719654 (https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=60543.msg719654#msg719654)
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I gotcha. I meant a new matching wood fore grip to go with my new butt stock. My leather cover is on the original butt stock covering the wood chip damage. I would love to join a CAS club. I believe they are all well over an hour away or more. I’m located in Southwest Missouri. It’d be a lot of fun!
Oh, okay, I read it wrong and thought you wanted to cover it. Lots of Ubertis don't quite match front to back. But if the back is covered with the leather, the mismatch doesn't really show.
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Just another thought. I stripped the finish from all of my Uberti rifles, then lightly stained them and finished it off with Tru-Oil. I think that it made them look much better while keeping any of the wood grain that was already present. It's altogether possible that if you refinished them, the wood would match. It was low-cost and provided an improved appearance. It's just another option to consider.
Here's a link with photos: https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=60543.msg719654#msg719654 (https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=60543.msg719654#msg719654)
Griff,
What kind of stain did you do? I checked with Taylor’s and they only one fore end in stock and it doesn’t match my new butt stock. I’ve never refinish any rifle stocks and didn’t know how in depth it is. Thanks
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Griff,
What kind of stain did you do? I checked with Taylor’s and they only one fore end in stock and it doesn’t match my new butt stock. I’ve never refinish any rifle stocks and didn’t know how in depth it is. Thanks
When I stripped the finish off the wood, it was very light in color. I took some Fiebings dark brown leather dye and diluted it in rubbing alcohol. I started swabbing the wood down, letting it dry periodically to check the color until I had it the way I wanted it. Of all the guns that I did, I thought that my '73 came out the best. Each of the guns took differing amounts of dye depending on how dark the bare wood was. I'm not very experienced at this, so others may be able to add to the discussion.
I actually started with revolver grips which seemed like good practice:
https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=60412.msg718403#msg718403 (https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=60412.msg718403#msg718403)
Griff
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All Uberti wood that I have stripped (with Citristrip) was very light colored underneath. I used minwax dark walnut stain.
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I think I found a pretty good match on a fore grip end. Once I get it on I’ll post pics. If anyone has a good reference video or step-by-step guide to remove the fore end I’m all ears. I’ve never done it before so not sure how in depth it is. I could always keep the leather cover on my existing damaged butt stock but it drives me bonkers that it’s chipped and damaged. I could always refinish the wood as mentioned above but I honestly want that to be my last resort if need be. It’s a working gun so I’m not gonna complain too bad. I guess someone always has it worse. I seen on the FaceBook Winchester forum today that a guy had inherited a Winchester 92 and stuck it under his adjustable mattress and forgot it was there. I guess he adjusted his mattress and broke the butt stock in pieces. So he is trying to figure out what to do. So my conundrum pales in comparison. Lol.
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Well, stuck, years ago I saved instructions on removing the rifle forend from 3 different people. I will include them all and let you sort it out. :)
2008, manatee says:
I fiMd it easiest to remove the mag cap, spring & follower first. Then drive out the pin in the magazine band. Remove the screws in the forend cap. Slide the forend forward slightly and wiggle out the mag tube. Then the wood must come down and slightly forward. Careful you don't chip the dadoed (inletted) portion that is inserted in the receiver.
The screws can be a real bear. Be prepared to buy new ones.
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2005, Wistful McClintock says:
Remove the two screws holding the Forearm Cap. The Forearm Mounting Bracket is dovetailed to the barrel and held by the magazine tube. The magazine tube is held in place by a pin in the front magazine carrier. This pin must be removed and the magazine tube moved forward (or removed entirely) until the magazine tube clears the forearm Cap, at which time the Forearm Mounting Bracket should easily slide out, mine is very loose. Then the Forearm can be slid forward and removed.
The Magazine Tube may be tight where it fits into the Receiver. To remove mine, I unscrewed the Magazine End Plug enough to get a nylon punch to rest against the lip of the Plug and then tap on it until the Magazine Tube comes free of the Receiver. I would recommend that the Magazine Spring and the Magazine Follower be removed, before removing the Magazine Tube.
Be careful that you don’t scratch the Magazine Tube with the Forearm Cap when sliding either of them in or out, it is real easy to do. I was lucky in that my scratch occurred on a portion of the Tube that is cover by the Forearm.
There are three possible difficulties when putting everything back together.
The first being the Magazine Tube may not want to line up with the hole in the Receiver because of pressure from the Forearm Mounting Bracket or the Forearm itself, and instead butt up against the Receiver. I used a wooden dowel inserted into the Magazine Tube to help align the tube with the hole, a stout cleaning rod would probably work too, but I felt the wooden dowel would be less likely to scratch the inside of the tube. Once the tube is lined up with the hole, it will slip part way in, just tap it the rest of the way in, I used a wooden mallet so as not to mar the end of the tube.
