1860 Richards Mason .45lc to .45 acp conversion question. New to single actions

[2nd Mass]

Hello all,

I'm looking to buy an 1860s Richards Mason Type II transition revolver. Specifically a reproduction from Cimmarron since that's the only reproduction I've been able to find. http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/conversion-revolvers/1860-conversions/1860-conversions-1860-richards-type-ii/richards-transition-model-45-lc-8-in-ca9052.html

By the way, this would be my first single action beyond .22lr. I'm basically a novice to single actions and old revolvers but have wanted a Richards conversion since before I knew what they were even called.

I intend to use it a lot and with the price of .45lc it will hurt the wallet quite a bit. Might get into reloading but even then it's pricey. I had heard there was a way to convert the cylinder to accept .45acp as well. Is anyone familiar with this?

My other option would be to just buy it in .38 special but I understand that may be difficult for competitions later on if I decide to join any.

Any advice, resources or links on info would be greatly appreciated. 

[Tornado]

First off welcome, and cool first choice, it shows you have style. 
Why would the .38 limit competitions?  Most SASS shooters use .38's and it is an approved NCOWS round.   .38 special would be my only choice if I didn't reload.  
Also, you will get more feedback if you post this in the STORM forum, it is just for open top style Colt replicas.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I think with a gate loading single action open top, your best option is to buy a spare .44 special or .44 Russian cylinder, have it bored out/chambered for .45 ACP and have it fitted and timed to your gun.  This way you could enjoy .45 ACP in it, but the even cheaper solution is to just handload for .45 Colt as it is MUCH CHEAPER to handload for it than to buy factory .45 ACP and have to spend the money for having another cylinder fitted.

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[Blair]

V G,

Good advice!

The Chambering/head spacing used for these two cartridges are quite different and will not interchange in one cylinder.
My best,
 Blair

[Mean Bob Mean]

If you are worried about the cost of reloading, having 100-200 worth of smithing work makes no sense to me either.

The .38 is the champ for reloading costs, if that were my concern I would buy .38s and shoot them for a year and then see if I simply had to have a .45.  If you want .45 ACP performance in a long colt, just buy .45 Schofield or .45 Special (aka .45 Cowboy) brass or cut existing long colt brass down.  You will burn through a lot less powder that way, and not have to 1) pay to modify the gun, 2) ruin its value since I doubt many folks want a rimless single action for CAS, 3) deal with costs/issues of modifying a rimmed action to shoot rimless ammo.  

Best of luck whichever way you go friend.

By the way, there is a .45 Schofield 1860 Army conversion on sale on gunbroker right now.

[Graveyard Jack]

NOOOOOOO!!!!! The .45ACP does not belong in the 1860. Pressures are way over that of the .45Colt (14,000 vs 21,000psi) and the sixgun would probably not last long, even if one could find a `smith to do the conversion.

[Mike]

Get it in 44 colt or 44 russian.
loading isvfun and with black powder the only real way to shoot a Richards.
I do have a Opentop in 44 sp as well which I shoot bp and it works great.

Have fun and be safe.

[Coffinmaker]

I must agree with Craig C.  No sane, self respecting gunsmith would even consider re chambering ANY cylinder for ANY of the conversions in .45 ACP.  The chamber pressure of .45 ACP  would disassemble an open top type conversion in very short order.  Catastrophically at that.
For .45 Colt chamberings an alternative is the Cowboy 45 Special cartridge, intended for lighter loadings with the same internal volume of the ACP.
The .44 Colt/Russian is also a good combo and the .38 is a  excellent choice.

Coffinmaker

[Virginia Gentleman]

It could be done safely if you used only downloaded handloads like those for the .455 Webleys that were converted to .45 ACP.

[Mike]

If you are going to use down load and reload why not load 45 Schofield.

[Blair]

2nd Mass,

If you are wanting inexpensive... the .38 sp. target load with wad cutter bullets are still probably the least costly of the center fire options available today.
To my knowledge there should be no issues with using this round in competition, until you look at feeding them through a leaver gun. at that point in time you may want to look at a RNFP bullet for the rifle/carbine.
My best,
 Blair

[2nd Mass]

Thanks for all the info guys! It's a great relief to be getting help on this. So far it looks like .45 acp is out, and I've seen .45 schofield and .44 special and .45 russian mentioned. Honestly I hadn't even seen them in those calibers so it's good to know they at least exist. I'll keep my eye out and keep doing the math till works out.

Also thanks for the heads up that .38 special works for competitions.

[Mean Bob Mean]

Thanks for all the info guys! It's a great relief to be getting help on this. So far it looks like .45 acp is out, and I've seen .45 schofield and .44 special and .45 russian mentioned. Honestly I hadn't even seen them in those calibers so it's good to know they at least exist. I'll keep my eye out and keep doing the math till works out.

Also thanks for the heads up that .38 special works for competitions.

I have 3 .44 Colt revolvers.  If you land on those let me know. 

[Abilene]

In case you buy the Type II in .38 Spcl:  The gun will have the army grip and barrel same as the .44's and .45's, but it will not have the rebated frame and stepped cylinder (or is it rebated cylinder and stepped frame, I always get that confused  ).  The cylinder will be the same straight cylinder that comes on the '51 Richards-Mason.  This is no big deal to most folks but it is to some, and the guns pictured on Cimarron's website only show the ones with the stepped cylinder.  Just FYI, don't want you to be surprised.

[Virginia Gentleman]

The brass for .45 Schofield is more expensive and less available for free on the range floor than .45 ACP.   

[St. George]

Maybe - but there's zero confusion - and even less chance of some random fool who thinks he can shoot a full-patch .45ACP because it fits the piece and he has some on hand.

Besides, every shooter I know polices up his spent brass, today - nobody rides for free.

Scouts Out!

[Graveyard Jack]

The brass for .45 Schofield is more expensive and less available for free on the range floor than .45 ACP.   

Low pressure pistol brass gets re-used so many times, it's cost is really insignificant.

[Coffinmaker]

Yes, it could be done safely if  the only ammunition available to anyone was lite loaded CAS ammunition.  But, it ain't.  At some point some hamhock is going to stuff his/or her on hand .45 ACP factory stuff into the gun and create an instant hand grenade.
Shooting Cowboy 45 Special brass accomplishes a satisfactory burn with a light load.  In my experience, the jump of bullet from case mouth to chamber throat hasn't had any effect on accuracy.
Unless someone unscrupulous can be found, .45 ACP in a conversion/Open Top type gun is a Dead Horse.

Coffinmaker

[rbertalotto]

Just get 45LC cylinder and load and shoot 45 Cowboy Special. Inexpensive to load for and if you cast your own bullets there are 170g available. Low recoil and lots of boom and smoke if ytou go Black Powder.

[FlyingZebra]

Roy do you have any of that big lube 170 to spare?
I'd like to try a few before I buy a full box.
I'm running a 20 year old Pietta with the slow twist and I want to see how well they stabilize in my revolver.




Thanks
-FZ