Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Cas City Historical Society => Topic started by: Willie Dixon on December 20, 2008, 01:49:51 PM
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Hey All,
I could really use your help when it comes to accurately re-enacting William "Billy" Dixon. He's my third great uncle, and my avatar is a picture of him.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a8/Billydixon.jpg)
basicall, I know there is a book about him, but what I'd like help with is this picture. My uncle looks just like Uncle Billy, and he and I both would like to re-create that outfit in that picture. As of what we know right now is that this picture was taken while he was an Army Scout in the Texas Territory. If anyone is good with looking at these pictures and knowing what that coat is made out of, that'd be awesome, or maybe even what type of coat that is, same with the vest, it'd be really helpful.
I make my own patterns, usually basing them off of a single picture, so I can make the coat, worst case, no problem, it's just what's the material? wool? canvas? sheep? buffalo?
right now, here's my ideas on the colors:
white shirt with separate notched color with a big plumed red or blue tie
dark color vest, such as a blue or brown
guessing khaki slacks
and a dark gray or brown coat
does that sound about right? Any help would be most appreciated and thanks in advance, I just want to do my Uncle justice.
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Remember - there would be two versions of your GGG Uncle - the 'regular' one - in normal working attire - and the 'dandified' one for a photo session, as this one seems to be.
Often, a photographer of the day would supply various items for the session, so there's the chance that he didn't own all of the things pictured.
If you look in the 'back pages' in this Forum and in the 'NCOWS' forum - specifically, the ones dealing with 'Creating Your Impression' - you'll find a number of things of interest that'll help your own project.
All fabrics of the time were natural - wool, cotton, linsey-woolsey, nankeen, duck, etc - so stick with those.
Patterns are available, and several folks have recommended them, so you'll find those in the 'back pages' as well.
(Most of the subject headings are descriptive of the thread - it shouldn't take you long to get on the right track.)
There might be someone who has a better reproduction of this photo who'll chime in - and I'm sure that that'll be a blessing.
Good Luck!
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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Based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the fabrics used for men's clothing in that timeframe, I'd say both the coat and vest were most likely wool ....
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thanks for that quick help, I'm starting to look through those threads as we speak. I understand all about the "authentic look" as I have a period 1680's Pirate Gentleman's outfit that makes people gawk and stare, my mom and I made all of it from scratch, even the hat.
I actually was wanting more than one outfit myself, a working attire (more of a rancher look maybe) and a dress look like seen in the movie Tombstone (gunslinger with shoulder holster, etc) with the three piece suit, brightly colored ties and vests, with a nice frock coat.
and here's a coat that I can copy the pattern of, make it out of sherpa and wool, very warm and the same color as the hat/boots!
(http://www.texasjacks.com/coats/images/58TrailJacket.jpg)
let me know your honest opinions. basically there is a playstation game called GUN and it's awesome, have it for five years, probably beaten it 30+ times, awesome fantasy cowboy action game, and there is a buffalo hunter look the hero wears, always wanted his hat, vest, coat and boots, very similar to these.
I'll post up drawings for the vest and coat if you guys think this will work. I'm just going for buffalo hunter inspired, it's soo comfy with denim slacks or even the real frill pants! that and I've always been a Davey Crocket fan too.
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If you're striving for period authenticity, then the coat's all right - the rest - not so much.
Both moccasins are suede and have hard soles - originals didn't - and leather hats are reminiscent of the ones worn by the Hippies in the '60's.
They'd all probably be fine if you're looking for a 'Silver Screen' outfit, but if you are, then you're looking in the wrong forums.
Go to your local Public Library and check out a copy of the Time-Life book - 'The Scouts' and while you're at it, look at the other titles in the series 'The Old West' to see what men actually wore during the era - you can't go wrong, using that as a start point for research.
Scouts Out!
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Garavaglia and Worman's fine book - 'Firearms of the American West - 1866-1894' - shows Billy Dixon's personal rifle as being a Springfield Officer's Model Rifle - a .45-70 trapdoor - on page 135.
