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CAS TOPICS => CAS FAQ => Topic started by: Matthew Duncan on December 06, 2005, 03:06:15 PM

Title: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Matthew Duncan on December 06, 2005, 03:06:15 PM
Reloading.

About five years ago my son (Morticai McCool) and myself watched our first cowboy shoot.  We thought this would be a great sport for us to do together as Father & Son.

To keep things simple we decided to use the same caliber in the pistols and rifle, 45 LC.

With ammunition and match fees, our cost was just over $100 per match (ouch).  About 34 cents per 45 LC round.  So I decided we needed to reload our own.  I have a technical background but have never tried reloading.  Where to start?  So I searched the Internet and watched posts about reloading.  I came to the conclusion that Dillon Precision http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=6&dyn=1&cookieClean=1 was the place to start.  I purchased a Square Deal B with the strong mount option, CV-500 Vibratory Case Cleaner and CM-500 Case/Media Separator.  I also bought Starline brass and lead bullets from Dillon.


The Square Deal B is designed for one caliber (yes you can change calibers but it would easier with a more expensive model) and seating depths are preset at factory.  This would be great for a beginner like me!

Loads?  What powder and primer?  Well I know you just don’t fill a case with powder without knowing how much to use.  I have had my fingers my entire life and plan on keeping them for a while longer.  Purchased a Speer reloading manual http://www.booktrail.com/Guns_Reloading/Speer%20Reloading%20Manual%20No.%2013.asp it lists primers and loads for different brands of powder.  I went to the local sporting goods store and bought the only powder they had that was listed in the Speer manual, IMR 4227 and Remington 2 ½ large pistol primers.

Mounting and assembling the Square deal on the workbench was very easy.  Loaded the primers and powder.  Here we go!  You do have to adjust how much power is dispensed and I didn’t have a scale to weigh it.  Rats.  So I went online to Dillon’s web site and looked at scales.  I’m a sucker for anything electronic so I was really leaning towards their electronic scales.  But I ended up ordering an Eliminator Loading Scale for about $50.  It is what I’d call a triple beam scale.  I thought why spend extra money for their real neat electronic scale; because once I find the right adjustment, I’d only use the scales to spot-check my work.

Now we’re ready to go.  Load 5 rounds and reweighed them.  They all weighed the same.  This is good.  Took the rounds outside and tried to load.  Cylinder wouldn’t turn!  Primers were not seated flush, RATS.  What’s wrong with the factory settings?  The Square Deal came very well packaged but maybe something got knocked out of alignment?  So I sat down and actual read the instructions!  The primer is seated when you press the handle all the way up.  I wasn’t doing that (amazing what one learns when you read the instructions).  Loaded another five rounds and they all went boom!

I have reloaded approximately 2000 rounds at a cost savings of about 24 cents per round.  I figured the reloading equipment has already paid for it’s self.

I have had two problems with the Square Deal.  Twice, primers would not feed.  Cleaning solved that problem.  The other problem involved the plastic holder that catches the spent primers.  It wouldn’t always catch them and primers end up on the bench or rolled to the floor.  I just took off the plastic holder and slip the cardboard box that the bullets came in under the Square Deal, solved that problem.

If I had to do it all over again I wouldn’t have bought the Media Separator.  It’s just as fast for me to grab the brass out of the Vibratory Case Cleaner.  It also gives me a chance to spot check for split casings.

End of story.


Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Marshal Will Wingam on December 06, 2005, 11:58:18 PM
Sounds like you got it worked out, Matthew. Congrats. Now you own the stuff free & clear. Doesn't it feel good to pull that handle, now? ;D
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Matthew Duncan on December 07, 2005, 07:17:16 AM
Nope it’s frustrating!

Pull handle out of primers.  Run to town and buy more.

Pull handle out of brass.  Go online and order more.

Pull handle out of powder.  Run to town to buy more.

