Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => Topic started by: Leo Tanner on December 14, 2008, 11:30:19 PM
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I'd like ta hear some various opinions on this subject. I could ask several questions but will start with a simple one.
Do you think grease at the end of the chamber is enough to prevent chain fires and have good performance, or do you believe wads are essential? If you like wads, which do you prefer? I've also heard of some using a thin layer of innert filler between the charge and the bullet, but it seems this would cheat you on BANG and smoke.
I'd love ta hear anything any C&B shooter has ta say about this.
Leo
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The primary purpose of grease is to keep BP fouling soft. Properly fitting balls and caps are the keys to preventing chainfires. The last few years, during most matches I use APP because it eliminates the necessity for grease and speeds up the loading process. Been shooting C&B since 1962 and have never had a chainfire with real BP or the subs. Chainfires happen, but its almost always because of sloppy loading technique.
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ditto
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+2
I have only had 1 chain fire & that was 30+ yrs ago. Right when I 1st got into C&B shooting.
It was an 1860 & the only caps I could find were very loose. I believe that one of them fell of in shooting resulting in the chain fire.
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I am one of the unfortunate in that I have had 4 chain fires. All originated at the face of the cylinder because in every case the cap on the chain fired chamber was intact and fired when the gun was cleared. After much research on what was going on I determined, and was apparently right because I have had no more, that the culprit was using too hard of an alloy to cast the balls. With a hard alloy the ball does not swage properly and any casting void or presence of a sprue can leave an open channel for the fire from a previous shot to enter. I had added some linotype to my alloy to allow for a better mold fill out. Don't do it any more.
I use a homemade felt wad impregnated with a mixture of wax and mutton tallow over the powder. I gives some lube to the the barrel but I think more important allows me to insure I have good compression in each chamber. I use only Holy Black in my percussion pistols, 30 grs FFFg by volume.
Are the wads necessary? I don't know but adds very little to the cost and I feel better.
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Do you think grease at the end of the chamber is enough to prevent chain fires and have good performance, or do you believe wads are essential?
Howdy
No to grease alone preventing chain fires. I can tell you from experience. I bought my first C&B revolver in 1968. In those days wonder wads and such had not been invented yet. The conventional wisdom in those days was to slather Crisco over the ends of the chambers to prevent chainfires. This is next to useless. What happens when you try this is the flame and hot gasses escaping from the barrel/cylinder gap melt the Crisco in the chamber that is next to the gap; the next chamber to be fired. Most of the melted Crisco runs out of the chamber, leaving only a thin oily coating on the ball and the chamber mouth. Not much to lube the bore. Everybody always talks about how chainfires happen from loose fitting caps, but if you happen to have a less than perfect ball, one that has a deep dent or a nick in the surface, and the dent or nick is not completely shaved away when the ball is seated, then you have a void between the chamber wall and the ball. This leaves a perfect path for an errant spark to find its way past the ball and into the powder charge. And a thin oily layer of melted Crisco is not going to be enough to stop that spark. On the other hand, if you have the same situation with a felt wad between the ball and the powder, 1/8" or so of felt makes a much better spark arrestor than a thin oily layer of melted grease.
Anyway, whether it was a loose fitting cap, or a poor ball to chamber seal, I had a humdinger of a chainfire with my ole C&B when I was a kid. So the Crisco over the balls was clearly not enough to stop a chainfire. Years later when I found out about Wonder Wads I decided to never again put grease over the ball of a C&B. Wads between the powder and ball everytime for this old cowboy.
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+ 3 to Pettifogger's comments.
But, I will tell you I use homemade wads similar to what Noz described. Their sole purpose is to keep the fouling soft. Grease over the balls is a measy proposition during a Texas summer, I sort of like my holsters the color they are now. Cleanliness during reloading and tight fitting balls take care of the front of the cylinder.
