Damascus barrelled shotgun

[elhombreconnonombre]

I have an old black powder sxs 12 g with Damascus barrels, but most folks over on THR say this should be relegated to wallhanger duty due to potential unseen corrosion.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have an old black powder sxs 12 g with Damascus barrels, but most folks over on THR say this should be relegated to wallhanger duty due to potential unseen corrosion.

Good advice! if it looks and feels like an old gun, just hang it up. If it looks in good shape, take it to a GOOD gunsmith with EXPERIENCE with Damascus barrels. Only with a good bill of health shoot it with caution.

[Coffinmaker]

The folks on THR gave you good and sage advise.  There are some Damascus gun that may be safe to shoot.  they cost a lot more than most of us can afford.  Other than some forms of Non-Distructive Inspection such as Magnaflux, there is no way the average, or even the above average gunsmith can give a Damascus gun a clean bill of health.  Wall Hanger

Now,  We will probably have an influx of those who think they know it all, who are going to argue the above.  Some are even going to argue they are shooting "X Y Z" Damascus shotgun and have been doing so for years with no problem.  It only takes "one" problem.  It is
possible however, to have a Damascus gun "tubed" to a smaller Gage (a 12 to 20) and outfits like Briley do that.  Ain't cheap.

Your hands,  Your call.  Ain't my Circus, aren't my Monkies.

Coffinmaker

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[elhombreconnonombre]

Thanks pards
There's a smith here in Austin I've been referred to, but as y'all said it's still an iffy proposition. To add to the story, it came to me via an inheritance from my maternal grandmother through my late mom, hidden and disassembled under a bunch of blankets in an old cedar chest.  It is a Birmingham-made and proofed front stuffer produced in the 1840s and shortened for use on horseback by my gggpaw, a trooper and ex-Texas Ranger in the 19th Texas cavalry, CSA.  It probably should be donated to a museum given its known provenance and perhaps periodically used for display only in a living history group I am considering joining in San Antonio. I will try to post a pic. It is a interesting piece.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

It sounds like it is more valuable as it is without risking damage.

[Coffinmaker]

OOOOOOOO,   
With that kind of history, I wouldn't be at all inclined to shoot it.  As Sir Charles pointed out, it's value as a chunk of actual history gives
the gun much more value, on display, in one piece.

Coffinmaker

[rickk]

I have one...  Crescent Arms... it was checked over by a gunsmith ( a real one... with about 50 years of experience) and he found no issues in the bores.

I take it easy with it though... 50 grains of 1F and 1 ounce of shot... a pleasure to shoot

[Oregon Bill]

Damascus can be quite safe to shoot, but yes, you want a good smith to give it a going over. Birmingham proofs are great, but the Belgian barrels themselves actually have a pretty good reputation as well. Google V.M. Starr for a fine treatise on ML doubles.
Also, Sherman Bell has written extensively on this subject in the Double Gun Journal.

[Tascosa Joe]

Damascus can be quite safe to shoot, but yes, you want a good smith to give it a going over. Birmingham proofs are great, but the Belgian barrels themselves actually have a pretty good reputation as well. Google V.M. Starr for a fine treatise on ML doubles.
Also, Sherman Bell has written extensively on this subject in the Double Gun Journal.

Mr. Bell did extensive testing.  Some of you might find these articles an interesting read.

The gun in question knowing its history should probably not be shot.  It is a great piece of Texas History.

[St. George]

Giving it to a museum pretty much guarantees that you'll never see it again, much less be able to take it out and play with it.

Museums clamp down on things...

Better to keep it, document it if possible, clean it and if you do want to join a reenactment outfit, you can use it at that time.

Now that said, you 'can' put it on display 'if' the museum agrees - and for a 'very' specific period of time.

They don't generally like doing that - they like to 'possess things - but they will do it.

If you do so - make absolutely certain that it's written into the contract that it's your property, or the property of your heirs or designee, should you die - they 'really' don't like signing those, but they will, if it's the only way they get to display it and if it's a key piece, and make 'them' insure it.

I say this, because I've bought one hell of a lot of stuff from museums in the past, and I'd never donate a damned thing to one.

Scouts Out!