Pull handle out of bullets.  Run to local garage for wheel weights.  Melt down, pour into casting, size and lube.

Pull handle … I just haven’t figured out how I can get all the components to run out at the same time so I can finally finish!
 ;D
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Dakota Widowmaker on December 21, 2005, 11:17:23 PM
Just buy lots at once...  ;D

Seriously, you bite the bullet (so to speak) once and need not worry.

I have now over 1100 200gr 45lc bullets waiting to get shed down range.
I have about 500 44-40 200gr bullets that need lubing. I usually do 150-200 at a time pan lubing and then load them in a week or so.
...etc.

A good progressive is your salvation. (for time...not money)
Lee, RCBS, Dillon...all make good presses. (except for the Lee Loadmaster...stay away)
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Ranger Popp on January 17, 2006, 08:09:13 AM
why sty away from the lee loadmaster... just curiouse. I am looking to buy a press and was looking at the lee booklet.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Tensleep on January 17, 2006, 08:25:59 AM
Ranger I had a Loadmaster that would not stay in adjustment no matter how I tightened EVERYTHING!
Also to put it bluntly, I think the primer feed is junk.

The only Lee press that I have ever liked was the first one that I bought, the Lee Anniversary Kit, a single stage press that is still cranking out rounds.

I have tried the Lee 1000 and the Loadmaster.

If I were you I would go for the Dillon Square Deal B or the Dillon 650. I have both and they do great work.

If you want to go single stage go for the RCBS Rock Chucker, tough as hell and very inexpensive.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on January 17, 2006, 02:23:06 PM
Unless you are a millionaire and a multi one at that or are a sponsored competitor in IPSC, the shooting sports demand for volumes of ammunition nesscitate the need for reloading.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Griff on January 19, 2006, 08:15:29 PM
why sty away from the lee loadmaster... just curiouse. I am looking to buy a press and was looking at the lee booklet.
I've had my Dillon for about 15 years.  Load 3 caliber on it; .45 Colt, .45 Auto, and .38/.357.
I somehow lost one of the pins for my .45 Colt set.  I looked on-line and couldn't figure out how to order a replacemet, so I called Dillon.  They guy at Customer Service asked me for my addr info, said: "I've got one here in my desk, I'll mail it out this afternoon.  No charge."
Now that's what I call service.  If you think I'm even considering anything besides a Dillon for my next press... think again.  We'll put that first guess up to cheap recreational drugs. :o
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on January 21, 2006, 07:50:47 AM
Howdy!!

Without this becoming a Dillon lovefest, I think Dillon is the way to go.  If someone is leery about starting out with a "full-auto" progressive, then Dillon also makes a splendid Turret press, the AT 500. (Edited late 2006 - AT500 no longer available.)  Lyman makes a great turret press as well as Lee.  I'm not sure, but I think (I'd bet on it) RCBS Makes one, too.  The big advantage of the Dillon is that the AT 500 will convert to a full progressive, the RL550B.  However, Dillon while not TOO bad on the pocketbook initially, can get expensive as you add calibers.

No one has mentioned single stage presses, yet.  I started out helping my best buddy on his RCBS Rockchucker Jr.  That was about 30 years ago.  He still has it and that is his only press - no matter HOW hard I've tried to get him to make the Dillon plunge!  After loading on his for half-a-dozen years I went into the Army, and when I re-enlisted the first time, I bought myself a couple re-up presents:  a 6" Electroless Nickle Python and a Bonanza loading press.  That was in 1982.  I still have and USE both.  The Bonanza is pretty much the Cadillac of single-stage presses.

A good friend bought a Lee set that, except for the powder measure, has worked well for him.  I personally don't much care for Lee presses, but I have to admit they're a bargain!  I DO like Lee dies and much of their associated equipment, and have a number of tools and dies with Lee marked on them.