~Mako
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Thanks for the answers. You all seem to have a lot of experience with these guns and I am just now gaining a serious interest. It's good to hear solid agreement from several shooters rather than reading 10 completely opposing opinions. It realy does help :)
So another question, do you fully load each chamber one at a time (excluding the cap of course) or go through all of them powder first then lead? I've seen it done both ways and heard saftey argumments for both.
Leo
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I sometimes use a thin card wad, that I have soaked beforehand (in your lube of choice), between the ball & powder. It works superbly. I use the Circle Fly 0.025” Overshot Card in 0.450 diameter in a .44 cap 'n ball. Just make sure that you use a stiff lube when the weather is warm so as not to contaminate the BP.
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I am fairly new to shooting C&B revolvers. Just started this summer. I have yet(knock on wood) had a chain fire. After doing some extensive reading on the subject. I have tried the lube over the balls and all I have found is that it makes a major mess in the summer. I attribute my not having a chain fire(again knocking on wood) to tight fitting balls. The wad between the powder and ball is something I am going to look into using. Sounds like sound practice and good insurance.
Bristow Kid
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So another question, do you fully load each chamber one at a time (excluding the cap of course) or go through all of them powder first then lead? I've seen it done both ways and heard saftey argumments for both.
In my experience It depends on whether you load using the rammer on the pistol or using a cylinder loader. It also makes a difference whether or not you use a wad, card or something else between the powder and ball.
3 Options
Number 1 (On the Pistol)
If you load on the pistol and don't use a wad or card it would be safer and make more sense to place and seat a ball after each charge is thrown. Otherwise you may lose powder from other chambers as you manipulate the pistol. If I load on the pistol I place a wad over each powder charge and seat it with a dowel before moving to the next chamber. Before seating the balls I reinspect the five loaded chambers and then seat the balls.
I am a bit anal about my loading procedure which is probably why my pistols work and I have never had a chain fire (knock on wood...) If I loaded on the pistol I actually remove the cylinder at this time and clean the cut lead ring and any powder or residue that might remain. Then I reassemble and move to the second pistol.
Number 2 (Charge dismounted cylinder and use rammer on Pistol)
Remove the cylinder from the pistol. After cleaning load all 5 chambers with powder then add a wad to each. Remount cylinder, seat balls then remove cylinder again to clean lead ring, grease center pin and reinstall.
Number 3 (Load cylinder on a separate cylinder loader)
Remove the cylinder from the pistol. After cleaning load all 5 chambers with powder then add a wad to each. Using the cylinder loader seat five balls. Clean lead rings, reinspect, grease center pin and reassemble pistol.
#3 is my preferred method, it is faster than #2 and provides the maximum safety in loading if you have people interrupting you while loading. You can inspect and verify the condition of each chamber at each stage. You could literally walk away from the operation and return 10 minutes later and quickly determine where you are in the process. You may think my procedure is a bit much, but it is actually rather fast and my pistols are cleaned every stage. If you ask those I shoot with you will find I have trouble free stages, I credit the cleanliness and inspection for this record. While charging my pistols I man the loading table and serve as the Safety Officer for the table. I can stop at any point to carry out my duties at this station while serving in this important function of the posse.
One more tip. I start out as a target spotter, and perform this function until almost half of the posse has shot. Then I load up and cap up, shoot my stage and then finish at the unloading table. I rarely just stand around and watch. If you perform those functions on your posse and charge up as described you will never have anyone waiting on you and you will always be considered a valuable member of a posse.
Have fun, C&B is the best way to do it.
~Mako
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Thanks again. This is why I come here rather than just surf the web for articles.
I'm really looking forward to doing a lot of C&B shooting, and every bit of extra confidence helps.
Leo
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I use homemade wads at a match most of the time, but also have a tube of bore butter in my box. I like the wads, as I can get a little more compression, and I use the bore butter when I am running short on the wads.