[Bibbyman]

You'll not get a consensus answer on Damascus barreled shotgun.  Opinions run from, "they are all bomb just waiting to explode", to total disregard to the condition and design limits of the old guns.  The truth is somewhere inbetween.  I talked to a number of people who own, shoot and respect the fine old shotguns for what they are and they laugh at the notion that they are unsafe - provided the gun is in good condition and the ammo shot in them are of the period that the gun was designed to shoot.   

While Damascus barrels were available well into the era of smokeless powder, it's unlikely they are new enough to have chambers designed for modern folded crimp plastic shells.  I'm of the opinion that modern low brass target or field loads are not appropriate for these old guns.  Smokeless shells develop high presure early in ignition were black powder has much less pressure and keeps pressure longer.  Modern fold (star) crimped loads could open up in the very short forcing cones of these old guns and become an obstruction.   An otherwise solid gun should be able to stand the pressures of black powder loaded in brass or roll crimped hulls. 

Just my two cents worth.

[rickk]

It is unlikely that a Damascus barrel would have 2-3/4" chambers... it is a hand load affair only, using either Brass Hulls or cut down plastic ones.

[shrapnel]

I have a few that I shoot regularly. I shoot low pressure loads in them and 2 1/2 inch shells can be found fairly easy, I have a couple cases that i shoot and then reload them and shoot them again. The first is a Colt 1878 with the original Ivory bead, the second is a Burgess wrist slide action with a solid rib. Both guns are rare, but in excellent shape...

[Don Kenna]

I’ve asked this very question of myself and others for some years now.  I should preface my questions here by explaining that I have extensive experience firing black powder cartridges in both antique and modern reproduction rifles and revolvers, and consider myself very knowledgeable about doing so in both sorts of firearms—probably to the point of arrogance for some.  My knowledge of and experience with firing black powder loads in shotguns is, by my own admission, very limited.  I’ve fired a few black powder handloads in modern-made double-barreled shotguns, and I have seen a couple of people fire Damascus-barreled original shotguns without mishap.  That’s the extent of my experience in that department.

I have an original Remington Model 1889 double-barreled shotgun I would like to shoot.  I will emphasize that I intend to shoot black powder 2.5-inch shells in this gun only.  The gun itself has seen much use (flattened checkering points and noticeable wear on the hard rubber buttplate), but has evidently had good care, and is in excellent mechanical condition with a solid lockup.  The bores are mirror-bright and I cannot see a speck of rust in them or anywhere else on the gun.

While the standard advice of “Don’t fire the gun at all until it has been checked by a competent gunsmith familiar with black powder firearms.” is theoretically very sound and logical, it usually isn’t very practical.  Many, if not most, local gunsmiths are parts replacers who can be very helpful in fixing malfunctioning AR-15 platforms and busted automatic shotguns.  Most of that breed are not at all hesitant to assure me that I’m going to ruin my antique Remington rifles and Colt revolvers, not to mention blowing my head off, by my continued use of black powder cartridges in them—a few times without my asking their advice.  In fact, many of them will tell you that anyone firing a firearm made before about 1940 is clinically insane.  (I’ve written about this problem elsewhere.)  Perhaps I am so, but in 40 years of firing firearms made in the last half of the 19th Century I haven’t yet managed to kill myself.  But—again—none of my shooting of the sort involved Damascus-barreled shotguns.

Feeling rather like the Western hero raising his hat on a stick, I solicit your advice.

Don Kenna

[Bibbyman]

I recently acquired this Remington 1889 12 guage that was in excellent condition except for stock cleanly broken through the locks that I repaired.  It's a grade one with decarbined steel barrels.  I emailed Remington and they said it was made in 1898 and was advertised as being approved for nitro.  I'm shooting it with light smokeless loads that I roll crimp.

[Trailrider]

The problem with Damascus (aka Twist Steel) barrels is that even with NDT examination, there is no way to determine the possible intergrannular corrosion along the seams.  Even if cleaned properly following shooting, one cannot be sure that corrosion hadn't occurred.  With a known history, the gun could possibly have sentimental value for family members. I would definitely NOT FIRE it! But as Duke Wayne said, "You do what you think is best!"

[Fox Creek Kid]