Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => STORM => Topic started by: Tuolumne Lawman on April 18, 2022, 08:48:44 PM
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In a moment of weakness, I pulled the pin for a new in box Cimarron/Uberti Richards 8" Type II Conversion in .45 Colt. The Price, $585.00, was too good to pass on. I have had Richards-Masons, and Open Tops, but other than a loaner sample in .44 Special and one in .45 for an article, I haven't owned a "keeper" Richards Type II in .45 as a primary SASS gun.
While I load .44 Mag and Special (and have loaded .44 Colt BH), I went with .45 for two reasons. One I load .45 Schofield already for my Kirsts. Second, the ;.45 Schofield is actually closer ballistically to the original .44 Colt than Black Hills's .44 Colt. While Black Hills case is the same as the original, the original bullets (based on the 18 or 20 I have), have a .451 to 454" 220-227 grain heeled bullets. My Schofield have 230 grain 452" bullets.
I am not selling my Kirsts. The Saber River and Avenging Angel are some of my favorite pistols. I just wanted a factory Type II for a long time. I'll probably pair the Type II with the Avenging Angel most of the time, and save the Saber River for special events like the night black powder match at Railroad Flat next month!
(http://i.imgur.com/Ub6jeXK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Ub6jeXK)
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I've had one since 2008 in 44 Colt as my main match all these years.
In NCOWS I use only 1 pistol and one rifle.
Best pointing revolver, I have ever shot
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That's a mighty fine pistol. Congrats.
When I saw the photo, I suspected you would pair it with your Saber River. That will be a great pair.
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Good for you! I love my Type II's. A .44 and a .38. I've put nearly 4000 rounds through the .38. Both of them got Navy grips before I ever shot them. :)
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I was slightly tempted to go .44, but those are running $100 more. Also, while I have .44 special brass, bullets, and dies; I have no .44 Colt brass, so that would be another expense. That would also leave me shooting two different caliber pistols, a .44 and a .45, which would bug my "feng shui".
Below is a picture of six original .44 Colt rounds, with one of my 230 grain RN .45 Schofields in the middle.
(https://i.imgur.com/a5P4F9F.jpg)
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It's a good choice to go with the same caliber on both. On the loading table, it saves the hassle of having to carefully sort ammunition when they're so similar in size and appearance. It definitely saves time when reloading because you just set up once and make a bunch of rounds. Schofield is a good round, too. Plenty of oomph and accuracy to be had with them.
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Ordered some three piece reproduction .44 Colt boxes from the same guy on ebay I got my re-pop 44 Henry boxes. Exact copies. They are $15 each, but REALLY nice! He makes it to order in either .44 Colt/Special size, or .45 Colt size.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175160259662
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I recently purchased one of these. I changed the TG to a brass one, as most of the Type I's were converted from 1860 Army. The Type II's were built as new guns most likely from parts on hand.
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It came in today: I was surprised. Instead of the cylinder crammed against the barrel with the wedge, I could slip a piece of printer paper in the gap! They actually got it right on this one, and the rear face of the barrel assemble is not crammed back at an angle from too tight of a wedge fit.
(https://i.imgur.com/ODQEUHB.jpg)
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Looks good. That should work great with your Saber River.
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I'll probably pair it with the 3" Avenging Angel. Because of its short barrel, its POI is much closer to POA than the 8" Saber River. Like the originals the 8" is dead on at 50 yards, but is 18" high at 25 yards!
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It came in today: I was surprised. Instead of the cylinder crammed against the barrel with the wedge, I could slip a piece of printer paper in the gap! They actually got it right on this one, and the rear face of the barrel assemble is not crammed back at an angle from too tight of a wedge fit.
(https://i.imgur.com/ODQEUHB.jpg)
I highly doubt it. If they got it right, there'll be a "witness mark" on the bottom of the arbor hole as well as the end of the arbor where they make contact. That's a definitive test for sure. (Especially if it's been shot)
Mike
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Its new in box. What is the "Witness Mark"?
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A shiny spot where the two meet. Typically a circle or most of one. Should be something on the end of the arbor as well. I'd post a pic but this site isn't photo friendly. I've posted some pics of the same currently on the Muzzle loading forum (about Belgian 1860 Armys).
Mike
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:) Well ;)
I don't wanna be a Wet Blanket (sure I do). It's a Uberti. I'm also betting it suffers from an ill fitted Barrel to Arbor. I'd have to take it apart and give it the Turn The Barrel on the arbor test. Someone at Uberti may have simply fitted a wedge to "work".
If the Barrel to Arbor fit is correct, hop right out and buy a lotto ticket!!
Play Safe Out There
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Joe Ray's gun
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You are most welcome, mighty handsome gun too.