The only chainfire I had was with my Starr, and I believe it was due to the ball sprue getting to the side of the chamber, as opposed to straight up or down. This left a gap, and allowed the spark to light it off. The cap was fired, but was stuck tight to the nipple. I had to pry it off. In my case, I was in a hurry, and didnt use any lube or wad, and just rammed a ball willy nilly.
It pays to do all the steps.
As for loading, I charge on the pistol, as they were designed, charging it with powder, then a wad. I do all 5 this way, then add the ball. If I am just using borebutter, I charge with powder, then add the ball. Charging all 5 at once, I tend to shake half the powder out, and also lose count of where I am in the loading process.
DM
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I've had one chain fire, and that definatly was from the cap. I'd converted a 51 to 38 colt, cut down the cylinder and drilled and mounted a breach plate to the frame. Well, I decided to go back to cap and ball and bought a new cylinder and removed the solid breach plate, negleting to fill the hole at the 6 O'clock position. First time out flame followed the hammer around and set the chamber off rite under the loading leaver. Filled the hole and never had a nouther problem.
The bigest thing for my thinking is to chamfer the cylinder mouths, use oversize lead balls, or as I'm doing now conicle bullets, and good fitting caps on Tresso nipples. The chamfering the chamber mouths probably does the most good along with an over sized soft lead ball. .375 is too blasted small for even a Pietta, much less a uberti. I would prefere to shoot .385 in my Uberti's, though my Pietta 36's love the .380's. A minimum for 44's is .454, if the chamber mouth is somewhat oversized or the ball doesn't shave or upset a large ring then you realy need to go to a larger ball.
Funny thing is that I've almost completely switched to conicle bullets cast from a lee mould, surprisingly I get better offhand accuracy from them than I did from round balls. There pan lubed so that helps too.
I have used wads before, and every once in a while will run some through as a way to knock some of the fouling out of the bore during long strings. I generaly shoot 2-300 rounds before cleaning. I know it'd be better to take the barrel off and run a wet patch or two through but I've got the wads, just shooting them up. I normaly put a swipe of crisco over the balls, not the lubed conicles, not a lot, just something to help lube the ball and keep the fouling soft.
Your milage may very.
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I do a little bit of what just about everybody has mentioned except take the cylinders out for charging. That would get my hands all too messy and take extra time. Everything is done on the gun at the unloading table where I clear shooters coming off the firing line. I powder 5 chambers from a flask (20, 23, or 30grs FFFg), wad 5, seat 5 .454 home cast balls, and grease 5 chambers while holding the gun upright. I use a 50/50 beeswax/olive oil soaked 1/8"-3/16" thick wool felt wad I cut out from automotive felt scraps using a 7/16" hole punch in a drill press. I also put a bead of cheap rotgut automotive grease around each ball with a curved tip irrigation syringe. In real cold weather I use GOOP soapless hand cleaner over the balls but mostly auto grease 'cause it stays the same consistency whether it is freezing or blistering hot out. Beeswax based lubes get too firm in cold weather and melt in hot weather. The auto grease is not "organic" but works for me. The reason I do overkill on lube wads and over ball grease is to keep the fouling soft so the guns run smooth for the whole match. The spatter onto the cylinder face and pin keeps things turning. Depending on the Remington I may even put a single drop of oil from a small squeeze bottle onto the front of the cylinder where it contacts the frame and jiggle it down onto the cylinder pin to keep it freewheeling. I use a wooden push stick to do the final seating of caps.
Like Driftwood Johnson I started out in 1968 (or 9) but thankfully have never had a chainfire. I am anal about my loading as are most experienced C&B shooters otherwise you get missfires, chainfires, and dryballs (no powder in the chamber, not a venereal disease!). After a while you work up a rhythm and could load in pitch black as I have had to do during night shoots. To mark my open chamber I use 3 drops of white fingernail polish: a big drop 1/4" from the chamber and one small drop on either side of the nipple cutout to better show the loading table RO which nipple goes uncapped and under the hammer. Marking the open chamber avoids misloadings and aids the fellow checking for "hammer down on an empty chamber". That's how I do it. As you can see, opinions vary so try different ways and see what works for you.
