Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Powder Room - CAS reloading => Topic started by: Pappy Hayes on January 18, 2023, 09:44:50 PM
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Is there no company making 44 Colt/Russian ammo? Can't see to find any. Anyone in my area of Independence MO that does reloading?
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Black Hills Ammo:
http://www.black-hills.com/shop/cowboy-ammo/44-russian/
I know that Texas Jacks and Cimarron both carry that ammo. Whether they currently have any I couldn't say. BHA is expensive.
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What is BHA? Any site showing Black Hills is all out of stock.
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BHA is Black Hills Ammo. That is the headstamp on their brass (made by Starline, I believe). Neither Texas Jacks nor Cimarron list ammo on their websites. You have to call. They always had a good selection of BHA ammo in CAS calibers including the Russian, Schofield, 44 Spcl, 32wcf 38wcf 44wcf, etc.
Ultramax made it, too. But a quick search seems to indicate the factory burned up last year (?), so that's not good.
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Sent you a pm, I have 4 boxes factory .44 Russian I will bring to EOT to sell.
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Is it safe to shoot 44 special in Richard's type 2 and what grain should I use?
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Does it have 44 special chambers? It will be marked on the underside of the barrel. I believe most are so chambered and is fine to do so. Most run 200 grainers at 650-750 fps, ie 44 Colt ballistics.
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I found while back an article on reloading the 44's, colt,russian and special. Have not been able to find it. Can someone direct me to it?
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Is Ten-X ammo still in business?
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Is Ten-X ammo still in business?
They have been gone for a few years.
Not much to loading the Russian or special. Same as anything. Plenty of load data out there if you want to use smokeless. Use a .429 or .430 sized bullet, from 160gr to 240gr. Lighter bullets will have less recoil. Some dies might do double duty, but I use two separate sets of Lee dies for each caliber. I have some 44 Colt brass as well but haven't bothered to reload that caliber, as the Special and Russian do all I want in the .44 pistols.
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I have a lot of 44 colt brass some russian. Is there anyone here close to Independence Missouri that is doing reloading that could reload for me? I am looking into getting some reloading equipment.
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:) Hi Pappy ;)
You really don't need a lot of expensive nor a "lot" of equipment if all you want reload is 44 Russian and 44 Colt. You can start with a simple Lee Classic single stage press and dies.
Then I'd suggest loading 3f APP BP substitute. Super easy to load. APP to the bullet base (suggest 160Gr bullets) and crimp.
APP is also super easy to clean up. Plain water is the universal solvent. Wanna get fancy?? Make some PAM.
HAVE FUN
Yes Agnes, People ARE HAZARDOUS TO YER HEALTH
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What dies do i need
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Someone will need to chime in that has loaded both 44 Colt and Russian, if you want to load both those. Some Russian die sets might work on Colt as well, I'm not sure. I do know that the 44 Colt has a smaller rim and uses a different shell holder than 44 Mag/Spcl/Russian.
I use Lee dies for most stuff, has always been fine for me, and they tend to be the least expensive.
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The original .44 Colt is a heel base outside lubed bullet. The heel fits inside the case mouth but the outside dia. of the bullet is .451 to fit the bore dia. with the smaller rim dia. casing.
The original .44 Russian/Special/Magnum use a .429 dia. inside lubed bullet.
Original firearms chambered for .44 Colt or .44 Russian ammo are NOT interchangeable.
My best,
Blair
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:). Hi Pappy ;)
Not to fret. If your shooting modern replica guns, alla Open Top, R/M Conversions, etc., 44 Russian, 44 Special, and 44 Colt are ALL modern iterations and are interchangeable in the guns, unless (once in a while) you actually run into a gun chambered for 44 Russian only.
Dies needed are dies for 44 Russian/Special. Dies for 44 Magnum mayor may not load 44 Russian. Lee dies are perfectly fine as is the Lee Classic Press. Loading for one shooter, one caliber (or two) a single stage press is all you need. You may need two different shell holders for 44 Russian/44 Colt. With the additional shell holder, you will be able to load for the modern 44 Colt just fine.
