Anybody tried those Lee .459 405 gr, hollow-based bullets.

[Tangle Eye]

I'm kicking the idea around about trying some "lighter" bullets for plinking with my buffalo guns. I've been looking at the Lee .459 405 grain hollow based bullet and just wondered if any of you pards had tried such a thing in your single shots?  I know Dick Dastardly is coming out with a 405 grainer too so that might be worth the wait.  Anyhow - let me know what "non-buffalo" bullets you've tried in .45-70 or similar.

[T.J. McSuds]

  I have the moldand used some of the HB bullets in a H&R Buffalo Classic. They seemed to shoot well and held enough lube. I was fireing 6 shots then wiping the bore. I have not tried them yet in my Taylor's Sharps.

[Cuts Crooked]

Howdy Tangle Eye,

DDs 405 grain slug is a reality already! I have one of them and am very happy with it! He is now in the process of designing a 500 grainer, that I hope to own when it becomes finalized!

The problem to overcome is that those huge lube grooves take up major space in a 45-70 case. DD is trying to decide whether to go with two grooves or three. I hope he goes with two, but I plan to own the 500 grain version no matter what!

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[Silver Creek Slim]

Cuts,
I talked to DD on Saturday. He said he was going to go with 3 lube grooves for the 500 grainer. It won't have a flat nose. So, it won't be a lever gun boolit. He said you will be able to seat the boolit out to the first driving band.

Slim

[Delmonico]

I've never played with the HB bullet from Lee. but you can bet if I was to buy an original trapdoor I would have one.  Thats the same bullet always used in the carbine loads and the infantry load till 1881.  It would be very forgivin' in older guns with slightly oversize bores.  For a modern gun with "proper" dimenions I doubt I would even consider the somewhat extra hassle of the hollow based mould.  JMO.

[Cuts Crooked]

Cuts,
I talked to DD on Saturday. He said he was going to go with 3 lube grooves for the 500 grainer. It won't have a flat nose. So, it won't be a lever gun boolit. He said you will be able to seat the boolit out to the first driving band.

Slim

Hmmm? Well it's HIS design! And who am I to try to figger these things out? My biggest concern was with the case capacity. The 405 grain version takes up a lot of room in that case already and I cannot take advantage of the long chamber on my Roller because of it. I would hate to to have to give up even more powder capacity!

Yeah, I knowed it wuz gonna be a spire point slug, with a bore riding nose to allow it to be seated out into the rifling. I figgered this wuz a good idear but increasing the number of lube grooves would offset that aspect. The current two lube design is capable of keeping fouling soft all the way to the muzzle of my 34" bore! No other commercially available slug out there will do that!

[Silver Creek Slim]

Cuts,
I talked to DD on Saturday. He said he was going to go with 3 lube grooves for the 500 grainer. It won't have a flat nose. So, it won't be a lever gun boolit. He said you will be able to seat the boolit out to the first driving band.

Slim

Hmmm? Well it's HIS design! And who am I to try to figger these things out? My biggest concern was with the case capacity. The 405 grain version takes up a lot of room in that case already and I cannot take advantage of the long chamber on my Roller because of it. I would hate to to have to give up even more powder capacity!

Yeah, I knowed it wuz gonna be a spire point slug, with a bore riding nose to allow it to be seated out into the rifling. I figgered this wuz a good idear but increasing the number of lube grooves would offset that aspect. The current two lube design is capable of keeping fouling soft all the way to the muzzle of my 34" bore! No other commercially available slug out there will do that!

Maybe you can convince DD to make it with only 2 grooves.

Slim

[Tangle Eye]

Delmonico - that's a good point about the extra trouble associated with casting hollow base boolits.  But - now as I look at that Lee page again I'm a bit confused.  Looks like most of the boolits are .457.  Now I havn't slugged the bores in my long rifles but I usually size the Lyman Postell I cast at .458 and it does real well.  .457 seems kinda small to me. Lee's 500 grainer is .459 as is the hollow based 405 grain but everything else is .457.  Wonder why that is?

[Drydock]

The 405 lee bullet was designed to milspec patterns provided by Pat Wolf, specificly for the Trapdoor Springfield, though it works great in other weapons as well.  The new 500 is based on the body of the 405, with a longer nose and no HB, thus the same diameter.  Both are primarly meant for BP Cartridge applications, as opposed to the rest of the Lee .457 bullets.

[Delmonico]

I've got that 385 (I think) gr flatnose mould by Lee that someone gave me.  I'll go check my notes in the morning, but I think it drops 0.458 out of WW.  I've cast some for friends for Nitro loads, but never tried it for BP cause it don't have very big grease grooves and with a 457122 (drops 0.4585 with 24-1) and a RCBS-500-BPS mould, I never seen what it would do for me in the Sharps that either would not handle.

[Bad Flynch]

TE--The comments about Pat Wolfe are valid. In fact, if you are going to shoot 405 grain bullets with black powder, the hollow-based design is probably the only way to go. Lee's current mould is based on the military bullet that the Frankford Arsenal (the real Frankford Arsenal) spent so much time developing. The story is is Pat Wolfe's book and is a good read.

Nevermind the stuff about modern cases and case capacity, it is a side issue compared to getting the right bullet and getting it started off right.