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+ 3 to Pettifogger's comments.
But, I will tell you I use homemade wads similar to what Noz described. Their sole purpose is to keep the fouling soft. Grease over the balls is a measy proposition during a Texas summer, I sort of like my holsters the color they are now. Cleanliness during reloading and tight fitting balls take care of the front of the cylinder.
~Mako
+4 to Pettifogger's comments. & +1 to Noz's and Mako's. I also use lubed wads to keep the fouling soft. Grease over the the balls is a messy proposition whether in a hot Texas summer or a middlin midwest spring. I load while the pistol is still assembled, on a stand built to the side of my gun cart. I believe in the KISS principle. Don't need a lot of extraneous stuff to carry and keep track of.
FM
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Loading sequence: I have a cheap Cabela's stand to hold the revolver upright while loading. I do not have an"open chamber" marked so that I don't load it. I put the hammer on half cock and the first chamber available is where I start loading. I pour powder directly from the measuring spout of my flask into a chamber and add a wad. This gives me a marked starting point and prevents water or wind bothering the powder. When I have 5 chambers loaded with powder and wad I load each with a 454 ball. Loading the balls all at the same time gives me an opportunity to be as consistant as possible in my loading pressure.
As they say: Your mileage may vary.
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I have only one chain fire, 2 chambers at once, it was a cap related issue. I load using the rammer, holding the pistol upright. I load powder and wad all the way around, then run the rammer down to seat the wad on the powder. Then I place a ball and seat each individually. (only 5 usually unless I am shooting right away) I cap at the line with various cappers, snail, straight, and a leather circle cut to hold 7 or 8 caps. Each pistol has its preference to the capper it likes. I ususally use bore butter on the cylinder pin. I have shot my Pietta Colt army with 250 consecutive shots and had no fouling problem or cylinder drag.
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The charm of Big Lube™ C&B designed bullets is that they are lube/sized for a nice snug interference fit with the chambers and have a short rebate on the base to assure square insertion. Properly lube/sized, the EPP-UG and DD/ROA designs effectively eliminate any chance of chain fire from the cylinder face. There is absolutely no need for any lube cookies, wads or over bullet smears. The lube is all captured in the huge lube grove.
These are bullets that work very well in BOTH C&B and cartridge conversion cylinders. One bullet, many missions. Terrific accuracy, no foul out and easy gun cleaning. Life is good.
DD-DLoS
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DD are you still recommending that the ug be loaded upside down for the armys?
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The new batch of EPP-UG bullet molds drop bullets with a smaller rebate than the first batch. So for my ROAs, I don't have to load either them or the DD/ROA bullets backwards. They load very easily frontwards just as they were intended.
Some 44 Cal front stuffers have chambers smaller than .450 at the mouths. Next time I order a batch of EPP-UG or DD/ROA molds I'm going to specify a .447" rebate. The ROAs won't benefit from this, but a lot of undersize chambered 58s will.
FWIW, my brace of open top 60s load both Big Lube™ C&B designs easily with no problems.
DD-DLoS
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Sorry to tack onto this thread, but this is the first time I've seen mention of lubed boolits for the C&B guns. I'm brand new to C&B.
I recently bought a used Navy Arms imported Uberti 1851 Army (I think) - It's a .44 caliber with a brass frame and non-engraved cylinder. The profile matches the 1851 navy exactly. Based on the proof stamps, it was manufactured in 1972.
How do I determine which diameter bullet to order? I'd like to try some of these.
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Been shooting C&B exclusive for 10yrs. I use a dental irrigation syringe filled with my lube mix to put lube over the ball after loading. Keeps the fouling soft and sparks can't get past it. Can send the link to where you can get them via email. 8)
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I put powder in all, then wad in all then ball in all.