Two, the screw holes on my Forearm Mounting Bracket are off center. It is a good idea to check this alignment before removing the piece, so that you get the bracket back on properly and the holes align with the holes in the Forearm Cap.
Three, notice that there is a small groove cut into the Magazine Tube that must align with the holes in the Magazine Tube Carrier that the pin that goes through. I found that the Magazine Tube could be turned fairly easily using the Magazine Plug and a wide screwdriver. Once you get the groove lined up with the pin hole, then tap in the pin.
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2007, Driftwood Johnson says:
The forend surounds the magazine tube. You cannot remove the forend until you slide the magazine tube forward enough to clear the forend, and remove the underlying dovetailed piece the forend cap screws into. Most of the exploded drawings available show carbines and they are useless for this task.
First, carefully remove the 2 screws in the forend cap. Be careful because they are short, and their threaded holes in the dovetailed piece underneath are easily cross threaded. They are often not screwed in perfectly perpendicular. For safey's sake, mark which screw came out of which hole. Then slide the forend cap forward. Again be careful, the fit against the magazine or barrel may be so tight that it mars the blue on the magazine or barrel. If it is a tight fit, it only needs to come forward enough to clear the underlying piece.
Now take a small punch and drive out the small horizontal pin holding the magazine in place in the forward magazine hanger. Do not marr the pin, or its slot in the magazine. That is all that keeps the magazine in place against recoil. Trust me on this. Once that pin has been removed the magazine can be slid forward. It may need a little persuasion to get it going. Be careful as you slide the magazine forward, the follower will be loose. It may stay in the receiver, it may come with the magazine. Don't loose the follower.
Once the magazine tube has cleared the forend you can slide the dovetailed piece under the forend cap out to one side. I dunno the name of this piece, it doesn't show up on the exploded digrams of the carbines. This piece may slide out easier to one side or the other, mine does. You can also remove the forend cap now, once the magazine clears it.
Now, the forend is finally free to remove. Slide it about 1/8" forward to release it from the relief in the frame. You may have to slide a knife between the rear of the forend and the frame to pry it loose. Be very careful, do not dent or chip the wood. Hopefully you can pull it forward just by hand. Once the forend comes forward off the frame, it will lift straight off. Now you can look and see how everything interlocks and why you have to remove all this stuff to get the forend off. If you want to remove the forward magazine hanger, it rotates in its dovetail, it does not drive out from the side.
This is a good oportunity to inspect your magazine spring for rust. Slide the magazine tube the rest of the way out, and slide out the spring. Clean it if necessary.
This all sounds very complicated, but it really isn't difficult. The key is, the magazine slides into the forend with a hole that envelopes the tube, so you have to get the magazine out of the way to get the wood off.
Reverse the procedure to reassesmble. Don't forget the follower, if you removed it.
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Stuck in 73, I know of at least 2 very active CAS groups in SW Missouri, around Springfield and Branson. And if you ever find yourself in North/Central Arkansas, come out and shoot with us at Outlaw Camp in Heber Springs.
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Ok so my new fore end came in from VTI today and well,…it doesn’t match. Lol. The pictures the gentleman sent me in Connecticut of the fore end and the pics I had of my rifle I thought it was a close match. Well I want wrong. With wood especially pictures can be deceiving especially on different lighting ect. Anyways, I posted some pics of the new stock and fore end for you guys to see. I really think I’m going to get some stripper and redo the stocks. The good thing is the grain looks great on the new woods but I’m going to go down the road if refinishing. I posted my original stocks back on my rifle. I’ll leave it as is and I’ll have a side project to refinish the wood. I could send the stock and fore end back but there is shipping costs along with a 30% restocking fee. So I’m just going to keep the wood as backups. For the guys who’ve refinished their Uberti stocks what color matches the original Winchester’s the most? Also after stripping the wood is there sanding to do to get the original color off the wood? I really don’t want to have to sand.
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Longshot Logan has passed on but his refinishing article remains.
https://gungiveaways.com/1873-uberti-shoulder-stock-refinishing/
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I didn't do any significant sanding. I did use OOOO steel wool in the finishing process. I recommend re-reading my old post for some details (https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=60543.msg719654#msg719654 (https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=60543.msg719654#msg719654)). I do recommend Citristrip. It takes a little bit of time and labor to get through the hard Uberti finish, but it's relatively pleasant to work with and it does work.
I entered the project with a certain amount of fear. I am far from being a handyman, but I'm pleased with the results and very glad that I gave it a shot.
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Thanks for the info guys. I will say I have a tad bit of fear entering the process of refinishing. I’ll give the article a read to reference and also your past post Griff. Thank you.
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So I’m working on my stock and have it pretty well stripped with Citristrip. The stuff works well I might add. My question is how to get the rest of the stain off without having to sand? I really don’t want to have to apply any sandpaper to the stock or fore end if I can help it? Would mineral spirits with 00 and 0000 steel wool do the trick over time? Thanks
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Good job taking the risk. If you're like me, you were pretty nervous getting started...
