Need help Kirst or R&D conversion

[Pappy Hayes]

I purchased 58 Remmy with the plan to get a conversion cylinder for it. I have seen other pards opinions in another post, but still undecided which to use. Here are my pros and cons that I keep going through my mind(what little I have). Hopefully pards you can help narrow it down. What did you base your decission on?

Kirst konverters
pros - cartridges easly seen, straight line cylinder bore, ported w/gate available.
cons - only five shot, uneasy about grinding port(never done this kind of work before)
    note-really like the civil war cylinder but it does not look like you can see the rims so question if it would be SASS legal

R&D
pros - 6 shot cylinder, thin back plate looks more original
cons - not sure about the angle of the cylinder, does not look like rims can be seen making it difficult to tell if on empty cylinder
  by other posts it looks like they are allowed at SASS shoots, how are they checked to be sure they are on the empty one?

[Silver Creek Slim]

Well, I didn't have to make a decision since the brace I bought already had the R&D cylinders.

There are allowed for SASS shoots. Empty chamber? One of the firing pins is silver colored which is next to a "locating" hole/pin. The others are blued. So, ya keep the chamber that is under the silver firing pin empty. Make sure ya explain to the person at the loading table what you are doing.

Slim

[Trap]

  I have both. I personally like the kirst better, seems to line up and switch easier. since we do alot of reloads on the clock, I prefer it. the only disadvantage is the 5 shot capacity. don't know how that would affect youn in SASS. I shoot almost exclusively NCOWS.
                                                                                       jt

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[Marshal Will Wingam]

Don't let the angled cartridge bother you. My R&D's are all tack-nailers. the new conversions have a little slot ground in them (like the original rimfire conversions) and you can see the cartridges easily through that. They're the easiest guns I have to check for being on an empty cylinder. I understand it is SASS legal, too. The only drawback I see is when you need to do a reload. R&D is working on a gated conversion and I may pick one of those up after it's available. It'll be a six-shooter, too. We had one stage recently that required 6 pistol shots with one pistol. I just loaded all six and put the cylinder in on the clock.

The Kirst, on the other hand, looks much like one of the factory gated conversions I saw pictures of. I just don't like the 5-shot capability for SASS. I shoot a pair of 38's so the Kirst .38 conversion is a 6-shot cylinder so that's not a problem for my main match guns. In .45 it would be a consideration.

[Kiehlroy]

Hey guys,  I'm in the same dilemma.  This weekend I'm gonna buy either an R&D or a Kirst.  I've been leaning towards the R&D because I was told that it'll be less likely to have to have it fitted to my 2004 Pietta 1858 nma.  My main priority is that I dont have to mail my gun out to whereever to have it machined as I will be treking into the woods soon and would like to take it with.
5 shot/6 shot capacity does not matter, just drop in ability.

Thanks,
Micah

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Welcome, Kiehlroy. Welcome to town. I can't advise on which one to get but My R&D's dropped in my Ubertis just fine. One needed a slight bit of the frame relieved slightly so it wouldn't rub, but that's all. I haven't had any experience with Piettas. I guess you could always get both and see which works. LOL, then you could buy another pistol for the other one (any excuse to buy a Remmie is a good one).

[Yankee John]

The R&D in my Remy with 5 1/2" barrel works flawlessly.  Looks & shoots like it was made as a cartridge gun in the first place.  My pistol was made in 2004 also, and the conversion cylinder dropped in with zero fiddl'in.

John

[Kiehlroy]

Thanks for the replies guys, and the warm welcome.  I would like another Remmie or three,  but for now I can only afford to jazz up the two I got.  I've only had em for a few months but now I'm an addict.  BTW, does anyone know if the R&D will accept the .45 Schofield?  I understand that the Kirst will accept the Schofield which is an interesting option.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I've heard that the new R&D will accept Schofields if you order it that way. You would want to double check that before ordering them, though.