It looks quite similar to my Kenny Howell Type 1
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OMG! The sickness continues. The boss at the gunshop is going on a trip, and I have to work an extra 5 days to run the shop, open, close, etc, while he is gone. I usually work two days a week for store credit. These five days will be extra, so I opted for a paycheck instead. Just enough to buy a 5.5' Richards Type II to go with my 8". Found one for $560!
(https://i.imgur.com/Gw9E14Q.jpg)
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OMG! The sickness continues. The boss at the gunshop is going on a trip, and I have to work an extra 5 days to run the shop, open, close, etc, while he is gone. I usually work two days a week for store credit. These five days will be extra, so I opted for a paycheck instead. Just enough to buy a 5.5' Richards Type II to go with my 8". Found one for $560!
(https://i.imgur.com/Gw9E14Q.jpg)
Wouldn't be interested in trading that 5" for an 8" wouldja?
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:) Golly Gee ;)
Some Lustrum ago, I lusted heavily for the Type II replicant. Bought a pair. At was a mistake. I found them to be some heavier and more clunky than the original sample examples. Balance was horrible. I had decided to cut the barrels (were 8") to the Ejector Housing(s) when I received and offer I couldn't refuse for the guns uncut. Sold 'em on. Have never missed um.
This missive doesn't really add much to the fun and frivolity of the current thread. It is however, Sunday Morning. My Caffeine Low Light is on bright and I'm bored out of my skull. So the above sharing of experience was something to do. So I dood it. Therefore, if you've gotten this far into my narrative, it's too late. You're already here. Nanny Nanny Poo Poo
Avoid People. They be Hazardous to Yer Health
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Wouldn't be interested in trading that 5" for an 8" wouldja?
Nope, sorry! Want the short barrel for my cross draw!
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:) Golly Gee ;)
Some Lustrum ago, I lusted heavily for the Type II replicant. Bought a pair. At was a mistake. I found them to be some heavier and more clunky than the original sample examples. Balance was horrible. I had decided to cut the barrels (were 8") to the Ejector Housing(s) when I received and offer I couldn't refuse for the guns uncut. Sold 'em on. Have never missed um.
This missive doesn't really add much to the fun and frivolity of the current thread. It is however, Sunday Morning. My Caffeine Low Light is on bright and I'm bored out of my skull. So the above sharing of experience was something to do. So I dood it. Therefore, if you've gotten this far into my narrative, it's too late. You're already here. Nanny Nanny Poo Poo
Avoid People. They be Hazardous to Yer Health
I rather like the long barrel's balance. I have been using the 8" saber River Kirst/Pietta 1860 for a couple years, and really like it. The Uberti Type II is only a tad beefier (about 5%). I am not getting rid of the Saber River, but rather replacing it as one of my my primary main match revolvers. I am thinking of getting a presentation box for it, and just using it on special occasions...
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Nope, sorry! Want the short barrel for my cross draw!
When I mix long and short barrels, I like the long one in the cross draw because I'm high waisted and the longer barrels are harder to draw from strong side. Different strokes.
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Lucked out. My off-side holster is for a 4.75" or shorter revolver. MIDWAY USA had El Paso Saddlery "Territorian" slim jim for A 5.5" on sale for $37!. Ordered it. El Paso's economy line, but very period correct.
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$37 for a holster is really reasonable. I spend more than that in materials to make one.
FWIW, On these open top Colt pistols 8" has a good feel but for CAS a little shorter seems to work good. 5-1/2" should balance really well.
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LOL, I'm like Gus McCrae, and want the long barrel for whacking surly bar tenders, or at least reaching out to be closer to those targets!
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ARGH! Seller cancelled my order because I live in CA and they won't do business with California residents! I'll have to find another one....
I forgot to mention, he deducted a 6% fee from the refund, for "his" trouble of not selling to me.... CHICKEN SH*T!
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DGW lists Uberti 1860 Armies in stock right now (https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8639/category_id/321/product_name/RH0342+Uberti+1860+Army+Revolver). You could call Walt and get another cylinder for it then cut the bbl down to length.
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I had ordered the factory Richards Type II .45 Colt. Don't want to do another Kirst. I already have four.
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Four of them already is a good number. I can see why you would want a factory conversion.
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DO NOT BUY FROM FARNSWORTH FIREARMS ON GUNBROKER!!!!
Most Gunbroker sellers who will not sell to California state right up front in the auction that they won't. Well, this outfit has it buried on Page 2 or 3 of the Gunbroker auction, they do state in small print they won't sell anything to California. OK, I get it.
Problem is, they already charged my credit card on the 29th. I have asked when I might actually get a refund. So far, no answer!
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Call your CC and dispute the charge....
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He got back to me, and said he sent a refund through on Mat 1. It takes 3-5 days, so I will give it a couple more days.
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Found another. Paid $15 more, but they do ship to Commiefornia.