Yep!! People ARE Hazardous to Yer Health!!
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If you are looking for someone close, Go to the NCOWS website and contact someone in the Kansas Vigilance Committee. There are several individuals that reload .44 Russian or .44 Colt.
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Quickest die set for both .44 Russian and .44 (inside lubed) Colt would be to buy Lee's .44 Russian set plus a .44 Colt shell holder. Colt rim is smaller in diameter than the S&W Russian. Use the appropriate shell holder as per case being loaded and then work the case mouth expander and seating dies up or down as to the shorter Russian or longer Colt case. Not much different than using the .44 mag set being used to load .44 Special.
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Anyone have Lee reloading equipment they aren't using and want to sell?
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Is there no company making 44 Colt/Russian ammo? Can't see to find any. Anyone in my area of Independence MO that does reloading?
Hey Pappy! Ammo for these calibers, esp the 44 Colt hard to find and expensive to buy. Setting up a basic reloading press, dies, scale, etc is a $$ expense to start, but well worth it. You don't have to be at the mercy of trying to find ammo. Casting lead bullets cheapin's up things too. If I had to buy all of the ammo for all of the calibers and types of firearms I have, I'd be selling a bunch. Be no fun IMO shooting what factory ammo costs. Components are to find at times due to current game of things, but if you're persistive, they can be found. I prefer RCBS and Redding reloading equipment for the most part, but a ton of ammo is loaded with Lee's and many shooters load quality ammo on it. A bit cheaper also to get set up to reload. Buying one of the sets/kits is usually cheaper than buying piece by piece. Reloading can be like alot of hobby's, ya buy at first what ya think you need, but there's always something you want to add to make it easier, faster, or whatever. Unless you want to spend more, the kits with the single stage press can reload ya alot of ammo. Sure a progressive press or a Dillion type that produces a round with every pull of the handle is fast, but I've been reloading since 1976 on a single stage RCBS RockChucker that can produce alot of ammo in an afternoon or two's work. I love to reload as much as shooting so it isn't a chore or hassle to me and I reload alot of handgun and rifle calibers that gives me as much ammo as I want.
Is it safe to shoot 44 special in Richard's type 2 and what grain should I use?
My Open Top (7.5" barrel) is stamped on the box as 44 Colt but chambered in 44 Special. Reason was advised by Cimarron employee that at the time I bought it (2007) alot of shooters wanted a OT or conversion in 44 Special but didn't want it stamped on the frame due to the fact the 44 Spec was a 1907 introduced cartridge (period correct stuff). Sometime later Cimarron stopped this policy and stamped whatever caliber the gun was. My 2009 Richards II has 44 Spec on the box. My other Open Top (4.75" barrel) has 44 Colt stamped on the box. All three though just have 44 CAL stamped on the left side of the receiver. Go figure.
When I first got the 7.5" OT in 2007 my intention was to load 44 Colts with FFF Black and smokeless in 44 Spec brass so powder ID would be an easy thing. Did so for a while but had so much fun just shooting 44 Colts loaded with a 200 grain Lee and later a 200 grain Mav Dutchman cast lead bullets, I quit for the most part with the 44 Spec smokeless loads. Mostly shoot hotter smokeless 44 Spec loads in my 44 Mag revolvers. I have loaded some 44 Spec loads with black but have never seen any advantage or reason. Few years back switched over to using FF Black and Mav Dutchman's in the 44 Colt. I have loaded up some suitable pressure smokeless loads in 44 Special for the Colts in the last few years, but not many, enjoy the 44 Colt black powder loads more.