I have little experience with Lyman equipment, except for their turret press, but it's built like a tank.  Also, I had a Lyman 55 powder measure for years and it worked like a champ.  It did very "repeatable" settings.  (If you don't know what repeatable is, it is the ability of any piece of adjustable equipment to go back to the same setting, time and time again: this is VERY good.)

All in all, it takes about a thousand rounds to make up your equipment cost vs. savings.  (This is figured using my Dillon RL550B.)  It's probably cheaper for some of the less expensive equipment.  If you buy in bulk, say 1000-2000 primers at once; 500-1000 bullets at a time; a 4 lb. or 8 lb container of your chosen powder, altho there are no 4 or 8 lb. containers of Black Powder that I know of - you can still save by buying it in quantity; and buy 1000 Win. or other cases at once will save money.  Yes, the initial outlay can be daunting, but you'll save BIG in the end.

Now all this has to be taken with a grain of salt: if you LIKE to shoot, and tend to shoot a lot, your cost SAVINGS can be eaten up by the fact that you now can buy, load, and shoot MORE, so perhaps you're not really saving any money, but you ARE shooting and practicing more, and hopefully having MORE FUN !!!
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Marshal Will Wingam on January 21, 2006, 09:04:43 AM
Now all this has to be taken with a grain of salt: if you LIKE to shoot, and tend to shoot a lot, your cost SAVINGS can be eaten up by the fact that you now can buy, load, and shoot MORE, so perhaps you're not really saving any money, but you ARE shooting and practicing more, and hopefully having MORE FUN !!!
;D ;D ;D

I've have a Dillon 550B for 5 or 6 years, now. What a great move that was. My single stage presses are in a box and I only use them to load fire-lapping bullets so as to not get any grit in my Dillon. It's paid for itself many times over. I buy my bullets, primers and powder (when I see what I use) at gunshows where good deals are available. It's the only way to go.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Four-Eyed Buck on January 21, 2006, 02:34:49 PM
I've got a Dillon SDB, a LEE PRO1000, an RCBS Partner , and a MEC jr.. I'm still going through a learning curve with the Dillon, the LEE I've had for years and it's worked pretty good for me. The Partner is a single stage that I started out learning to reload on, it handles my rifle calibers and the 38-40's, plus the experimental stuff. Most of these company's make workable stuff, it's what appeals to you and is easiest for you to work. For the Loadmaster, I've seen too many horror stories. My mentor had one and it seemed to work fine for him, but I'd stay away from them......Buck 8) ::) ;)
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Coyote Tim on January 30, 2006, 09:39:02 PM
While we're on the subject, are we allowed to discuss specific reloading data, and if so, which forum? (I saw the BP forum but nothing for smokeless powder.)
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Four-Eyed Buck on January 30, 2006, 09:52:29 PM
Try "Shooter's Meeting", Tim........ 8)
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Skullyville Tom on April 08, 2007, 12:11:11 AM
I started reloading on a Dillon RL550 in 1985 when I was shooting PPC competitively, the ability fo load large quantities of ammo in a short time was invaluable, it meant that I had the time and the ammo to get out and practice several times a week, that's what it takes to do well in competitive shooting.

Photo of my bench below. 
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Dr. Bob on April 08, 2007, 11:35:19 PM
Skullyville Tom,

You just said it all.   Lots of practice is what it take to be competetve!  Learned that as a teenager 45 years ago.  Got into CAS 2 years ago and don't have what it takes to get to the top, so I'm in it for the FUN.  My shootin' pards and I are going on 30 years of buckskinning, reenacting and shooting together.  I mas shoot slow and miss some targets, but I have as much fun as the guys who win the whole shoot!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Cyrille on April 10, 2007, 12:18:39 PM
Well all of my reloading experance has been with Lee, I have Lee Classic Hand loaders for for my 30-30 Winchester Marlin lever action, my .45  Colt caliber Rugers, Colt, Henry BB and Winchester model '94 Trails End and also my 45-70 Sharps Perdosoli I recently purchased a  single stage Hand press Lee and the dies for both .45 caliber LC and the 45-70 Gov't. I have had no experence with other brands of reloading equitment. as I tend to go with with one brand.
 Can anyone tell me if Lee dies will fit a "Rock Chucker?"
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Arcey on April 11, 2007, 09:06:02 AM
Can anyone tell me if Lee dies will fit a "Rock Chucker?"