When I got to the stage where you are now, I just kept using more Citristrip. I left it on the wood to do its work and kept scraping until I got all of the finish off. I ended up having to use a metal putty knife in places. I really wanted to avoid sanding because it would potentially change the geometry of the stock. Eventually it all came off, although on one of my stocks there is a tiny spot that I just couldn't get off. Ultimately it isn't noticeable, though.
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After a couple more applications of Citristrip and minerals spirits with 0000 steel wool I believe I have it completely down to bare European walnut. I’m here in Missouri so I think I’ll wait until next weekend when the weather warms up to stain a walnut brown. I might fiddle with the right shade of walnut with the right amount of water. I’ll try and match my Miroku 73’s wood if I can. I’m trying to be the coolest doctor on the block and have lots of patience with this entire process. I want to do it right. So far I’m happy with the results up to this point. Again, thanks for the pointers and tips with the articles and such shared. ;D
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Here is the first stock I did. It was a cracked stock I saved from the trash bin to practice on. I used MinWax Special Walnut (I think?) stain on this one, followed by many applications of Formby's low gloss tung oil. On subsequent refinishes, I used MinWax Dark Walnut stain.
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Stuck_in_73, it looks like your efforts are paying off. That wood actually looks pretty nice. You're taking it slowly and being careful, which I believe will yield great results.
Griff
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Here is the first stock I did. It was a cracked stock I saved from the trash bin to practice on. I used MinWax Special Walnut (I think?) stain on this one, followed by many applications of Formby's low gloss tung oil. On subsequent refinishes, I used MinWax Dark Walnut stain.
That looks good Abilene. The tiger stripes in that stock look amazing. Too bad it is a cracked stock.
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I was able to get a coat of stain on the stocks today. I will apply another coat (possibly last) tomorrow. Taking my son to The Batman movie tonight so I wanted to get some stain on before the movies without rushing at all. I used a tack cloth on the bare wood before the stain. I bought a 3lb bag of t-shirt lint free squares on Amazon to apply the stain. Hopefully next week I’ll be able to apply the Birchwood Casey Sealer/Filler to seal the grain. Then I’ll apply Tru-Oil. This will be probably a few weeks process as I’m going to take my time. Just wanted to document my progress and share. ;D
**I shared an iCloud link for the photos because I seem to have to compromise quality of the photos so they load. I’m hoping this link will show HD quality photos. Let me know if the link doesn’t work. Thanks
https://share.icloud.com/photos/068-FMiHhDMpJuw_EGVmXj-0w
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The link works for me using my Android phone.
Thanks for the update! It's a good idea to take it slowly you are more likely to get, as they say, a harmonious outcome. I think that you will be pleased with the results. I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks when it's finished! Good job!
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Quick update: I applied about 5 coats of Pilkington Pre-64 stain. Then applied one coat of Birchwood Casey Sealer/Filler as pictured in the iCloud link. I’m hoping for 2 more coats of sealer to fill the pores and onto the Tru-Oil. I was going to run with the brown walnut water-based stain that came with the Birchwood Casey kit but pulled a quick audible and ordered some Pilkington’s stain off Brownells. It is pretty pricey but the wood took it great and I’m loving the color. I really want that Turnbull color as my other 73’ Miroku is a true walnut color. And this stain gets close. I’ll keep posting my progress in hopes it may help someone else sometime as you guys helped me along. I did a lot of reading and watching refinishing videos before I started to help along and kinda put everything together. But what I’m gathering the biggest influence in refinishing a gunstock is PATIENCE! ::)
PICTURES
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0dbbor_SS7srpaL9VrTxG9Eyg
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Man that is looking NICE. Keep us posted.
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Thanks for the update. That's looking really good! A bit of time and money investment is certainly paying off.
Griff
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Looking Good!
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So big hiccup in the refinishing process. I applied the 2nd coat of Birchwood Casey sealer and filler and I guess it’s stripping off the Pilkington’s spirit stain. It’s leaving streaks and lightening it up a lot. So I have to punt. I’m stripping the wood again and back to square one. Does anyone know what I can apply to this stain for a finish that won’t pull it out? I found a review after the fact on Midway USA on the Pilkington’s English Red Spirit stain that the Birchwood Casey sealer and filler did the same thing to his wood. Also he tried skipping the sealer and went to tru-oil and same results. Im at a loss. I was wanting a high gloss finish that’s why I wanted to resort to Tru-Oil but it doesn’t do well with the Pilkington’s I guess. I seen there is Kay’s Pre 64 Winchester Linseed oil but that will more than likely give a satin finish. Which I’m not opposed too. :(
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I'm not familiar with Pilkington’s spirit stain having never used it...
I have used True Oil and boiled Linseed oil on stocks.
However, now I use and prefer Skidmore's https://skidmores.com/product-category/wood/