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The 8" Richards Type II transitional came home today! The Fairweather Christian belt I had David Carrico make custom for me with 52 canvas loops, the holster is from Texas Jacks (Cimarron) custom for the Richards, the badge is an original late 1800s, early 1900s Tuolumne Co. Deputy Sheriff badge, the original .44 Colt rounds are from my collection, and the 44. Colt ammo boxes are from the seller on Ebay. My 5-5" Richards should ship tomorrow.
(https://i.imgur.com/OHTI4VV.jpg)
I would love to have a custom original 44 Colt cylinder (for .451" heeled bullet rounds). The .45 Cimarron's bore would be perfect! That would be really authentic! The .45 Schofield loads with 230 grain RN lead bullets are REALLY close to the original .44 Colt rounds. The Schofield is the one in the middle....
(https://i.imgur.com/a5P4F9F.jpg)
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Hey TL, did you pick your alias before or after getting that badge?
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IO actually did pick my alias before I found the badge in an antique shop in Jamestown, CA. I was a Tuolumne County Deputy at the time when I started SASS in 1994.
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Notified that my 5.5" Richards Type II will be delivered to the gunshop tomorrow! Start the 10 day jail and just get it out in time for RailZARoad Flat annual shoot out! Im like Ralphie in "A Christmas Story" waiting for his Red Ryder BB gun!
(https://i.imgur.com/G4EQGF9.jpg)
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My 5.5 Richards Type II. At the gunshop for 10 day jai!
(https://i.imgur.com/fwXC1IC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NZJsNxN.jpg)
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Really nice colors!
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That does look good. Congrats.
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Its even better in real life!n. Cell phone cameras, even on an iPhone 10 have their limitations!
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Yeah, those cell phone cameras can be great but when they're not... ;D
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I checked, and the 8" has a cylinder gap of .006", and the 5 1/2" has a cylinder gap of .005" (.006" is a bit tight). The gap is symmetrical, and is the same at the top and bottom, indicating the barrel is not canted up
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How much gap do you prefer?
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Way back in my LE armorer days, I remember desirable gap on DA revolvers was around .005" to .007", IIRC.
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It sounds like you're right in the desirable range.
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(https://i.imgur.com/FoeXaqE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4zr5I9H.jpg)
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I am REALLY excited! This is my first match with my "Ideal" armory: A pair of 1860 Richards conversions, an 1860 Henry (HRA "New Original Henry). and my Rossi Overland hammered coach gun! This is kind of special because always before I was using "Author guns" 1872s, 1860 R-Ms, 1860 Richards, all in varying flavors. (calibers, barrel length, finish). While I might have them for a year or so, they would either have to be sold or returned so I could get the next batch.
While I did write about my Kirsts, I purpose bought those to be my main match guns, and they were not "Author samples". They were (or should I say are, because I still have them) close to my ideal pair. There was, however, always that niggling "but they are only 5 shot!" floating around in my "always striving for authenticity" head. This pair is PERFECT!
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Lookin' good, pard! It will be good to hear how they perform for you.
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Me at Rail Road Flat this weekend. MY brace of Richards Type II conversions and my HRA "New Original Henry" (their copy of the original 1860 Henry. Out of 120 rounds Pistol and 120 rounds rifle, I missed a couple with rifle, when the steel turned sidewise after my 7th hit, and dropped one round with the pistol, which screwed my chances of a main match pin!
(https://i.imgur.com/YHcNqYi.jpg)
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Your set up looks great! What kind of shotgun did you team up with other guns?
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Yeah, looking mighty good, there. That's a fine outfit. Too bad the target turned sideways. That makes it awfully hard to ring after that. I take it you're pleased with the Richards' performance.
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Thanks, all. My shotgun is a 12 gauge Rossi Overland side-hammer Coach gun with 20" barrels. It's a really sweet shooter! The Prairie Belt was mad by David Carrico with 54 cartridge loops, the 8" Richards is in a Slim Jim from Texas Jacks (Cimarron) made specifically for an 8" Richards. The 5 1/2" is in a El Paso Saddlery "Territorian" slim Jim. The knee flap Cavalry boots are from Fall Creek Suttlery
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54 loops on that prairie belt. Impressive. David does do good work.
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I love the Prairie Belt with the officer's belt plate. It just reeks "cool" when paired up with slim Jim holsters and cartridge conversions! I. have seen similar set ups in McDowell's Colt conversion book and "Packing Iron". I much prefer it to my 3" leather cartridge belt.
The jury is out on the shotgun slide, though. I usually use a canvas shotgun belt, but got the slide for wild bunch matches. The problem is that it sits where the Prairie Belt has triple thickness for adjusting. Might just use the shotgun belt when using the Prairie belt, and the slide with the leather cartridge belt.