They'll fit.....
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Cyrille on April 11, 2007, 10:38:00 AM
They'll fit.....
Thanks Arcey
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Arcey on April 11, 2007, 12:21:03 PM
My pleasure..
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on June 02, 2007, 09:14:40 AM
Howdy!

Cyrille, this is quite a bit later than your question Arcey answered, but as far as die interchangeability, the only dies - COMMONLY FOUND - that won't fit from one press to another are the special Dillon dies made for the Dillon SDB.  There are undoubtedly others, but they're mostly commercial (or VERY old) and not found often.  I load 13 calibers, (14 actually, if you count the 44 Russian blanks I make for our NCOWS club re-enactments)  have 16 die sets, of which 6 sets are Lee.  I also have various single dies with sets that are different than the rest of the set.  (For instance: Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die used with Dillon die set for 45 Colt.)  And same for RCBS, Hornady, & Lyman.  ALL make great die sets and other equipment, but Lee dies are outstanding; they have been made longer recently to be more progressive-press friendly  and are a real bargain - perhaps the best single item Lee makes, IMHO.  My Lee 45-70 die set was less than $20, but ALL others (I found) were close to, or over $40.  And just TRY to find dies for 6.5 x 50 mm Japanese!  $17 (Midway price) 2 die set made by Lee.  ($45 for 20 cases, 'tho!  :o )
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: boot strap jack on June 06, 2007, 11:24:51 PM
If you are new to reloading, or wanting to up grade, check out ebay. I got a dillon 550b press for less than 300. Rock chunker go for 35 to 80. Before bidding check the prices of new to what you are wanting to pay. also watch out for shipping, they can really gouge you there.  ;)
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: OldGeezer on December 09, 2007, 02:18:24 PM
I'll stay with Dillon because of their customer service and their products.  Every business ought to have customer service like theirs
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on December 09, 2007, 09:15:48 PM
Howdy!

One of the best things that has happened to the shooting equipment industry IS Dillon.  Their service was so far ahead of the others (when Dillon started) that they have forced the other manufacturers to do better.   Most or all of the major companies now have great company service, many on a par with Dillon.

Of course, I don't want service similar to Dillon's, I have the real deal.  ;D
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Buck Rawhide on August 22, 2008, 07:47:19 PM
Howdy,

I LOVE my 550B!!  Just getting into CAS.  Have one Vaquero on order that I pick up next week, (10 day wait), but have already received my dies, caliber conversion,etc.  Already have some .38 special loaded up for a gun I don't even have yet!!

Dillon's customer service is what makes them in my opinion.  I believe their warranty policy is 100% coverage.  I have yet to hear of someone that has contacted Dillon regarding a warranty item and not received it for free.

Take care,
Buck
Title: Question about Square Deal 'B'
Post by: Pumphandle on September 10, 2009, 05:12:55 PM
I recently got my Square Deal 'B' out of the cabinet for the first time in six years. I'm having a problem with my primers not seating completely, or at all. One out ten will seat properly. I'm (trying to) reload .45 LC. Everything else seems to be working OK. Can anyone help? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on September 11, 2009, 01:22:29 AM
I recently got my Square Deal 'B' out of the cabinet for the first time in six years. I'm having a problem with my primers not seating completely, or at all. One out ten will seat properly. I'm (trying to) reload .45 LC. Everything else seems to be working OK. Can anyone help? Thanks in advance.



I can't help other than to say:

Call 'em.  They'll make it run right.


