Is CAS a thing of the past? Is there any new guns comming out?

[willy]

It seems as if the rage over CAS isn't as high as it was 10 or more years ago.
And why does it seem as though that the imports are not coming in like they use to?
Are they just selling them that fast,, or is it that they are not making them as much?
I heard a while back that Uberti was going to even stop making the 1875 Remington!!!
The last new CAS gun I remember coming out was a copy of the S&w Russian model.
And that was years ago.
Anyone know of any NEW reproductions out in the last five years or in the works that might come out?

[Shotgun Franklin]

As we, the Shooters, age we aren't being replaced by a higher number of Shooters because our Kids and Grandkids didn't grow up on Cowboy Shows. My Son shoots but it's the AR and Pistol like he used in the Service. Also, the guns being produced are copies of what were used back in the day. Why make a gun that really wasn't something that was used back then, that limits development. I have owned 5 revolvers since I started in '97. I've replaced one original with that 5th one. If the guns last you don't have to buy more. My guns easily out last my cars. Without constant buying production drops. I'm very sure that's why SASS adopted Wild Bunch, the need to attack more shooters. Maybe in a few more years SASS will start WWI shoots?

[Hill Beachy]

It seems that Miroku has just started importing a new M1873 Winchester clone, so that's new.

I would also imagine that many of the manufacturers are concentrating on more profitable lines at the moment such as the semi-automatics.

[Advertising]

[Paladin Gun For Hire]

I still see a lot of new shooters coming into the game and feel the demand is still there,think the manufacturers are having a hard time keeping up.

[Major 2]

Miroku M1873 Winchester clone is just a one year deal, and in 38/357 only or so it was stated at Shot.
Course, demand might change their mind.....

USFA is defunk...Colt is well  cut well back on SAA's again... no more Shotguns from S. America, Poland, and Asia.
Pretty much leaves our Friends in Italia, and that may depend on what the FED's force down our & their throats.   

[sharps1863]

I think the start up cost is a big deterent for a new shooter, especially a young shooter.

[St. George]

If they're interested at all, the younger shooters' interests lie more with true 'action shooting' - just like they see in their video games and in today's movies.

To see the costumed 350-pound Grandpas and Bubbas, the static stagecoaches, the sameness of the targets and all, doesn't give them something to emulate, much less try.

Plus - shooting 'anything' costs money, whether it's NSSA, CAS, Trapshooting, Zoot Suit, Zombie Shoots, and IPSC - it's all expensive, and the requisite gear can almost be prohibitive.

I don't see that changing anytime soon - no matter how many do-it-yourself articles are written on creation of the clothing, and all.

Unless a young shooter can borrow all his shooting battery from Dad - he's probably spending what little spare money he's got on school, gas and girls - not in that order - and he's not buying weapons, ammunition or hats.

The shooting sports are expensive sports, and time has to be allotted to them in order to prosper (ask any trapshooter) - and in the case of the younger shooters - time is at a premium.

For the most part, the generation shooting C&WAS grew up with Westerns - with their romance and moral lessons and scenery - their offspring didn't have those same messages delivered on a weekly basis, so contending with the 'Zombie Apocalypse' or with the callous events of 'Grand Theft Auto' seem more immediate to them, but as soon as they see 'their' money disappear downrange at a high rate of speed - leaving empty hulls, and nothing more than smoke and echoes - their interests wane.

For them - paintball's more attractive.

The other thing is that in the intervening years since the demise of the oater on TV, shooting sports and guns or gun collecting have become suspect in our non-shooting society - and those who enjoy the them and appreciate the skills can (and are) viewed as outside the norm and worth keeping an eye on.

Scouts Out!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

St George;  I think you've hit the head on the nail.  My son has the interest and is striving mightily to shoot, raise a family, pursue a career, buy a new house for his growing brood, take the UK deer stalking qualification, gather casting gear, and learn the true art of the Holy Black.  All this on a middle class income. In England where money is tighter than in North America.

Please buy his new book and give him a hand. 

He still manages to make most monthly meets with the Picketts Hill Marshals, plus the occasional sporting clays practice, shoots a few deer, and hopes to do BP target rifle at Bisley when he gets his Sharps talking.

WOW! Once I've written it all down, he is extraordinarily organized, and lucky!

[Grenadier]

How many groups reach out to new young recruits? Invite Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, 4H or other such groups? I remember many years ago attending a BSA function that allowed us to fire blackpowder weapons, I was 13 years old and I have been addicted since. Maybe local groups should try inviting people out to experience the hobby.