In regards is it safe to shoot 44 Specials in a Uberti conversion (Richards II), the 4.75" Open Top listed as 44 Colt, I have no problem chambering or firing 44 Specials in it. Have only done so a few times with the few black powder 44 Specials I loaded up. When loaded, the bullet tip is well into the front of the chamber. Some time back on this forum this discussion came up and several shooters also posted about no trouble in firing 44 Spec ammos in a Uberti marked 44 Colt. Saw a post once that advised Uberti is pretty generous with the chambers in regard to 44 Colt vs 44 Special. A call to Cimarron could give you their take on it. As I stated earlier, 44 Colts get the vast majority of my shooting with the three Uberti Colts. The 44 Specials chamber fully with no resistance and unfired rounds fall freely out of the chambers.
Someone will need to chime in that has loaded both 44 Colt and Russian, if you want to load both those. Some Russian die sets might work on Colt as well, I'm not sure. I do know that the 44 Colt has a smaller rim and uses a different shell holder than 44 Mag/Spcl/Russian.
I use Lee dies for most stuff, has always been fine for me, and they tend to be the least expensive.
Quickest die set for both .44 Russian and .44 (inside lubed) Colt would be to buy Lee's .44 Russian set plus a .44 Colt shell holder. Colt rim is smaller in diameter than the S&W Russian. Use the appropriate shell holder as per case being loaded and then work the case mouth expander and seating dies up or down as to the shorter Russian or longer Colt case. Not much different than using the .44 mag set being used to load .44 Special.
I've been reloading for my open top style Colts since 2007. I have a RCBS 'Cowboy' die set marked for 44 Russian and 44 Special. While I've never loaded or even shot any Russians, any of the die sets marked as will load the Russian, Colt, and Special. Brass height difference is around 1/8" difference respectively for the three. Just have to set the dies accordingly. When I started loading 44 Magnums, I had to buy a 44 Mag bullet seater/crimper as the Russian/Special RCBS die set didn't allow me the extra height needed for seating bullets in 44 Mag brass, which is around another 1/8" higher than the Specials. The carbide sizer die and case mouth expander were ok, dimensions for all three calibers are all the same as far as sizing and any case mouth expanding.
Case holders for a press and/or a primer seater for the Russian and Special are the same. The 44 Colt being slightly smaller in rim size, takes a holder a bit smaller. I use a Lee hand primer and the Special takes a #11 as does the Russian. The 44 Colt uses a #9. Lee press holders are the same numbers as the hand primer (there is a difference in the Lee hand primers and Lee press brass holders construction). A RCBS press takes #18 for the Russian and Special. Read once that the 44 Colt takes the same press holder as the 41 Magnum caliber, a #30. Bought one and its way to tight. Bought a Lee #9 for my press. The Russian and Specials rim diameters run around 0.506- 0.514". The 44 Colt runs 0.479-0.483", a difference of around 0.03", not much but eyeballing them ya can see the difference. FWIW, the 44 Mag takes the same shell holders as the Russian and Special.
I just load and shoot soft cast lead bullets. Started out with a 200 grain Lee flat round nose style bullet but switched over to one of Dick Dastardly's 200 grain Mav Dutchman molds/bullets. They carry more lube than the Lee. Size bullets to .430". Tried .429" but couldn't see much difference so settled on the .430".
As stated, before started out with FFF black, but after reading down in the Storm section of the forum, I switched over to using FF Black in the 44's. Fox Creek Kid had some posts explaining how the FF has a slower pressure curve than FFF resulting in a 'more harmonious outcome'. There's alot of load info on the STORM site if ya do a search, this section also. The 44 Colt isn't a mystery or harder than any other caliber to reload. For smokeless powders, while I've yet to use it in the 44 Colt, it would be no different than in the 44 Special, you'd just have to reduce the charge some. In the 44 Special I had good luck with Titegroup, Win 231/Hodg HP38, Trail Boss, tried some RedDot. The 44 Russian wouldn't be much different, just have to find a powder that works and adjust the charge accordingly. Not a whole lot of 44 Colt loads from the 'big' powder and bullet companies. More info is around now though than back in 2007 when I first started loading for the 44 Colt. Hope some of this lengthy rambling helps ya Pappy. Good Luck.