According to the above, he made his famous shot at Adobe Walls with a borrowed .50-90 Sharps at 1538 yards.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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thanks for that help!
basically I was just thinking of the mochassins and hat from a buffalo hunter that made those from kills. just an idea, since I already have the hat.
okay, there went that idea then... LOL
I'll just play it safe and grab some nice boots, a shirt, slacks, vest, frock coat, and a hat like Kurt Russel wore in Tombstone. seems like the dressier look like in the photo is easier to find anyways.
thanks again!
alrighty, I've got a basic idea for my outfit and I'd like to share it with you all, and make sure it looks authentic and works well.
basically I've decided the vest and the jacket are probably made out of the same material. Funny thing is that the vest doesn't look to have lapels and that became an interesting search... turns out it is probably a standard military vest, which it would then also make sense the coat would be the same and then it looks like khaki slacks... so without further ado:
shirt
(http://www.wwmerc.com/mas_assets/full/CM5484.jpg)
vest
(http://www.wwmerc.com/mas_assets/full/CM61.jpg)
coat
(http://www.wwmerc.com/mas_assets/full/CM91.jpg)
slacks
(http://www.wwmerc.com/mas_assets/full/CM834.jpg)
hat
(http://www.limpiacreekhats.com/images/BigHats/gambler.jpg)
and hehehe
holster that will also have some subtle extras, I'm having this custom made so I can help with the process but this is the main inspiration for the holster
(http://www.frontiergunleather.com/ima/products/catalog/100.jpg)
what I'd like to know is just to double check that it would look good, similar to the picture, and most importantly period correct for the time the picture was taken probably around 1875... and I'm also kind of hoping that maybe most of it would work for around the 1890s as well, that's why I picked more conservative, traditional attire, because I can't be a NCOWS member that dresses the part of the 1870s and carry a 1894 Marlin! Doh!
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The buffalo hunter bought his outfit in town - maybe having his Sharps special-ordered and mailed to him at a railhead.
Moccasins and fringed or Buffalo-hide coats would've been Native-made - and would've been sturdy footgear - 'not' what was pictured.
The trousers, shirt and coat are fine for the time frame - men's clothing never changed much - look for square-toed boots, and get a tall pair.
You can change eras by tucking your pantlegs inside for an earlier Impression - outside for a later one, or for a 'town' Impression.
The hat style was popularized in 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' and other Silver Screen epics - the style of the mid-to-late 1870's features a far different crown, and those styles can be viewed if you look at that Time-Life sreies.
The rig is from the late 1890's - built by El Paso Saddlery (and probably others) - and a holster from that time frame would be more likely to be a Slim Jim or feature a Mexican Loop.
'Tombstone' was supplied by a number of outfitters - 'WAH Maker Clothing' being one of the larger ones.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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I have a book, The Encyclopedia of the buffalo hunters volume one A-D that I would recommend, it has
a section on Billy and lots of pictures and info on that period. For clothing info I would suggest
River juntion trade co. catalog, it has lots of pictures and dates. The owner Jim Boeke is very knowledable
on this stuff (563) 873-2387,
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In "Encyclopedia of Buffalo Hunters & Skinners" Vol. I there is a photo of Dixon in the field in normal attire. His face looks half burnt off from the sun and he's wearing a checked shirt I believe.
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Cool thanks everyone. that encyclopedia sounds awesome!
Fox, that's awesome!
I'll try to find that book somewhere, worst case on Amazon!
I actually got those pictures from River Junction I believe, I know they are WAH maker though. Also the hat look I want is similar to what Virgil Earp (Sam Elliot) wore except more in that lighter bone/nut/cream color like Duke.
(http://www.lazydork.com/movies/tombstone.jpg)
I'll know the hat when I buy it, I won't buy one without seeing it first, I have to hold it and try it on, I have a big head, and I like seeing it in person. Same thing with the boots too.
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I have a copy of the book "The Life of Billy Dixon" written by Olive K. Dixon, but it's been several years since I've last looked at it.
A few minutes ago, prompted by seeing this, I did go pick it up and browse through it briefly.
What I noticed were a few passages in which Dixon describes using Sharps Rifles, both his own and some "borrowed".
He mentions losing his when his wagon got washed away crossing the Canadian River just prior to the Adobe Walls Battle.
In one instance he refers to using a "Round Barrelled Sharps" loaned to him that would have been the ecconomy "Business Rifle".
Apparently his Buffalo Hunting was done mostly during the period when both the .44 (.44-77) and the "Big 50" (.50-2-1/2") caliber Sharps were in vogue. This would have been a couple of years before Sharps brought out the .45-110
To my mind there's no doubt that Dixon was foremost a Rifleman.