By the way, their 100% warranty does NOT cover the electronic devices, i.e. Tumblers, Digital scales, etc.  They told me this was because other companies make that stuff, not Dillon themselves.  Those things are covered for a year.

But the "hard"ware is a rock solid guarantee.

Go Big Blue!
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Matthew Duncan on November 17, 2009, 06:52:29 PM
4 years after my original post.

SDB is still going strong.

Aluminum bracket on the back side cracked.  Sent it to Dillon, fixed at no charge.  Looks like they returned a new machine.

I'd call it a privot arm, one on each side.  One cracked, called Dillon a new PAIR was sent, again no charge.

Still loading 250 grain 45's and they still all go BOOM!

Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Griff on January 03, 2010, 10:51:26 PM
Go Big Blue!
Amen!!!

I'm almost sad to say that I've had to use the famous "No BS" warranty from Dillon... but I'm sure glad they have it.  Surprises me every time I have to call, admit that I've "lost" (just can't find it on my cluttered reloading bench) plastic part or locator pin for the shell plate, and even when I demand to pay for it... the guy sez, "got one right here in my desk, I'll get it in the mail this afternoon!
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on October 08, 2010, 07:12:20 PM
No question Dillon has the best warranty in the business.

I started out shooting High power so a progressive press was not really a good option as the rifle cases needed to be lubed and sized and then cleaned (tumbled a second time the first tumbling was be for lubing and sizing to take range grit off and polish the brass).  I got the Lyman 47 ed manual which gave really good instuctions.  Bought the Lyman T-Mag outfit from Mid South Shooters supply and never looked back.

Heavy loads of Rifle and Pistol Brass wore out the Initial tumbler in about 2 years shooting 2 - 3 matches a month in Summer and 2 in winter.  Bought the Dillon CV500 it has taken the load flawlessly and being much better and heavier build will probably function flawlessly long after I am pushing up daisies.

I did manage to loose the washer that goes under the lid closing nut.  I have not reported this to Dillon as I lost it, it was my fault and I do not want them to give me another free part to re-loose.  If I shot a whole lot more CASS I would get the High speed progressives from Dillon.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Octagonal Barrel on June 18, 2013, 04:34:37 AM
I saw someone above make reference to using a Lee Classic handloader for what looked like lever gun rounds.  I've seen a warning on some websites that sell the Lee Classic, to the effect that they aren't for lever gun loads.  Something about the die not resizing the entire brass?  Can someone explain exactly what that limitation means, since I don't have the experience yet to understand it?  Is it possible to buy dies that will allow the Lee Classic to be used with lever gun rounds?  I've been trying to figure out to to get started with reloading, and was considering the classic.

Maybe this could be its own separate thread, but since use of the Lee Classic was mentioned above, and since this is a thread on beginning reloading, I thought I'd go ahead and ask here.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on June 18, 2013, 01:04:11 PM
Semi Automatics and Lever action rifles do not have strong closing mechanisms like a bolt action to force a shell in to the chamber (somewhat over stated by me).  In anycase shells may be difficult to chamber.  Normal dies do not resize a shell completely and could be a problem. 

Some manufacures make small base dies that resize brass smaller that a normal die basically back to factory ammo size or very close to it.  These dies were made for lever and semi auto ammo to facilitate chambering.

Having said that I shot NRA high power for many years reloaded M-1, M-1A and M-15 Ammo with regular dies and did not have any difficulty chambering.  I have reloaded some for the 1894 Win 32 Spec I inherited from dad, again using regular dies without a problem.

Others may have had serious problems with "Normal" dies and swear by small base.

Small base dies work brass harder and potential reduce the number of reloads a case is good for. 
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Abilene on June 18, 2013, 02:14:48 PM
I saw someone above make reference to using a Lee Classic handloader for what looked like lever gun rounds.  I've seen a warning on some websites that sell the Lee Classic, to the effect that they aren't for lever gun loads.  Something about the die not resizing the entire brass?  Can someone explain exactly what that limitation means, since I don't have the experience yet to understand it?  Is it possible to buy dies that will allow the Lee Classic to be used with lever gun rounds?  I've been trying to figure out to to get started with reloading, and was considering the classic.