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I would suggest that starting out, you look closely at the Lee Turret Press kit. It can be set up to learn on as a single stage, and then you can set it up to progress when you get comfortable with it. Also, you will not outgrow it, as you can feel like you will with a single stage press. And with the ability to swap out a turret head, you can set up each head for a complete cartridge. With a single stage, you have to swap out each die for every step of the way.
A Starter kit from Lee will run around $250 for the single stage press and around $300 for the turret kit. This will get you started with everything but the dies and ammunition components.
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Iwas going to recommend the ubiquitus Lee Hand Press since it is portabler, handy, easy-peasy ...
as seen here
(https://leeprecision.com/images/P/90685-02.jpg)
https://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-hand-press.html
until i saw the price has more than doubled! I got mine for $29 ...
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I would suggest that starting out, you look closely at the Lee Turret Press kit. It can be set up to learn on as a single stage, and then you can set it up to progress when you get comfortable with it. Also, you will not outgrow it, as you can feel like you will with a single stage press. And with the ability to swap out a turret head, you can set up each head for a complete cartridge. With a single stage, you have to swap out each die for every step of the way.
A Starter kit from Lee will run around $250 for the single stage press and around $300 for the turret kit. This will get you started with everything but the dies and ammunition components.
Progressive vs single stage press vs turret press always a great debate among reloaders. Uberti vs Pietta vs whatever---same Ol debate among shooters. True if set up right and working as designed, a progressive can outproduce a single stage and/or turret press. A turret press is nothing but a single stage with a revolving head to hold the whole box of needed dies. I've been reloading since Feb of 1976, over the years I've and still do reload for eight handgun and nine rifle cartridges. Reload on the same single stage RCBS RockChucker I bought back then including powder measure and scale. I've added some other this and that over the years but I'm able to reload more ammo than I can shoot or could shoot at any range day or CAS style shoots. Reloading a day here, a day there, spending an afternoon or two can result in alot of ammo in the box.
As penned before I love to reload, the challenge of it and satisfaction or producing accurate and cheaper ammo to enjoy shooting. IMO I can keep a better eye on ammo quality with the single stage vs a progressive as one thing gets out of tune on a progressive, some little quirk on the finished cartridge will detract something from the needed quality. I've read and heard of this from progressive reloaders over the years, maybe only a few rounds will be affected but maybe alot, but the reloader needs to pull bullets, resize, whatever it takes to go back and produce a quality cartridge. Not always the case, but something to watch out for. I know you progressive press, Dillion type fans will howl, but I don't trust em 100%. I watch over each round as an eagle does her hatch.
The turret head presses are only in reality a short cut to avoid changing dies. I'll preform one function on 50-200 rounds such as resize/deprime, flare, etc change dies and go to the next stage depending on what I'm reloading. Changing dies is as easy as changing your socks and shoes after you've done it a few times, ie where and how to set. the turret heads just are IMO as Jeff Cooper advised "An ingenious solution to a non-existent problem."
Midway and Midsouth have some pretty good sale prices on reloading kits at present., checked their Lee's. I always say start with what you need for your shooting but don't try to cut corners as you'll end up buying anyway, but don't go overboard and have things never or not needed. Been there in the early days, seen that with other reloaders. Have heard of and known also of guys wanting to reload, investing $$$ in reloading equipment, then quitting doing so. They've found they don't like to take the time, have the patience, thought it was going to be as easy as loading a firearm, didn't like the needed and required diligence for precision, would state it was easier buying ammo--many ended up boxing up the equipment and/or selling it.