I didn't see any mention of any Springfield Trapdoors, although that was a common rifle in those days and there's nothing to say that he might not have owned one at sometime in his life. The special ordered "Officer's Model" was a desireable lightweight .45-70 rifle that served well for Big Game hunting where only a few shots were needed.
I didn't find any reference to him using or carrying revolvers, again, that doesn't mean that he didn't, just that I didn't find any reference to it in the index.
As far as your clothing is concerned, for "Town Clothes" it looks like that coat and trousers you show have it nailed although I'd agree that he's wearing a lighter colored pair of trousers in the photo.
As far as hats are concerned most Buffalo Hunters were out just prior to Stetson's introduction of the "Boss of the Plains" hat that became referred to and famous as a "Cowboy Hat". From images and drawings I've seen they generally wore somewhat of a wool slouch hat, which I believe was common amongst many Confederate troops during the Civil War? Their hats typically looked somewhat like these
http://www.clearwaterhats.com/civilwar1.htm
http://www.clearwaterhats.com/oldwest4.htm
http://www.clearwaterhats.com/oldwest1.htm
During the winter hunting months, wearing a "Trooper" style fur hat would probably have been common, possibly made out of Beaver.
Clothing would have probably consisted of tan "Duckins" for trousers and maybe similar styled trousers made of Wool during the winter, tall boots coming up just below the knee with "squarish" toes, not really heavy square toed nor pointy as are modern cowboy boots. A muslin shirt, often of the pullover variety was commonly worn. This would have all be worn with wool longjohns on underneath in the winter time when out hunting. It would have all been topped off with a heavy wool or possibly a Buffalo Robe coat for warmth, similar to these.
http://www.millvalleyleather.com/Mens-Buffalo-Fur-Coats_c_9.html (you'll notice the price has gone UP on these! ;D )
IF a hunter were to carry a revolver, it would most likely be a Colt Conversion or '72 Open Top, it would have been carried in a holster similar to many of the earlier styles seen here.
http://www.oldwestreproductions.com/_System/_DeluxeStore/ProductList.asp?Category=Old+West+Holsters
From what I know of this, this would probably be a pretty accurate description of what "typical" Buffalo Hunters would have worn.
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Dude!! you found my hat! that's awesome! that's exactly the hat I was talking about! I hate the "cowboy" hat, it just doesn't look good on me, and I loved the hats in Tombstone. The only thing is that I'm a huge Duke fan (who isn't?!) so I'd like it to be that creamish color instead! thanks for the awesome link! great price too!
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Dude!! you found my hat! that's awesome! that's exactly the hat I was talking about! I hate the "cowboy" hat, it just doesn't look good on me, and I loved the hats in Tombstone. The only thing is that I'm a huge Duke fan (who isn't?!) so I'd like it to be that creamish color instead! thanks for the awesome link! great price too!
Hey glad you like it! (I do too!)
In fact if you want to see it in a real "pretty" color take a look here on this page of the small picture of Jude Law wearing one of these in "Pecan" (I LIKE that!)
http://www.clearwaterhats.com/
Remember you GGG Uncle Billy lived for a long period of time and styles did change as things progressed into the 1900s.
Depending on when and WHERE he was to be seen he might have also worn either a Derby, a Bowler, or a (low) Top Hat, all of which were common "around town" hats back then, more so than we recognize these days.
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(http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo129/Boge_1960/IMG_0069.jpg)
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Fox Creek, thank you so much for scanning in that picture! It's awesome, totally what I was thinking about going for when it came to his "normal" attire, I just wasn't sure. But I figured since he was an Army Cavalry Scout, and the 58 pilots today still wear similar duds and hats, I was thinking about it. Awesome picture.. thank you so much.
Grogan, I had seen Clearwater before, I was just looking at the wrong categories! When I clicked your link I was apprehensive at best but then I saw the pic and saw it was under "Civil War hats" and I was like Dag Narbit!!
thanks everyone for your help so far, anything else you can think of, please, don't hesitate to put it here. I'd like to re-create my GGG Uncle, but I'm also working on an alias name of Willie "California Creek" Dixon, named after him and my cousin/mentor Willie Dunne who was a Secret Service Agent. Califronia Creek because I live right next to the Santa Ana "River". Born and raised.
thanks again for all the help.