I just leave one cone {nipple} out so it is real easy to see the empty cylinder for me and saftey officers. I just carry the spare nipples in a old cap tin so if there is a stage with a reload I put them in and go.
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Best bet is to mike your chambers, you'll probably need .454 round balls, the bigger the better that you can ram home. The more lead shaved off(with-in reason) the better the seal, the more rifling contact.
I haven't tried DD's cap and ball conicles, but have had great luck with the other big lube offerings. I cast my conicles from Lee moulds and they work great. I've had to open the loading port a hair on a couple, nothing a little time with a file or dremal and a Q-tip of cold blue doesn't fix. I pan lube them with a mix of tallow, bee's wax and parrifin. I love them, the base is a couple thou smaller than the lube groves and the base slides rite in and makes seating square pretty easy.
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I'm a bit ol' fashion, I reckon. I use the rammer that came on the revolver ::)
My 1860s and NM 1863 get 25 gr FFF and a SOFT, .454 Round ball (thats at least 2 thousandths over sized for the chamber).
My Dragoon gets 40 gr of FF and the same .454 ball.
best practice is to charge a chamber with powder, then ram a ball home. repeat.
A tight-fitting (soft lead, oversize) ball is all that is needed to completely seal the chamber.
I add a over-ball lube to keep the bore-fouling soft.
Cleanup with soap/water followed with a water-displacing lube (I use WD-40).
Been doing it this way since I was a boy.
Proper fitting caps, and your GTG.
Regards,
Slim
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Again, this has been great!
Lots of techniques to try and see what works for me. It ain't Christmas yet, so I don't have the gun in my hands, but when I do I won't be going in blind.
One more question just for historical sake...does anyone know how this was commonly done in the field when these revolvers were actualy used in the service? If the Army was anything back then like it is now, weapons handling is drilled with specific proceedure. Not that there aren't better ways to do it now, but I'm curious.
Thanks again to all.
Leo
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Paper cartridges were common back in the day. Some of the others will have a nice link to how to make them I am sure. My link is gone. DM
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What Dalton said...
usually the cylinders were loaded in camp or barracks. In battle cylinders were changed out, if there was time. A lot of your Confederate Cavalry carried mutiple revolvers.
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What Dalton said...
usually the cylinders were loaded in camp or barracks. In battle cylinders were changed out, if there was time. A lot of your Confederate Cavalry carried mutiple revolvers.
I've never seen a primary historical document evidencing that any soldier switched cylinders in battle. These guns were issued with ONE cylinder per Army regs. Regular soldiers were not issued revolvers, only cavalry & officers mainly. Guerillas did what is termed today a "New York" reload, i.e., grabbed another loaded revolver as it's impossible to switch cylinders on a moving horse with Colt style revolvers.
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I imagine there was a lot of weapon scavanging going on at such close quarters.
Leo
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I'm with Fox Creek Kid: I've never come across any references to swapping out loaded cylinders to reload C&B revolvers during warfare or shootouts. I'm now wishing that scene from Pale Rider where Eastwood swaps out a Remington cylinder during the final shootout never was filmed. If you needed more shooting you brought along another fully loaded revolver or pulled out a big knife that many carried. One of the reasons we spend so much time on these forums discussing how we cope with fouling is because the guns were never designed to be shot more than six times. They were shot dry and then put away. When they were designed people were so happy to get SIX shots in a row that a fast reload was never a consideration of the inventer. Remember the predecessor to the six shooter was a single shot patched round ball gun. Once they got a six shooter it was figured that things would be settled by the time the gun was empty. There may be the occasional presentation case with a spare cylinder but it was unlikely intended to substitute for a second gun.
Think of it. If bullets are whizzing around you and whoever is trying to kill you is clearly near, you want another loaded gun to pull not a cylinder you have to knock the gun apart to install while he's drawing down on you. Just pull another gun and blam the guy, end of fight (or RUN LIKE HELL!).