Pappy or any other shooter thinking/wanting to get into reloading, try to find someone in your area that reloads and see what is required and how to do it. Ask questions here and anywhere. Watch out for salespersons in a big box store that tells you what you need. Some of them are knowledgeable, while others take the short course on some shooting/firearm aspect but, well are there to sell. I've seen it personally from them and overheard them advising some customer. Not always the case but have talked with guys that have bought more than needed or spent more than desired. Don't be afraid to ask questions here or to anyone. I'm not fodder for writing columns in some reloading magazine but have alot of experience over the years as many of the members on the forum. JMO-I know others may vary. ;D
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And as Crow Choker so aptly observed that everyone’s going to have different opinions, I’m going to severely disagree with his assessment of turret presses. I’ve used single stage, turret (for the longest time) and progressive presses- and the turret is MUCH MORE than a “place to put the whole box of dies” and a “solution to a nonexistent problem”. If you wanted to treat it as a single stage and not use indexing- sure. But that is one of the advantages of a turret press- you CAN do just that if desired. But they are much more than that. Turret presses are faster, and more self-contained than a single stage- eliminating the need for loading blocks or trays. A properly set up turret press allows you to sit down and make as many or as few rounds at a time as you’d like- eliminating the need to do “batches”, and equipped with a good auto powder measure, greatly reduces the chance of an overcharge or squib as long as you keep the hopper full. As someone who has moved on to a progressive, my recommendation would be for a Lee Classic Turret over a single stage any day of the week. Superb press for the money.
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Iwas going to recommend the ubiquitus Lee Hand Press since it is portabler, handy, easy-peasy ...
as seen here
(https://leeprecision.com/images/P/90685-02.jpg)
https://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-hand-press.html
until i saw the price has more than doubled! I got mine for $29 ...
I started with one of those and still have it in my reloading bag.
It will come in handy if ever needed in the field. I also keep my old balance
beam scale in the same bag for the same reason. I use a LEE Breech Lock
Challenger press, a Lee Perfect Powder Measure and a Hornady G2-1500
Digital Powder Scale on my bench at home but all of that is too cumbersome
to take anywhere if needed to.
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When I first got into reloading, I really wasn't sure if it was something I would really enjoy, so I didn't want to invest a lot of money. I shopped around on several on-line retailer sites, and settled on the Lee anniversary single stage kit because it looked like the most bang for the buck. That was several years ago. I'm still using it. Never felt the need to upgrade to a turret or progressive. I just set down at the reloading bench, turn on the radio, and go off into my own little world.
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As Ten Bears stated in Josey Wales "There's iron in your words" Little Dalton. A turret has its place, no argument, but I like to perform individual reloading steps to a bunch of brass of a certain caliber one at time. Resize/deprime all I want to reload, flare the mouth (except for bottle neck rifle brass), prime (use an older model Lee hand primer), dump powder, seat bullet/crimp. For handgun ammo I either use a Lee bullet crimper after seating the bullet or turn the bullet seating stem up and use the bullet seating die to crimp as a separate step. I and alot of others I've read feel a better more uniform crimp is attained this way.
I just like to keep track of how the individual steps are performing, being able to correct any thing that may need fine tuning. 99% of the time everything works as expected, ie set. Might be alot of overkill and take a bit more time, but rarely rarely rarely have a problem round. Glad there are the options we have for reloading. I will say if I were to shoot 2-3 times a week and go to shoots three weekends out of the month in warmer Iowa weather, I could change my mind but could have to burn the midnight oil to keep up with my faithful ol RockChucker. ;D
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I have been going to local gunshows and seeing used reloading equipment dirt cheap. No shipping either! ;D
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I started with a used Lee 3-hole turret in around '98, for $79 with 44 mag dies (I was loading for an Anaconda). Upgraded to 4-hole later. No auto-index, I do it by hand. I run small batches, usually 100 rounds at a time, and love the 15 second caliber change. I fill loading trays with the empty brass first, to inspect for cracks. Then size/deprime all. Then prime all with RCBS hand primer. Then back to the press for powder drop (sometimes that is hand dipped), bullet seat, and Lee factory crimp. A couple years ago I bought an old Dillon 550 (2nd year production), and doing my higher volume loading on that now (.38's and .45 Colt) and love it. I like the hand indexing on that as well, and can use it as a single stage if I want.