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OK, so I've been searching around as well, and going off of that picture and the requirements for CAS, I think I have come up with the firearms that I am going to buy to begin with:
1858 Remington Model C&B .44s - I have a lot of experience with C&B thanks to my pirate group and I think these will be great, I love the look, and my gunsmith friend (also pirate... trying to get him here!) says he can work on them no problem and show me how.
1865 Spencer Carbine - just love that gun, looks like a Sharps in a way, but has the fast reloading!
then probably a nice Stoeger coach gun for the shotgun.
unfortunately I have to order the Spencer in 44-40, 45 LC or 45 schoefield b/c it has to be a pistol caliber.
so, do these sound about right for him? I also picture my GGGUncle as a rifleman, master tracker, very good at stealth and stalking prey, the fight where he won the medal, he had to be an awesome rider and very fast/quiet. That story is more impressive to me than the "shot of the century." I guess that's where I get the rifle "problem" from... lol, I only want those two pistols, and a pair of USFA SAAs, a buntline special (yeah right), and just the one shotgun! The rest of my dreamsheet is all filled with Browning, Winchester, Sharps, Spencer and Springfield!
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...unfortunately I have to order the Spencer in 44-40, 45 LC or 45 schoefield b/c it has to be a pistol caliber...
Why not 56-50? SASS allows it now as do almost all NCOWS posses? ???
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OMG! the 56-50 is a "pistol" round? That's awesome! I was hoping for just that reply! Alright! Nevermind! I'm going with the 56-50! Talk about a cannon! hehehe.
I just figured because it was so big, being a 56 cal there was no way. That and what's the difference between like a 45 long colt and the 45-75 gov't model? I really don't know that much about bullets, just 45 ACP and 7.62mm. Thanks!
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Go to the Spencer Shooting Society for the "skinny". .56-50 is not a "pistol" calibre, but is an exception for CAS, I believe. It may be faster to load with the tubes, but the separate cocking action makes it slower to shoot. Most stages have 10 shots, which is more than the Spencer can hold. Too many reloads on the clock.
Good style points if it fits your persona, but the Henry is its contemporary.
And; A lot faster!
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From the current SASS Shooter's Handbook, regarding Main Match rifles (emphasis added .....)
"Must be in a caliber commonly available in revolvers. Examples include, but are not limited to, .32-20, .32 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .38-40, .44-40, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 Colt. The only allowed exceptions are the .25-20 and .56-50. No rifle calibers such as .30-30 or .38-55 are allowed."
;D
(http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/RO/SASSHandbook(14).pdf)
Big difference between .45 Colt and .45-70 - standard loadings were - 250 grain (or less) bullet .452" to .454" in diameter, over 35-40 grains black powder for the .45 Colt .... 405 grain (or more) bullet .457" to .459" diameter over 70 grains black powder for the .45-70.
I agree that you may get annoyed with the relative slowness of a Spencer as a main match rifle, although the 'style points' would certainly be very substantial ...... Another rifle which you may want to consider for a persona in the time-frame shortly after the Civil War is the "Improved Henry - i.e. the Model 1866 Winchester .....
(http://members.memlane.com/gromboug/rjr66clr.jpg)
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Might not the TTN coach gun be a better choice because of the exposed hammers? I'm under the impression that hammerless shotguns appeared after the era you're honing in on.
BP
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I love the Henry, it just seems my GGGUncle would have liked the Spencer considering the similarities between it and the Sharps. Don't worry about the speed factor, I'll be buying an 1895 Marlin Cowboy first in 45LC, I'm going for budget first, and then "happies" second.
And I love rifles, I may own probably 5 or 6 pistols and 1 shotgun and be happy with those, but rifles, man oh man, I probably will never stop. Already have an M1 Garand passed down from my grandfather, an M4, SIG 552, and M14... lots of modern firepower, I just never got into the levers because I don't go hunting and a lever isn't that great for my "job"... then I found CAS!!! Now it just opened up a big barn door excuse for me to buy any and all I like!
Also, definitely to start out with, I'm not really going for speed, just safety and accuracy, the speed will come later like in all things. Style to me means more than speed. I'm going with "holy" black anyways and full shots/loads... I'm young, and I like the feeling.
So... here's my idea for my first set of SASS - ready gear:
rifle:
(http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Images/photo_1894_45Colt.jpg)
pistols:
(http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/SS1039.jpg)
going to take off the crappy adjustable sights, just don't look right!