It has been my experience that many groups do very little to attract new participants, especially the younger crowd. Many times I have seen older members of shooting and re-enacting groups dismiss the whole crowd of younger individuals as being not interested in shooting or distrustful of even trying to draw new members.

[Abilene]

As far as CAS not growing like it did 10 or so years ago, that is very true.  I think it is mainly the economy.  It is true that younger folks aren't generally interested unless there are older family members already in it.  It has always been that way.  There are still a lot of baby boomers out there who grew up with westerns who would probably like to play if they didn't have to worry about finances.  My own income is about 1/3 now what it was when I started in '99.  I didn't buy a gun for the last 6 years (fortunately I had plenty) and only bought some in the past year  mainly because I wanted to play Wild Bunch, and working for Cimarron allowed me to get some guns at prices low enough to afford.  And really I didn't even have the money for those but I'm now old enough to withdraw from my IRA without penalty 

As for imports coming in as fast as they used to?  Actually they are coming in more than ever.  Pietta and Uberti are both pretty much maxed out with production.  There isn't much in stock at the importers because as soon as a shipment comes in most of it goes right back out to fill backorders.  Believe it or not, CAS shooters account for maybe only 1/4 of sales of these guns.  And Obama being "Gun Salesman of the Year" (again) has boosted sales of not only black guns.

Willy, your comment about the lack of new models coming out is somewhat true, but not to the extent you mention.  Your example of the Russian isn't really relevant because that has been out at least ten years, maybe more.  There just aren't that many made so they aren't seen much.  Since the Russian there have been Type II conversions, '58 conversions, MWNN conversions, 1876 rifles and carbines, Burgess rifle, '87 shotguns, are a few that come to mind.  Now, in the more recent past I think it is mainly new configurations of existing models that have been introduced, like pistols with lowered hammers, 18" '73's, stuff like that.  I know that Pietta has several new items in the works for Cimarron (I can't tell  ) but it may be a while because they are so busy just trying to fill existing orders.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

[willy]

Thanks for the replies.
Now I'll be waiting to see what Pietta has up their sleeve!

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Miroku M1873 Winchester clone is just a one year deal, and in 38/357 only or so it was stated at Shot.
Course, demand might change their mind.....

USFA is defunk...Colt is well  cut well back on SAA's again... no more Shotguns from S. America, Poland, and Asia.
Pretty much leaves our Friends in Italia, and that may depend on what the FED's force down our & their throats.   

Major,

The Winchester rep at the NRA show in Houston indicated a Miroku .44 WCF '73 was planned for delivery in the fall of this year.  They even plan some deluxe models with case hardened receivers.

[Major 2]

They are already being delivered, Grizzly Adams, on the 73 board has his ...I think Davidson's got some too.

They are some kind of 1 year only deal I understand and no other Calibers are in the pipeline,
 demand may speak to them though.  

[Karl]

Locally our young shooters who have shown a passing interest in CAS are being stolen by Airsoft.  Too bad Airsoft doesn't have more cowboy guns.   
The start up cost is much higher than when I got in with a pair of 1851 Navies (I paid more for the leathers than the pistols.) 
We need a really cool Western movie that emphasizes guns to come out. 
Our posse has been asked to participate in an "open house" at the shared range but, like the other shooting groups participating, they are asking us to run interested shooters through some stages but we are having trouble keeping ourselves in ammo.   

On the good side we are generally better dressed and heeled which attracts favorable attention here.

Our shooters are down to about 2/3 over last year here.  Some of this drop is due to work travel but we have been keeping too low a profile locally and at the BBQ following our annual shoot last Saturday we began talking about ways to recruit like posters at the local gun shop(s) and posting shoots in the free community event calendars.  We have also set up a FaceBook page (Juneau Gold Miners' Posse) along with our Yahoo group to keep members aware of shoots.  Does anyone else have any suggestions?

[RickB]

I know the ammo problem is what is affecting my attendance at the shoots this year. I have about 500 rounds of .38 spl and about 400 rounds of .45 to use. I can't find anyone selling .38 right now and hate to shoot up what I have without being able to replenish my supply.

I reload .45 but primers are hard to find and so is bullets. I'll attend a couple of shoots just so I don't get too rusty, but It's hard to watch your supplies dwindle without knowing where you'll get more to keep you in the game.

Major2 and Pancho. That new 73 sure looks nice, but how will the fact that the lever throw is somewhere between a shortstroke and the fulll stroke of an original 73 effect it's use in NCOWS?