Maybe this could be its own separate thread, but since use of the Lee Classic was mentioned above, and since this is a thread on beginning reloading, I thought I'd go ahead and ask here.


I believe you are referring to the 2007 post from Cyrille above where he says he uses the Classic Handloader to reload 30-30 for a Marlin.  You might send him a PM asking about this.  Lee's website does state that the handloaders necksize only, so not for lever actions, pumps, or semi-autos.  Possibly by reloading only brass that was shot in your gun will allow the neck-sized reloads to work okay, I don't know.  I don't think you can use any other dies with the Lee Handloader.  Without a bench-mounted press you just don't have the leverage to full-length resize brass.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: sharps1863 on June 18, 2013, 04:54:13 PM
I think it may be that the Lee Classic Handloader does not put a tight crimp on the bullet. This maybe why Lee does not recommend it in a lever rifle.
O.B. a Lee Classic Handloader does not have interchangeable dies. It is all in one unit made for one caliber only. If you want to start reloading and dont want to invest a lot of money take a look at the Lee Anniversary Kit. Plus get a good reloading how to manual. With good step by step instructions on how to reload a cartridge. Bad thing about starting out reloading now is the shortage of all the components to put a cartridge together with.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: rickk on November 18, 2013, 12:15:58 PM
I used to have a couple of Lee PRO1000's

After one of them had a primer feeder explosion in my face I ditched them and switched to a pair of RL550s and never looked back.


I do still use my old 3 holed fully manual  LEE turret press quite a bit, and I love it for calibers that I don't need to crank out a bajillion rounds of in short notice.  I have maybe 15-20 different caliber die sets for it. It is really cheap and fast to swap calibers on it.

Now that you are reloading and saving a fortune, you can spend some of your massive pile of saved money on some quality bullet casting equipment and save even more money.

That saved money can of course be used to buy some other cool things ;-)

Rick
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: nagantino on November 29, 2018, 05:35:57 PM
Lee Pro 1000 is a reliable and affordable machine. Find the configuration for your round and leave it alone. Problems? Yes but they all have problems. One piece of advise.......do not buy the Lee Loadmaster.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Jack Straw on November 30, 2018, 09:35:32 AM
A Lee Loadmaster once disgraced my loading room 20 years ago.   It's the only tool I ever purchased that I actually threw away.

I was a slow learner about progressive presses.  Before the Loadmaster I had not one, but two Pro 1000 presses that were impossible to keep running.  I'm quite skilled with machines of all kinds but the Lee products vexed me.   I have known a couple of guys that swear by the Pro 1000 but honestly I just think they were lucky.

When I called to order an XL 650 I chatted with the Dillon rep about my experience with the Loadmaster and he summed up the tool neatly by saying " yep, Lee has some great ideas but then you actually have to use them."
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Cliff Fendley on November 30, 2018, 09:18:17 PM
Dang this thread raised from the long ago grave once again.
Title: Re: Reloading for Beginners
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on December 01, 2018, 12:50:27 AM
Dang this thread raised from the long ago grave once again.

Every few years it reincarnates.  It's kind of interesting.

CC Griff
Title: Re: Question about Square Deal 'B'
Post by: Dave T on December 01, 2018, 08:45:43 AM
Posted to a comment that was much older than I realized. OOPS!

Dave
Title: Re: Question about Square Deal 'B'
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on December 01, 2018, 08:54:06 AM
Posted to a comment that was much older than I realized. OOPS!

Dave

I've said it before: If we can learn from old threads, let's resurrect them.  I have no problem with it; it's just interesting.  IT LIVES!!!

CC Griff