Author Topic: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party  (Read 537 times)

Offline DEL56

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Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« on: December 26, 2021, 12:29:20 PM »
I had a party of Norwegian Krags come to live in my gun safe this Christmas. What a blessed man I am! Can hardly wait for the new GAF season to begin so I can start shooting them. Well, I'm sure I will have shot them long before that starts though. Already have dies, brass, mold, gas checks, powder and projectiles. I see fun on my horizons this winter!

The first one was a Norwegian Krag Calvary Carbine 1899 I found strolling through the internet just before Thanksgiving. I tried to make a trade deal with the place but it didn't work out. After all the haggling I just decided to sell a couple of shooters in my safe and purchase it. Decided that on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. The guy at the shop told me to hold off until Friday. I asked him why and he told me the shop will be having a Black Friday Sale and I would be able to save 20% plus free shipping. BINGO! What a deal. It is in gorgeous shape and is all original including the blueing. It is serial #2209 our of a production of 2350 by the end of 1900 according to Brophy's book. I even got an original dust cover for the muzzle.

The second one happened a week later when I won it on GunBroker. It is a Norwegian Steyr Krag made in 1897. It is serial #350. Yes, that's right #350. I had been watching and bidding on it previously but lost out to someone else. Then all of a sudden it appeared again on GunBroker. Seems the guy that bought it wasn't happy with is so he sent it back and it was relisted. I jumped on it again and got it this time. I was surprised that when I disassembled it to clean and examine it that every part in this rifle is numbered 350 except the screws. I am incredibly glad to have gotten it. I have added the sling and an origin Steyr Bayonet for it which I picked up on Ebay.

The third one happened by pure accident. I had just gotten home with these two rifles from my FFL and sat down to check emails and give feedback on the Steyr Krag for GunBroker. I had a saved search for Norwegian Krags and I noticed an email telling me of one for sale. I thought it was the one I had already purchased, but it wasn't. It was another one that had just been listed an hour before. It was the 1901 Norwegian Krag and it had a Buy It Now price of $899. I couldn't help myself as my fingers all by themselves went and clicked the Buy It Now. It does have some holes in the receiver for a Norwegian Peep sight which is talked about in the Brophy and Mallory books. Not sure if someone did them later, or maybe it ws done in the military some time ago in Norway. Either way it is worth the price. Heck, you can't get a decent US Springfield Krag for that $$$.

Now all I need is to get my hands on a Nagant Brevet revolver to finish out the guns for Norway. Anyone know where I can get one? If so, let me know. I am looking at having a uniform made and have a guy making the leather belt, ammo pouches and reproduction leather slings. I'm thinking it will all come together by Spring.

Then I will look for a Norwegian 1912 Carbine and have most of the Norwegian guns. Might have to get a Danish Krag too finish up the Krag International heritage too.

Offline Baltimore Ed

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2021, 01:11:35 PM »
Really like those full stocked beauties. Really like the ‘C’ stocks.
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Offline Cap'n Redneck

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2021, 04:35:43 PM »
@ Del56:  Congrats!
I would like to share some additional info about the three guns:

The cavalry carbine is designated as Model 1895.
The two infantry rifles are designated as Model 1894.

Norwegian Krag's have the year of manufacture stamped onto the receiver, not the model designation.

It looks like the Steyr has the unaltered rear sight with the "high arch", sighted for roundnose bullets.
Sometime in the 1920s we changed over to the more flat-shooting "spitzer"-bullets, and the rear sights of most of the rifles had the arch ground down at the armory.  The altered sights should have the letter "D" stamped on the base.

The rifle with the mounting holes for a peep sight has most likely seen service in the Norwegian equivalent to the NRA.  The Norwegian Army had a few sniper rifles made with peepsights from about 1923.

The Steyr-made Krag's were especially valued in the Norwegian NRA because the action was even slicker than the Kongsberg-made ones.

