Will black powder wearout my shootin irons?

[John Barleycorn]

I've been told that black powder is very corrosive.  I shot a match with it last season and loved the loud report and all the smoke, but I am concerned that it could wear out my guns prematurly.  Is it just a matter of cleaning them the same evening or is it wearing my guns out faster that smokeless powder?  Any advice?  Thanks Pards.

[RattlesnakeJack]

JB:

Aside from the corrosion potential (which proper cleaning will certainly avoid) I am of the view that the lower pressures and temperatures genrated by black powder loads will be a lot easier on your firearms than smokeless loads ...

[Pettifogger]

BP is easier to clean than smokeless (if you used the proper bullets and lube) and develops less pressure.  So, BP loaded rounds should be easier on your guns than smokeless.  With modern steel, you won't live long enough to wear out a quality gun with BP.  I frequently do not have time to  clean my BP guns the same day I shoot them and have never had any corrosion problems.

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[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Black powder is less detrimental to barrels, forcing cones and throats.  Smokeless has long been shown to erode these due to the high gas temperatures and gas velocity.  An extreme example would be "flame cutting" on a 357 or 44 magnum topstrap.  With Cowboy loads smokeless powder's affect isn't much.  Black is pretty benign.

[litl rooster]

  JB   Welcome to the Darkside

[Howdy Doody]

I don't use Pyrodex any more, but everything else looks to be just fine with my shooters.

[Frank Dalton]

I know that my 12 ga took more time cleaning up after smokeless vs. real black powder (goex 2f), and now I'm using Shockley's gold and the barrels clean up with plain water.

I like your alias, but as you know, John Barleycorn must die.  (at least that's the title of the song)

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Frank,
Is the Gold consistent in your shotgun?  I used it in my muzzleloader for the first dear season.  Made small groups and easy reloads.  Thought "hey, this is great" and tried it in 45-70.  A big no go.  It might be my loading technique or I didn't try hard enough.  But it does clean up so easy and no extra lube.

[Frank Dalton]

Frank,
Is the Gold consistent in your shotgun? 

So far so good. I am using brass shells and I'm hitting everything. I'm using a MEC Sizemaster to load everything except the powder (which I pour in by hand) and I'm guessing that using the loader press when putting in the wads (circle fly) helps put enough compression on the powder to make it work right.

I'm told that when loading smaller calibers (less than shotgun size) powder needs to be loaded using a drop tube, which helps greatly with consistancy, as it seems to pack more densely. I've yet to load the gold in any anything els but will be trying soon in 44-40. I'l  be hand loading those with a Lyman 310 tool and will see how it works out.

[Major 2]

Will black powder wearout my shootin irons? absolutely

I have a original 1860 Army I'm still wearing out & a 2nd Gen Colt 1860 I've been wear'n' out for almost 30 years. 
They've had a steady diet of BP....

I heard Pyrodex is more corrosive than BP ( don't know if that includes 777 ,never used the stuff....)
I bought some of the pellets, to try thought ,I was not impressed , still have the full can less about 12 ....

I did try Clear Shot & still have Shot shell loaded with it ... It's called APP now, Works well in my SXS.....

[Be-A-triss Bandit]

Thanks Frank!

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Let's get a couple of things straight. Black Powder is not corrosive. However Black Powder fouling is hygroscopic. What that means is that BP fouling is dry as a bone and will attract moisture out of the air like a dry sponge. If allowed to sit long enough, BP fouling on steel will wick enough moisture out of the air to cause the steel to oxidize. HOWEVER, with modern non-corrosive primers this is no where near the problem it used to be. I almost never clean my BP guns the same day I fire them. I try to get to them within a week. Sometimes I don't get around to it for a little while longer. My Colts have sat filthy dirty in my safe for as long as 3 weeks before I got a chance to clean them. I won't even mention how long my shotgun sat once. And this is being put away dirty, no spray of Ballistol, nothing. Bone dry dirty.

Not that I recommend you go for 3 weeks with your guns, but as I say, I almost never clean my guns the same day that I shoot them, and they do not turn into piles of rust.

As far as pressure, BP develops far less pressure, and the pressure spike is much milder with BP than with any Smokeless powder you can name. Many old guns, built before modern steels were available, are completely safe to shoot with BP. As a matter of fact, Colt did not get around to factory guaranteeing the SAA for Smokeless until 1900, and it is recommended that any SAA from before that date ONLY be shot with BP, becuase of the lower pressure.