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Does it have 44 special chambers? It will be marked on the underside of the barrel. I believe most are so chambered and is fine to do so. Most run 200 grainers at 650-750 fps, ie 44 Colt ballistics.
My two older guns are only marked 44 colt. My new on is marked both. The 44 special will fit the older guns cylinder
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Over 30 years I have accumulated a dozen old military rifles in a dozen different calibers. Each rifle has it's associated issue handgun to go with it. I also have 2 dozen Lee 4 hole turrets preset to load them, on one press. A press I got at a pawn shop nearly 30 years ago.
I love this system. But as my wife says, I'm "special". ;D
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=44+Colt+and+Russian+dies&_sacat=0
a coupla hours left ! no dog in the hunt, just happen to see them on eBay
if you miss that... then
https://www.ebay.com/itm/221189843963?hash=item337ff12bfb:g:DlwAAOSwU7BhOP82&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8CMoGCdcIDbTROIppuaRIYuOfP4C5%2BIWuItMzvx8UiFp%2BZYvjBMbYHE%2BuIrlKUsongs%2Bm112eBv2ZsjIzlgsBKxZtGSEB4MnLzXg3v4bQbothRTSsYYCfUe4DZQjbKtg2feR3GKCynH2nFGDVfAr8L3XH62VKnMd6g2s3zZOm2DB89eUqklZN%2BRbLEQInBYg8X5QgSOYCHefxjRKEFHi3cN%2BY641AdKD4w2dC8VpZRAiOvQoVRSvJy5lfZOZd6W6QjR8yGIWI30NooVjI56Cu0zwFPYmgjBBJHUGHUQah20lJezgiNRpj8KuyEVRjuyoQQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8iNlL36YQ
Plus 2 (DeaconKC & Drydock) on the Lee Classic Turret Press
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:) Hey Everbody ;)
I gotta agree on the Lee Classique Turret Press. Several Lustrum ago, when I was actively chasing the Brass Rings and was shooting about 5,000 rounds a month, I NEEDED a high capacity Progressive. Dillon 650. Two of 'em. One is now going back to Dillon for a much needed rebuild. Starting out, one doesn't need that type of press, especially for a single caliber. The Lee turret press will serve yeomanly for Lustrum to come.
As an aside, at one time, Cimarron was having Uberti mark lots of Open
Tops as "44 Colt" even when chambered for 44 Special. Seems some folks just couldn't get around an Open Top in a more "modern" cartridge. Heck, I've even got two .44 Barrels marked for 44-40. Uberti never chambered an Open Top en 44-40. Go figure.
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My two older guns are only marked 44 colt. My new on is marked both. The 44 special will fit the older guns cylinder
Pappy,
I am only making a 'guess' with my next statements but correct me if I am wrong. I would 'guess' that you put a loaded crimped 44Spec in those 44Colt chambers and it went in and 'fit'. I did the same thing with my 44Colt marked Open Top (2001). BUT, did you try inserting a sized unloaded casing into those very same chambers. 'I did' and it would not fully seat, it stuck out the back of the cylinder some, because the 44 Spec length was too long for the throat step in my cylinders. A true 44 Colt only that could and did handle/fire 44 Russians.
If I am incorrect great but IF NOT try the empty casing first before firing a 44Spec. That crimp will allow it to fit/seat flush but if that round is fired the crimp will unfold into the chamber throat building too much pressure.
Hope this helps you.
PS -- as far as reloading dies, I have a set of RCBS 44 Spec/Mag that I then bought an extra 44 Spec Seating die off of Ebay and shortened it for the 44 Colt length only(44 Spec would not work for me without shortening the RCBS die). I decided to just buy the LEE 44 Russian carbide set, because at the time (2002) I could not find a set of RCBS dies anywhere. Now there are more of them available on Ebay.
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Like Drydock, I got into Milsurps, (namely 303 brit, 30-40 Kreg, 30-06 & 8MM Label)
(I did dabble with 308 and Swiss Vetterli 10mm using cut down Label brass)
I also roll my own 32/20, 45 ACP, Auto Rim & 7.65 Mauser plus assorted Cowboy calibers.