If You care to share the serialnumber of the last rifle, I can look them up in the Norwegian "Bible" on Krag's and perhaps find out were/if they served in the spring of 1940.
"As long as there's lead in the air, there's still hope..."
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Offline Cap'n Redneck

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2021, 05:24:20 PM »
Norwegian & Swedish used Nagant-revolvers can be found in the classifieds of www.FINN.no:

The first one is one of the first 2600 that can be documented as manufactured in 1887/88 by Nagant in Liege, Belgium for the Swedish officer corps.  These are considered antique guns under Norwegian Gun Law, but still require an export permit....go figure.  They are seldom sold under $1000,- but the askingprice of Nkr. 29.000,- (around $3400,-) is wishful thinking in my opinon...
(note that the only visual difference between a Swedish and a Norwegian Nagant is in the shape of the front sight; the Swedish revolvers having a sight that is square front and back.  Norwegian Nagant's have a sight shaped like two slightly offset quarters of a circle.)

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=241098177

These two Norwegian models are made in the early 1890s, registered under Norwegian Law, and priced reasonably at Nkr. 1500,- each.  (about $ 180,-)

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=240498369

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=239015469

A slightly nicer & costlier one:

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=220022010

Original holsters bring as much as the gun itself:

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=211497763



"As long as there's lead in the air, there's still hope..."
Frontiersman & Frontiersman Gunfighter: The only two categories where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s.

Offline DEL56

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2021, 06:09:30 PM »
@ Del56:  Congrats!
I would like to share some additional info about the three guns:

The cavalry carbine is designated as Model 1895.
The two infantry rifles are designated as Model 1894.

Norwegian Krag's have the year of manufacture stamped onto the receiver, not the model designation.

It looks like the Steyr has the unaltered rear sight with the "high arch", sighted for roundnose bullets.
Sometime in the 1920s we changed over to the more flat-shooting "spitzer"-bullets, and the rear sights of most of the rifles had the arch ground down at the armory.  The altered sights should have the letter "D" stamped on the base.

The rifle with the mounting holes for a peep sight has most likely seen service in the Norwegian equivalent to the NRA.  The Norwegian Army had a few sniper rifles made with peepsights from about 1923.

The Steyr-made Krag's were especially valued in the Norwegian NRA because the action was even slicker than the Kongsberg-made ones.

If You care to share the serialnumber of the last rifle, I can look them up in the Norwegian "Bible" on Krag's and perhaps find out were/if they served in the spring of 1940.

Thanks for the information. I was mostly intending to inform you of the year they were produced and not the model .number. The Norwegian 1894 made in 1901 is Serial #53503. And it has the D on the rear sight.

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #5 on: Today at 06:44:14 PM »

Offline DEL56

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2021, 06:12:05 PM »
Norwegian & Swedish used Nagant-revolvers can be found in the classifieds of www.FINN.no:

The first one is one of the first 2600 that can be documented as manufactured in 1887/88 by Nagant in Liege, Belgium for the Swedish officer corps.  These are considered antique guns under Norwegian Gun Law, but still require an export permit....go figure.  They are seldom sold under $1000,- but the askingprice of Nkr. 29.000,- (around $3400,-) is wishful thinking in my opinon...
(note that the only visual difference between a Swedish and a Norwegian Nagant is in the shape of the front sight; the Swedish revolvers having a sight that is square front and back.  Norwegian Nagant's have a sight shaped like two slightly offset quarters of a circle.)

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=241098177

These two Norwegian models are made in the early 1890s, registered under Norwegian Law, and priced reasonably at Nkr. 1500,- each.  (about $ 180,-)

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=240498369

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=239015469

A slightly nicer & costlier one:

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=220022010

Original holsters bring as much as the gun itself:

https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=211497763

Hey Cap'n Redneck,

Thanks for the information on the Brevet Nagants. I knew most of that, but had not been able too ind any here for sale. Thanks for showing them to me. Now how would I get it and then get it here to the US without a lot of problems and hassles? I don't know how you would go about all that. Otherwise I would buy one.

Offline Cap'n Redneck

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2021, 06:42:21 PM »
The guy selling this gun;  https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html?finnkode=239015469
Mr. Finn Lium, is an experienced gun collector, hunter and registered gun dealer in Norway.
He would probably be able to arrange the export of this gun.