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While not a historical drama, fairly accurate though watch Gettysburg.
It is not during battle per say, but between Confederate charges the union officer swaps out cylinders on a Colt revolver.
There were issue cylinder holders and I believe the Pattersons originally came with two cylinders with the intent of being able to change cylinders during a lull in action as reloading a cylinder was not feasible, time wise.
I would say it was more expedient to carry multiple guns. or RUN!!!
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...Remember the predecessor to the six shooter was a single shot patched round ball gun...
Going to a six shooter from a caplock single shot for 19th century people must have been like us going from rabbit ears to a satellite dish!! ;D ;)
Jeb, no offense but Hollywood movies are just that, movies and hardly a primary historical source. "Ride With the Devil" showed cylinder changes as well, but just like Bruce Willis 20 mag change shootouts & zombies, it's Hollywood.
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In most cases the revolver was considered a "back up" to the sabre. In use, you dumped 6 shots into the oncoming enemy and dropped the gun and drew the sabre.
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I was given a 58 in 71 by the owner of the gun store that I worked at. He gave me everything needed to load and fire the gun.I was so excited to go out that first Sunday and shoot the gun. Well after just two cylinders of firing, I looked at him and said "Now I know why the cowboys in the old movies that I watched growing up would always throw the gun at the other one when it was empty".
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That's why I plan on always bringing the cartrige guns too on a trip the range. I can save the 51 as a grand finnaly. :D I'll probably get more serious about reloading Holy Black cartiges too so there'll be lots of smoke for the afternoon. My loading bench should be complete by the first of the year.
Leo
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OK, nother question cause now I'm gettin nitpicky (I have the gun now).
Sprue facing the powder or the muzzel? Read about it being done both ways an some don't seem ta care as long as it's not contacting the chamber wall. Proponents for facing it toward the powder say the bullet will fly truer, those who say to have it face the barrel don't give a reason. I'm guessing it's so they can ensure it did not turn sideways.
Hornaday balls don't have a sprue, but I am wanting to cast at home so I will have to deal with this sooner or later.
Hope you all had a great holiday! Thanks in advance,
Leo
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Whenever accuracy tests on deformed bullets are done the results show that deformations of the BASE of the bullet more readily affect accuracy than deformations of the tip of the bullet. The test I have seen involved jacketed bullets with filing or gouging being done to one end or the other of the bullet. If I have the time I try to put the sprue UP but I doubt there is any measureable difference at our ranges with the ROUND BALL plus, I use a lube wad under the ball so there is likely no affect of the muzzle blast on the ball as it exits the barrel as would occur with a naked ball. Because of the wads I just drop the ball in any old which way and ram 'em. If I miss at 7 yards it my own fault for not aiming.
It would be nice to get a comment from a skirmisher that shoots C&B in the accuracy matches. Now, there'd be a valid opinion as to whether the ball placement has much of an effect. My guess is for the real matches they use swaged balls and for practice their own cast ones but I have never attended a N/SSA shoot so I'd like to know what the accuracy boys do o wring out every last bit of accuracy besides the gunsmithing/accurizing.
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Whenever accuracy tests on deformed bullets are done the results show that deformations of the BASE of the bullet more readily affect accuracy than deformations of the tip of the bullet. The test I have seen involved jacketed bullets with filing or gouging being done to one end or the other of the bullet. If I have the time I try to put the sprue UP but I doubt there is any measureable difference at our ranges with the ROUND BALL plus, I use a lube wad under the ball so there is likely no affect of the muzzle blast on the ball as it exits the barrel as would occur with a naked ball. Because of the wads I just drop the ball in any old which way and ram 'em. If I miss at 7 yards it my own fault for not aiming.