[jiminy criquet]

Kirst has 'reintroduced' the 6 shot cylinders in .45 or .38 for the Remington revolvers. (Halfway down the page.)
http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/konverterdropin.html

For what it's worth...you don't need to port the frame.  I have one of the original Kirst cylinders with the solid backplate on a Pietta, and that is one of the smoothest, freewheeling revolvers I own.  Dropping out the cylinder, dumping the contents, reloading the cylinder, and shoving it back in the gun is actually faster than unloading/loading a SAA.

[Pappy Hayes]

Thanks pards for your replies. Jiminy Criquet, the 6 shot Kirst does not shot 45s. You must purchase a special 44 Remington cartridge that they sell. They are pricy. I think I will go with the R&D for now and get the one that shoots 45 Scofeld. I am going to use it as back up to my Open Top and RM Army 44s and for fun. If R&D comes out with a ported one or Kirst actually makes his ported in a 6 shot I will have to purchase another gun and try my hand at making the port.

[Parson Colt]

I love my R&Ds.  They are the most accurate 45 Colt revolvers I have ever owned.  Check out my article at the SCORRS website.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I love my R&Ds.  They are the most accurate 45 Colt revolvers I have ever owned.  Check out my article at the SCORRS website.

Mine are, too. I had R&D sleeve a pair to .38 spl and they're just as accurate.

[Pappy Hayes]

Another option I am thinking about is buyin another Remmy and have it sleeved to shoot the modern 44COlt  and order a cylinder from R&D for the 44Colt. I would have to convince my better half that I need another gun.

[jiminy criquet]

My understanding is that the .44 Remington is the .44 Colt, which can be made from a .44 Special case.  Basically it's a slightly shorter case with a slightly smaller rim.

See this thread for more information:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=5384.0

[Pappy Hayes]

The 44 Remington that River Junctions sells uses a heeled bullet. The 44 Colt ammo you can buy from Black Hills is not a heeled bullet. But if the deminssions of the 44 Remington and the 44 Colt are the same, then one should be able to use the 44 Colt in the 6 shot Kirst cylinder and have the barrel sleeved to the .429 of the 44 Colt.

[Smokin Gun]

Another option I am thinking about is buyin another Remmy and have it sleeved to shoot the modern 44COlt  and order a cylinder from R&D for the 44Colt. I would have to convince my better half that I need another gun.

Who does Sleeve Rems for .44SPL or .433"? R&D won't do ...everyonre tells me you can't sleeve a .452 Pietta Rem to .433 cause it would be to thin. Can you buy an 1875 Rem barrel and mount it on an 1858?

[Grapeshot]

Sleeving a barrel to .429 for the Remington 1858 should be a snap for the guys at R&D.  When you sleeve a barrel, you bore the barrel out to accept another barrel of smaller dimensions.  It's like putting one pipe inside another.  Since it is usually silver soldered in place, it is as strong, if not stronger than the original barrel alone.

R&D have been sleeving barrels for almost 20 years when making their 1851 and 1860 cartridge conversions, so I wouldn't wory about sleeving a Pietta Pappy, unless you are told by the guys at R&D that they can't or won't work on the Pietta.

[Smokin Gun]

Grapeshot thats exactly what the owner told me whan I ask to have them convert my Pietta Paterson to .38LC. Oh wel...
I am looking at the .44Rem/Colt with a .429" heel and .451" drive rings on the bullet 248grs I think. It is like th early Rem drop -ins post Civil War I think. ^shot .44 heeled.
Here's the Kirst site... http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/konverterdropin.html

[Bottom Dealin Mike]

I've used both brands, and they are both good. As far as I'm concerned the choice is pretty simple:

If you want to port it and load conventionally, go with Kirst.

If you want to load off the gun go with R&D. Their back plate is more authentic. The anchor pin keeps the back plate from rotating as you install it into the gun (Kirsts tend to move around in my hand). R&D are six shots and the cartridge angle is one hallf of one degree...not an issue at all. The slots in the backplate make cartridge rims visible, and they accept .45 Sch as well as .45 Colt.