It was the Milsurps and the need for both 44 Russian and the 32/20 (for my original guns)
that I need to load for.
I first bought a Lyman Turret Press w/ six turret holes, this setup remains for the 30-40 & the Label.
What sold me on the Lee Classic was the simple quick load removable turrets.... @ $11 each
These I have set up for each of my most loaded calibers, quick change no muss, no fuss.
Best part was I bought the Lee Classis for $108 brand spanking new.
I don't load 1000's of rounds a month, maybe a couple of hundred at most,
so the Dillon though desirable would-be like driving a * Porsche 911 Turbo to a kids socker practice.*
* I LOVE TO BUT it isn't going to happen :)
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In the first few years of the Cimarron Opentops, most .44's were marked 44 Colt but some were marked .44 Russian, and they would only chamber those rounds (the 44 Colt would chamber 44 Russian, but not vice versa, and none would chamber the Special). Then when they added the 44 Special (and dropped the 44 Russian not long after), some of the cylinders in the 44 Colt marked guns would chamber 44 Special and some would not. They used Black Hills dummy rounds in all calibers for checking function (regular rounds with a clear plastic "primer" ). You could drop 44 special dummies in some of the 44 Colt cylinders and it seemed like they fit, but they weren't totally seated in the chamber and the cylinder wouldn't turn. When a customer wanted 44 Special and only 44 Colt were in stock, they had a 44 Spcl hand reamer to turn the Colts into Specials. I did a number of those. They finally eliminated the Colt altogether as well as slowly phasing out options like charcoal blue on those guns because as more and more models of all types of cowboys guns became available, there were just too many to stock and cash flow was impacted.
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A few of these https://www.ebay.com/itm/162492368280?epid=1610442476&hash=item25d54cc598:g:LSUAAOSwKfJbYGlT&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8F6yqTHMEwdVUKHcXfiInAeNrDh9Do8UfyV6JUuhSg%2FFCaqvv06bcBTOp8mDqvdW3odV9WX%2BP29Y9c%2BqiAlEtaNg9voZXCZLHV2OiMU5XrKL4Ma81%2BE1HLs%2BuVdna2KjdIiapd7UWpqzjLq%2BtKoY4qJvVAT%2FMoWjeEjVKuDeUbEToVuBl3hx64AVmu%2BUL%2B994Klzd9AaKjJxgn1To3sYnRpY%2Bv724pclOo0chUCTxf5J1YXFNDkCBzdbewRe8fk1sxGOLP34QHJirBlgxacUQqOD3wllbfw5r2s6T22MioCrHGYjGDObSg%2FT1bkzCUKagw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMzLC2_fxh really speeds things up. He makes them for other powder measures as well.
I've bought a number of Lee Perfects at sales and such for under $20, so a fair few of my more often loaded rounds have their own powder measure preset and mounted with one of these adapters. FWIW they work great with 777 powder.
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Is there no company making 44 Colt/Russian ammo? Can't see to find any. Anyone in my area of Independence MO that does reloading?
44 Russian and 44 Colt ammo are quite different and require different equipment. Heel type bullets require a heeled bullet crimp die like this:
https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop/ols/products/44-colt-heel-seated-crimp-die (https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop/ols/products/44-colt-heel-seated-crimp-die)
Also 44 Colt heel bullets are totally different. Cases for 44 Colt are also unique.
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Historically this is true. But current production by Uberti all use .429 barrels and chamber throats.
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Historically this is true. But current production by Uberti all use .429 barrels and chamber throats.
So far the OP has not said if the gun is a reproduction or an original. If it's a Uberti they are fine with 44 Special ammo. At least mine is. I am in Tulsa and reload 44 Russian too so that's an option for the OP.
44 Colt is a whole other thing and I do not have the equipment for that. You might be able to fire a 44 Russian in a gun chambered for 44 Colt but the bullet would rattle around in the barrel and it would not be accurate.