I just bought a Uberti 73 that has the stroke like the original 73. The only problem I had with the rifle was it was the trapper model and couldn't take 10 rounds in the mag. I found an article in GOTOW that talked about the Cimarron trapper model where it says they fit 10 rounds in the mag. I ordered the mag spring from Cimarron and installed it in my trapper and now I can get 10 rounds of .38 spl in my trapper.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Locally our young shooters who have shown a passing interest in CAS are being stolen by Airsoft.  Too bad Airsoft doesn't have more cowboy guns.   
The start up cost is much higher than when I got in with a pair of 1851 Navies (I paid more for the leathers than the pistols.) 
We need a really cool Western movie that emphasizes guns to come out. 
Our posse has been asked to participate in an "open house" at the shared range but, like the other shooting groups participating, they are asking us to run interested shooters through some stages but we are having trouble keeping ourselves in ammo.   

On the good side we are generally better dressed and heeled which attracts favorable attention here.

Our shooters are down to about 2/3 over last year here.  Some of this drop is due to work travel but we have been keeping too low a profile locally and at the BBQ following our annual shoot last Saturday we began talking about ways to recruit like posters at the local gun shop(s) and posting shoots in the free community event calendars.  We have also set up a FaceBook page (Juneau Gold Miners' Posse) along with our Yahoo group to keep members aware of shoots.  Does anyone else have any suggestions?

Karl,

A few years ago I helped a local CAS club set up a "new shooter clinic".  We got a local gun shop to donate some cheap 38 reloads and some shotshells.  We had enough ammo for all the new new shooters to make a run at a stage.  The club advertised the event with the gun shop as the "sponsor".

It was a win/win.  The club got a few new members and those new folks took their business to the gun shop.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

They are already being delivered, Grizzly Adams, on the 73 board has his ...I think Davidson's got some too.

They are some kind of 1 year only deal I understand and no other Calibers are in the pipeline,
 demand may speak to them though.  

The current 73 Miroku/Winchesters are all 38.  There are several on Gun Broker right now. 

The .44 WCF (44-40) will be a second run this fall.

[Karl]

Karl,

A few years ago I helped a local CAS club set up a "new shooter clinic".  We got a local gun shop to donate some cheap 38 reloads and some shotshells.  We had enough ammo for all the new new shooters to make a run at a stage.  The club advertised the event with the gun shop as the "sponsor".

It was a win/win.  The club got a few new members and those new folks took their business to the gun shop.

Hi Pancho,

Our one gunshop in town, RAYCO, has more ammo than most of the state right now but still only a hundred rounds of cowboy anything on the shelf and virtually no primers yet.  Lots of brass and shotgun at least.  We talked about this but it is a case of can't get blood from a rock.  We would be hard pressed to find a brand new shooter enough ammo to buy and two or three shooters probably would overwhelm their stock.  We are only going through maybe 40 rifle, 40 pistol, and 24 shot per monthly shoot.  Hopefully this ammo shortage will not last long.   They are ordering constantly at least so with any luck they can start stocking a little more CAS ammo at least. 
We talked about allowing .22 for a while but they can't keep .22 in either. 

I hate sounding so stingy but Juneau has no roads in or out.  We have no ground UPS so ammo has to be barged in aka "the Slow Boat."  You should try getting real black powder here. 

The .38 Special route might work.  We do not have many shooters using .38 but I have a gun or two and maybe other posse members do too.  I can reload .38 and there is still lots of brass and maybe some small primers in town.  Two loaner .38 rigs and at least 400 rounds just might get us through an open house. 

[Major 2]

The current 73 Miroku/Winchesters are all 38.  There are several on Gun Broker right now. 

The .44 WCF (44-40) will be a second run this fall.

That's interesting, I suppose demand spoke to them,  ...If they see a profit Future, then that's very good news.

[Two Spurs]

I wouldn't count CAS out too quick. We older guys might've grown up with 22's and old western movies, but as time goes on and subdivisions grow (around the bigger towns/cities) that is not as common for the younger ones today- thus the alternative shooting toys.

Based on my two boys (young men now) I wouldn't say that paintball and Airsoft are a negative for us.  In fact, I would say it's just one step toward "real gun" shooting sports including CAS. They're interest in firearms started growing in their later teen years.

My precursor to CAS was para military guns at an early age.  Later on my enjoyment with firearms crossed paths with my love for ranching and the old west making cowboy action shooting the perfect combo for me- but it did start with a love for firearms 

By the way- my oldest is 26 and will be officially out of the Army tomorrow. Loves to shoot anything. In this last year he has added 3 C&B pistols to his just started collection and REALLY wants a pair of Schofields.  He said not too far back that he's thinking about trying out CAS.