[TAkaho kid]

Howdy

Let's get a couple of things straight. Black Powder is not corrosive. However Black Powder fouling is hygroscopic. What that means is that BP fouling is dry as a bone and will attract moisture out of the air like a dry sponge. If allowed to sit long enough, BP fouling on steel will wick enough moisture out of the air to cause the steel to oxidize. HOWEVER

Driftwood is correct to a point. Its the potassium carbonate (potash) in the fouling that is hygroscopic. However, it will not absorb moisture until 30% relative humidity is reached. Until that point it remains dry. At 80% its more like a liquid. This is why a pard in the high desert of Arizona can getaway without cleaning for weeks while us pards here in the east cannot.

One other point to go along with this. If no moisture is present (less then 30% humidity) then no corrosion cells can attack the metal. However, there is a very, very narrow threshold where the potassium carbonate just starts to get damp. It is at this finite point where it can form little spots on the metal that become galvanic corrosion cells. As humidity level rises it rapidly becomes too wet to form individual corrosion cells on the surface and is therefore harmless. However, leave dampness trapped against bare steel long enough and you will have corrosion.

Incidently its the potassium carbonates love of water which makes good old hot H₂O one of the best cleaning solutions.

Remeber we are talking real black powder not the subs. Some subs are highly corrosive others are not.

As for barrel wear,

The Brits wasted a lot of fine 303 barrels before learning how harsh nitro powders and erosion can be.

[Dick Dastardly]

With the One True Powder, it's not a question of wear, but of corrosion.  Most of the corrosion can be traced back to corrosive primers.  Modern primers, like we use, won't cause corrosion.  So, the black powder residue has to get wet before corrosion can get a grip.  Keep your guns dry and clean them well and you won't live long enough to wear one out from shooting Holy Black.  I can't speak for the subs/replicas.

DD-DLoS

[Driftwood Johnson]

Driftwood is correct to a point. Its the potassium carbonate (potash) in the fouling that is hygroscopic. However, it will not absorb moisture until 30% relative humidity is reached. Until that point it remains dry. At 80% its more like a liquid. This is why a pard in the high desert of Arizona can getaway without cleaning for weeks while us pards here in the east cannot.

I dunno much about the science of it, but my empirical tests have shown that living in New England, where it gets plenty hot and humid in the summer, my guns can sit for 2 or even 3 weeks and not exhibit any rust. Of course, after I clean them I douse them liberally with Ballistol. This may or may not 'season' the steel, depending on whether or not you believe in seasoning. If the steel is 'seasoned', it may have a preventative effect against oxidation. But I dunno if 'seasoning' really exits or not.

[TAkaho kid]

Same here Driftwood,

I have gone many days without a problem. Can't say I had the same experience with Pyrodex. (May my old muzzle loader rest in peace)

DD,

In the early days of nitro powder, many, many fine firearms were lost to those old mecuric primers. If they had used the old BP method of using nice (cheap) hotwater the bad stuff would have been washed away and those fine firearms would be with us today.

[sundance44`s]

Thats true even with the old front stuffer were as the caps were more corrosive than Black Powder used ..many a old relic  had the drum and nipple rusted off by these type caps .

[Cyrille]

I have been shooting BP off and on since the 1970s most recently in my OM SS Vaquero I found it very easy to clean.
No problem with corrosion in my front stuffers at all.
 However I do clean them asap as it is very humid here in S. La. most of the year.
A good bath w/hot water and soap does wonders for the shootin iron as well as the human body just make sure you dry it troughly and in between yer toes as well. Good huntin!

[Ransom Gaer]

Haven't had any problems with wearing out my BP guns from the use of BP.  Don't expect to either.  Also I found that BP fouling used properly does a very good job of antiquing a '66 Winchester rifle.  Works on 1860 Henrys too.  My '66 has developed a very nice patina on the receiver and all the other "brass" parts.   I really like the way it looks.  In all seriousness the receiver has gotten this way from repeated cleanings after matches with no effort whatsoever to try to preserve the shiny brass look.  And as I said on another thread "Better to sneak up on the bad guys with."  HEE HEE.

Ransom Gear

[Steel Horse Bailey]

For some strange reason    I seem to be agreeing with the majority.  

No, if you clean CORRECTLY (note I didn't say immediately - but sooner is usually better) {and it's hard to clean INcorrectly,} the corrosion possible won't hurt your guns.

And NO - BP developes MUCH less pressures (approximately 1/4 to 1/3, roughly .. in most instances) and won't wear out ANYTHING in your lifetime ... or probably several lifetimes.


As to subs, I have no experience.  I have shot Pyrodex numerous times in my 32 years of BP shooting, and I DON'T consider it too be a "sub", since I BELIEVE  that I read an article by Hodgdon, the maker of Pyro, that said that Pyro is essentially BP with less Sulphur.  I don't think it's made from sugar like some of the subs, either.  [My terms "less Sulphur" and "sugar" are Very, Very general and don't reflect the additional additives or chemicals removed from whatever powder each manufacturer produces.]

Keep yer powder dry!!