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He's asking about a Uberti Richards II. This has a .429 barrel and cylinder throat. I load Heel Base rounds myself, 11mm French revolver, .440 Argentine, and 10.4 Italian. Use OWBM crimp dies for all of them, they make great stuff.
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:) Hi RoyceP ;)
Ah well, not quite. If loading "original" 44 Colt, you would be correct. However, modern 44 Colt cartridges are the same case diameter as 44 russian, just with a slightly smaller rim. They (modern 44 Colt) load just the same as any of the other modern .44 cartridges. Lots of folks describe the .44 Russian and 44 Colt as 44 Magnum Short and Ultra Short.
A modern built Uberti Open Top, chambered for 44 Colt utilizes standard .429 bullets, inside lubed, same same as .44 Magnum and .44 Russian. There was a time when Uberti Ope Tops for Cimarron would not chamber .44 Special. I haven't seen one of those guns for years.
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:) Hi RoyceP ;)
Ah well, not quite. If loading "original" 44 Colt, you would be correct. However, modern 44 Colt cartridges are the same case diameter as 44 russian, just with a slightly smaller rim. They (modern 44 Colt) load just the same as any of the other modern .44 cartridges. Lots of folks describe the .44 Russian and 44 Colt as 44 Magnum Short and Ultra Short.
A modern built Uberti Open Top, chambered for 44 Colt utilizes standard .429 bullets, inside lubed, same same as .44 Magnum and .44 Russian. There was a time when Uberti Ope Tops for Cimarron would not chamber .44 Special. I haven't seen one of those guns for years.
I got mine maybe 10 years ago. It has 44 Cal stamped on the front of the trigger guard. I am unaware of any "modern" 44 Colt caliber like you are talking about. The 44 Russian I load, 44 special is another one. My Uberti open top shoots to point of aim with the 44 Russian loaded very conservatively.
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RoyceP you stated "I got mine maybe 10 years ago. It has 44 Cal stamped on the front of the trigger guard. I am unaware of any "modern" 44 Colt caliber like you are talking about."
Here is the modern Starline 44Colt brass --- https://www.starlinebrass.com/44-colt-brass
As Starline states -- It is a shortened 44Spec with the correct 0.484 rim diameter. Most of us use it with an inside lubed bullet to simulate an original but fired through a 0.429 barrel (modern Uberti's or others) rather than the original 0.454 barrels of the percussion era.
This Modern brass has been around since the late '90's or at least 2000. Do some searches and you will learn all about its use in CAS and the Modern repro Conversions.
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"Modern" .44 Colt dates to the mid 90s, when Armi San Marco offered the first of the Richards conversions chambered in the round, (I still have one of these) Uberti picked it up soon after ASM went under, offering it in their various open top/conversion revolvers. The last few years they've simply ran the chambers further out to accommodate .44 spl brass. Black Hills offered the caliber for nearly 20 years, only dropping it a couple of years ago, and Starline still makes the brass. My ASM RIchards and both my Uberti .44 Open Tops will only accept the Colt length brass or shorter. THe number of ASM/Uberti .44 Colts far exceeds the orginal 8000 or so of Colts production in the 1870s.
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"Essentially a 44 SPL. but .050" shorter with a smaller diameter rim (Same as 41 Mag). Originally used in Colt 1860 cartridge conversion revolvers. Use RCBS #30 (may require slight modification to clear extractor groove) or #21 shell holder, or Lee #3."
Looks like a typical shortened 44 SPL case - I wonder if it could be used with real heeled bullet 44 Colt? Interesting but I will keep reloading and shooting 44 Russian.
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Yes, it can and it has. It is dimensionally identical to the original .44 Colt case. Only the bullet is different.
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The load that shoots to point of aim on my revolver is 6.5 Grains of Unique powder in a 44 Russian case with a powder coated Lead Semi Wadcutter 240 grain from my local reloading store. I am using Starline brass. Primers are Federal Large Magnum.