I could also ask a local gun collector / gun dealer who has recently established a business in Kentucky.
He might be interested in selling some Nagant revolvers on the US market....
"As long as there's lead in the air, there's still hope..."
Frontiersman & Frontiersman Gunfighter: The only two categories where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s.

Offline DEL56

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2021, 06:54:15 AM »
Hey Cap'n Redneck,

Again its of helpful information and I highly appreciate it. I would need the information to contact the guy in KY who might sell a Nagant. I would also like to get my hands on the holster if that is possible as well. The uniform I was thinking of using is a Norwegian Navy since it is so similar to the Us and other Navys around the world at that time and I can adapt a US one to the Norwegian style without a lot of trouble. But the Army and Cavalry uniforms are a bit difficult. I have seen a few pictures in a Museum in Norway on line for the Army, but nothing for the Cavalry. Seems like the Cavalry had a different color and style. I found lots of information on Sweden, but not Norway. Do you know of any place where I might be able to obtain the uniforms. If you would like, you can PM me any of that information. Or if you have a FaceBook account and are able to video chat or just audio chat, PM me that information as well. Thanks and God bless!

Offline DEL56

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2021, 07:06:04 AM »
Cap'n Redneck,

Here is the only place I have found good pictures of Norwegian Uniforms:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_uniforms_of_Norway_(19th_century)#/media/File:HÆREN_(Norwegian_Army)_UNIFORM_1894_INFANTERIST_(Regular_infantryman_Norway-Sweden)_Mørk_blå_røde_passepoiler_Fransk_kepi_Krag-Jørgensen_rifle_M1894_etc_Bergenhus_festningsmuseum_Military_Museum_Bergen_Norway_6981.jpg
 

Offline Cap'n Redneck

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2021, 06:26:38 PM »
On the whereabouts of Norwegian Krag's in 1940:

The 1895 Cavalry carbine # 2209;  serialnumbers 2198 - 2227 were in storage at "Hovedarsenalet" (the Main Arsenal) in Oslo.  By 1940 most of the 1895 carbines had seen a lot of service, and they had been replaced by the M1912 Carbine (which is actually a general service "Short Rifle").

The 1894 Infantry rifle # 350;  serialnumbers 12 - 421 were in storage at IR10 (Infantry regiment no. 10) in Bergen.

The 1894 Infantry rifle # 53503;  serialnumbers 50492 - 53791 were partly in storage at Trondheim Arsenal in Middle Norway, and partly in storage at the Army's 6th. Division, headquartered in Harstad in Northern Norway. 
Now this is where it gets interesting: 
The 6th. Division mobilized under Major-General Carl Gustav Fleischer and marched south to occupied Narvik and with the help of British, French and Polish expeditionary forces were the first Allied ground force to (temporarily) defeat their Nazi opponents during WW2.

Without in-depth searching of archives it is not possible to say with certainty that # 53503 has "battle provenance" from Narvik....but the possibility is there.
"As long as there's lead in the air, there's still hope..."
Frontiersman & Frontiersman Gunfighter: The only two categories where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s.

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #10 on: Today at 06:44:14 PM »

Offline DEL56

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Re: Norwegian Krag Christmas Party
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2022, 07:24:59 AM »
Well the Christmas Party just shrunk by one. Had problems with the Cavalry Carbine not wanting to feed the ammo. Took it to my gunsmith and found out someone had changed the barrel which was not chambered for 257 Roberts. What a Bubba move that was! So I contacted the gun shop that sold me the rifle and have returned it for full refund. Sure was looking forward to shooting it in GAF this year. Not much of a chance of finding another Cavalry Carbine, but if one does show up, I'll be on it. So in the mean time I am in the hunt for a good Danish Krag long rifle and hopefully a Danish Krag Carbine. So if you know where I can pick up either of those, let me know. I check all the normal sources of GunBroker, Guns International, Rock Island, ProxiBid, etc. So if it's listed there, I already know about it.

One in Christ,
Dewayne

 

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