(http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/RH0875.JPG)
shotgun:
(http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/images/coach_supreme_large_nickel_blue.jpg)
the only problem is that the Marlin looks and seems waaaay too advanced for the Remingtons! But that's alright for a starter I guess, I can get three of those Marlins for the price of one Spencer... rrrg why do the sweet guns have to be expensive!?
I'm also going to get a big .50 Sharps as well, for obvious reasons.
let me know what you think of this combo, I'm all good for the cap and ball and I know their nuances from my Pirating group, the cap and ball revolver is really high-tech next to my "custom" home-made harper's ferry!
and I love the exposed hammer shotguns, the only thing is that Stoeger is American made, good quality, great price, and I won't be using it that much and I'm not a fan of shotguns. I'm a rifle kind of guy. If you could find me a reasonably priced exposed hammer shotty instead with those same qualities, I'm in.
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Stoeger imported the coach gun from Brazil as recently as 2001. Don't know if this has changed since Benelli entered the picture.
BP
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Another thought, for what it may be worth - except for some war-expedient Confederate (and other) "low-cost" copies, brass-framed big-bore revolvers weren't made back then, and most definitely were never included by either Remington or Colt in their product lines. The many brass-framed replicas you see nowadays are "economy" firearms (.... though perhaps that is your reason for thinking of them ....). They are not "historically correct" and, lastly but perhaps most importantly, are not particularly durable ....especially under the rates of fire they would be subjected to as CAS revolvers.
In the long run, you would be much better off getting steel-framed Remington revolvers.. I am a fan of the Remington designs .... one of my favorite CAS sets is a pair of Model 1875 replicas, to which I added the lanyard rings which were common on the originals but apparently never offered by any of the present-day replica manufacturers .... except on the Model 1890 Remington - 'replacement parts' for which provided the rings and swivels for my modification -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Cowboy/75rem03.jpg)
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Merry Christmas Pards;
I'm with RSJ; I'd avoid brass frame revolvers. I think the Marlin '94 is ok to start, and it will always be there as a backup and utility gun. My choice for starter revolvers would be Ruger NMVs for durability (made in USA!) or Remington clones, either NMAs or cartridge guns.
I don't think there are many, if any, hammer guns actually made in the US.
I'd also suggest you contact the local CAS shooters, or go to a few shoots. You might find used equipment, and a lot of good advice. Most of us have gone through several sets of gear before settling down to what we could have really used from the first. It is great to get advice before laying down that money belt full of double eagles
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thanks for the help.
I'm a pirate guy, so the c&b doesn't frighten me at all, and for the price it can't really be beat. I liked the brass because they were "pretty" but thanks for letting me know about their tolerances, because I had heard about that elsewhere. I'll pick up some happy iron ones first then and purchase these as my pretties later.
I pretty much gave up on finding USA made firearms. All of today's USA makers only care about the broadest market, thanks to massive conglomerates controlling them, I guess. I saw that after Bernelli bought Stoeger on their website it says "Made in USA" now what that means, who knows, but it is nice to think about. I could have had a Winchester '73 Model with the big loop lever for only 300 bucks, brand new, but it had "Made in Japan" all over it!
So basically I've given up, and I'm going to buy my fantasy guns, then research their real stamps, and engrave that in them. I won't ever claim they are real, but at least they'll look it!
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Actually, there were a lot of hammer doubles made in the US. One of the earliest was Parker Bros. who were in operation by the end of the ACW. Few were produced prior to the late 1780's, but you can still find them on the auction sites. Remington, Stevens, Ithaca, and Colt also made hammer doubles. And so did a myriad of other, lesser know companies.
There were great numbers of Belgian and British hammer doubles imported as well.
In my "OLD" [5th edition] Flayderman he states that "By the 1860's improved versions [double-barrels] were utilizing centerfire, self-contained cartridges. Hammerless models were introduced in the late 1870's.' - p,595 "Although the hammer type doubles are earlier and for man years seemed to be i greater demand and to fetch slightly higher values than comparable hammerless types, it is readily apparent that such conditions no longer exist." p. 591
From "The PEACEMAKERS" "The Army also ordered double-barrel shotguns by various makers, including the renowned Parker. Some of these arms were intended for dealing with road agents, and thus were 'for use with Escorts for Paymasters.' Officers sometimes ordered shotguns on their own. With the 25 percent discount available to them from the Colt company there was incentive to order the Model 1878 hammer gun or the 1883 hammerless, both side-by-side doubles."
Golly gee, it's great to have some books right next to the 'puter!! ;) ;D ::) ;D
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thanks for that info doc. Too bad the sawed-off version of them like in 3:10 to Yuma (even though that was a Remington I think) isn't allowed, reminds me of my .70 cal blunderbuss!
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..... Too bad the sawed-off version ..... isn't allowed .....
Look what just came on the market, and can be quite legally purchased and owned, up here in Canada ;D ....
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Guns%20Misc/DominionArmsOutlaw.jpg)
'Dominion Arms Outlaw' - 12 ga external hammer double with 14" barrels, just brought on the market for Can$299 (about US$245 at current exchange rates) ......
One of the odd loopholes in our firearms laws is that, although it is illegal to shorten an existing rifle or shotgun barrel to less than 457mm (18") or to shorten either type of firearm to an overall length of less than 660mm (26"), in the case of newly manufactured rifles or shotguns only the overall length restriction applies!
::) ??? :-\
Regrettably .... as I understand it .... an absolute no-no in the United States! :'(
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RJ, that'll be good to take to the outhouse in the Winter up there in Canada just in case of snow snakes. ;)
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man, that's exactly what I'm talking about!
that's why I love my 'buss! she's technically legal, and with double shot of powder... 3 50 cal. balls, and two loads of copper cased buck shot... yeah, bye bye target! I need to take some pics of it at night, it's a flamethrower too! from 15 feet away, the target had burn marks on it!
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Yes, flintlocks and other muzzle-stuffers can be rather "awe-inspiring" at night! :o
"Bess" and I ..... "some years ago" ....
(http://members.memlane.com/gromboug/flash.jpg)
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LMAO! ;D
that's awesome! what cal musket is that? my pic right now is of me doing a hip shot with the camera quick enough to get a blurred shot of the load, then a shot of the hay obliterated, and another of me on my back! LOL
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Reproduction British Short Land Pattern musket of the American Revolutionary War era..... commonly referred to as the "Brown Bess" ..... 11 bore (.75 caliber).
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/shortland1-1.jpg)
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hehe, I thought that's what you meant by "bess"! nice!
so, in your knowledgeable opinion on the subject of my GGGUncle Billy, as a rifleman, do you think a Spencer would work?
I like it in that it's somewhat inspired by the Sharps and is unique it seems on the "fields of battle" aka the range.
or would a Springfield be better?
I love lever actions and will purchase a Marlin first, but then following I have a massive dream list of rifles I have no problem pursuing, just what would work best for Billy Dixon that I could shoot regularly. I plan on the Sharps as well, but it's be regulated pretty much only to the long range category. where it should be.
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hehe, I thought that's what you meant by "bess"! nice!
so, in your knowledgeable opinion on the subject of my GGGUncle Billy, as a rifleman, do you think a Spencer would work?
I like it in that it's somewhat inspired by the Sharps and is unique it seems on the "fields of battle" aka the range.
or would a Springfield be better?
I love lever actions and will purchase a Marlin first, but then following I have a massive dream list of rifles I have no problem pursuing, just what would work best for Billy Dixon that I could shoot regularly. I plan on the Sharps as well, but it's be regulated pretty much only to the long range category. where it should be.
I'm thinking that for a Single Shot "carry rifle" either a Springfield Trapdoor Carbine in .45-70 or a Sharps '74 Carbine in either .50-70 or .45-70 would certainly be period correct. In fact so would a Remington Rolling Block Carbine in either one of those calibers (all of those were common amongst U.S. Gov't Scouts). (http://thumb6.webshots.net/s/thumb1/3/67/22/160236722TZgnuT_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1160236722029466406TZgnuT)(http://thumb6.webshots.net/s/thumb3/6/33/40/41263340sXxnJU_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1041263340029466406sXxnJU)
Of course for CAS Main Match rifles a '66 Winchester would be VERY Period correct in either Rifle or Carbine format, especially in .44 WCF, which shoots great with BP ammunition. (http://thumb6.webshots.net/s/thumb2/1/55/40/19415540xVUAqMVEXz_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1019415540029466406xVUAqMVEXz)
NEWS FLASH!
I just spied a "deal" on authentic Buffalo Robe Coats. Hehe, go here and you can realize a more "authentic" version for sale for $3,000 OFF the price of the one's I showed in above post (a few pages back) under Billy Dixon's clothing.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=14179&osCsid=94d7457fa6b0e14ed1d48de601689d53
;D
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Grogan,
thanks for the help. A winchester 66 would be better than the Spencer huh? I'm not really looking for speed, I just want to go out there and have some fun, but I do like Henrys and Winchesters.
Yeah, the Sharps is a given, I love that gun now, and I always actually did, thanks to some movies, I just never knew what it was!
Nice find on that buffalo coat, gotta love Dixie.
thanks
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Have you ever checked out the Grand Army of the Frontier? We encourage big bore single shots (battle rifle class) as our main match rifles. And we have had several Grand Muster stages based on your uncle's exploits.
Check us out in The Barracks http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?board=20.0 (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?board=20.0) or at our web page http://www.grandarmyofthefrontier.org/ (http://www.grandarmyofthefrontier.org/)
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cool! thanks for the info. I've heard about the GAF but I haven't looked into you guys yet b/c I didn't know what GAF was! I'll take a look. I love rifles, and yeah, a springfield trapdoor, a Sharps, a Spencer, and a Remington are all on my wish list!
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Willie:
19th Century Military cartridge rifles are a blast - literally as well as figuratively ......
A couple of images of me shooting in the Single Shot Battle Rifle class at GAF Grand Muster 2008 -
(click each thumbnail to enlarge .....)
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/2008%20Muster/th_Roger16.jpg) (http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/2008%20Muster/?action=view¤t=Roger16.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/2008%20Muster/th_Muster08_4.jpg) (http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/2008%20Muster/?action=view¤t=Muster08_4.jpg)
In keeping with my British Empire persona (my uniform in the above pics is Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, circa 1885) I am shooting a .577/.450 Martini Henry rifle, which chambers a rather 'substantial' cartridge (service load 85-90 grains black powder with 480 grain bullet.) Here is one on the right of a 'wimpy' li'l .45-70 for comparison .... the cartridge on the left side is another British Empire service round I shoot .....for the .577 Snider-Enfield, which the Martini-Henry replaced -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/Cartridges/577_4570_577450.jpg)
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RJ, do you live near a lead mine to "feed" all those Big Bores? ;D :D ;)
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Well .... almost! A friend of mine (longtime black powder - and now cowboy action - shooter) got 'discovered' by the local contractor engaged by our telephone company to replace the big old lead-cased multi-strand cables with fiberoptics ---- a "free" way for them to dispose of this "hazardous material" - already have more lead than we can shoot off in a lifetime, probably!
It's wheelweights for hardening material that seem to be getting more difficult to acquire .....
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wow... that is a huge round!!!
I love big guns, ever since shooting out a go-fast boat in the Coast Guard with a .50 cal sniper!
so... the GAF... I'm intrigued, and I have questions...
how does it work? Like CAS like NCOWS and SASS or is it a once a year thing or what?
are there anybody either in Southern California or the Flagstaff, Prescott Az area?
thanks!
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www.grandarmyofthefrontier.org
Start here, then visit The Barracks Forum.
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GAF basically started out as an internet discussion group for people who cotton to the idea of combining their interest in Victorian-era military history with 'frontier action shooting' - such as those of us who adopt a military persona for our shooting within SASS and NCOWS ..... but has been developing into an active shooting organization in its own right. The annual Grand Muster has been held for several years now, and folks are beginning to put on other shoots (locally/regionally) following the GAF concept. Even the GAF Musters permit 'regular' frontier action shooters to participate - in 'Scout' class - with their usual firearms (i.e. pistol caliber lever-action rifle and one of their two regular revolvers .... no shotguns, normally, in keeping with the Victorian-era military theme.)
As for contacts, go to the "Rosters" section of the GAF website, where there are maps showing the Departmental breakdown - clicking on the appropriate Department on the map of the US will bring up a listing of the HQ and Divisional officers, and members in that Dept. As you'll see, California is in the Dept. of the Pacific and Arizona is in the Dept. of the Platte .....
Actually, if you start 'hanging out' in The Barracks here in Cas City, you'll soon begin to develop a better 'feel' for GAF - introduce yourself there, and somebody from your vicinity will undoubtedly respond ....
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thanks.
for some reason the GAF website doesn't like my computer too much... that's why I asked the questions here seeing as that's where my topic headed. I can't even find the "Rosters" section! Probably because my parents have the screen resolution set really low so they can read it!
Thanks for the help