It would be nice to get a comment from a skirmisher that shoots C&B in the accuracy matches. Now, there'd be a valid opinion as to whether the ball placement has much of an effect. My guess is for the real matches they use swaged balls and for practice their own cast ones but I have never attended a N/SSA shoot so I'd like to know what the accuracy boys do o wring out every last bit of accuracy besides the gunsmithing/accurizing.
+1
I don't pay that much attention to where the sprue nub is. Some of the balls I use just have a slight flat spot anyhow.
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee
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I was always taught sprue up, but have read somewhere, and it makes sense, to go sprue down. That way you have a more uniform and ballistically efficient projectile, for a round ball anyway.
Either way, up or down is better than sideways. I am convinced that is why I had the chainfire.
DM
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I was always taught to load muzzle-loading rifles with the sprue facing up. I have followed the same proceedure with my C&B revolvers.
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Whenever accuracy tests on deformed bullets are done the results show that deformations of the BASE of the bullet more readily affect accuracy than deformations of the tip of the bullet. The test I have seen involved jacketed bullets with filing or gouging being done to one end or the other of the bullet
Hellgate,
While this is true with flat or beveled base bullets, the "base" of a ball isn't anywhere near the interface of the rifling to the ball or the gas halo of the pressure wave as the ball exits the barrel.
I believe we will have to defer to the round ball rifle shooters to shed any light for us. But since most shoot patched balls it still isn’t a perfect analog for a C&B pistol. They would notice any degradation in accuracy long before we would.
I like you use a lubricated wad so I am not picky when I use cast balls. If there is anyone out there who can tell a difference at CAS ranges with the size targets we have then he, or she is a better Pistolero(a) than I.
Regards,
Mako
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Just though I'd drop back in here ta say I've fired the gun several times since receiving it on Christmas and found tecniques that work well fer me. Thank you for all the input. It was very helpful and I've had a great time at the range with it. C&B shooting is a whole new world and my Vaquero is now jelous of all the time I give to the 51 ::)
Been shooting C&B exclusive for 10yrs. I use a dental irrigation syringe filled with my lube mix to put lube over the ball after loading. Keeps the fouling soft and sparks can't get past it. Can send the link to where you can get them via email. 8)
CC, a relative was visiting the other night and was talking about some recent dental work. She mentioned off hand that the dentist had given her some of those syringes. I mentioned I might have a use for one and she brought it to me the next day. I tried it out, and I'll tell you what, after snipping a bit off the tip to get the right flow I found it to be an invaluable addition to my gun bag. Great tip! It'd be neat to find an old style metal one to be more PC, but in the mean time, the one she gave me works great--a whole afternoon of shooting an not so much as a smidge of lube on my hands. It's faster too ;)
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Back in the late 70's and early 80's I used to shoot a 58' Remington and a 60' army quite a bit. Used to shoot Highpower in May and June and close down during July and August so everyone could go to Perry for the Nationals. During these two months I would fool with my C&B revolvers. Back then the only way was with round balls and Crisco over the front of the cylinder for a real messy afternoon of shooting. In a Lyman manuel of the time there was data for a hollow-based conical bullet called 450229. I bought one of these moulds and started producing bullets. Out of pure lead these bullets weighed about 166 grs. I made a sizer for them that would size the bottom band and leave the two top bands unsized. There wasn't anySPG back then,so I used Alox. I used the 30 gr. spout that came with the .44 flask and it thru about 23.5 to 23.7 grs. of pistol grade Pyrodex. I had heard that the best caps back then to get this sub burning was the RWS hot cap. Wowwwwwwwwwww......! With these bullets fairley well compressed on top of that Pyrodex I was getting 1085 to 1115 fps. I wish I would have had the good sense at the time to try and work out a sensible light load. The flash from this load would burn the hairs on the bottom of my hand! At one time I was shooting from a rest with a bunch of shop rags under the gun and it caught these on fire in about 4 shots. It's a shame really that there is not any data today that details loading hollow-based conical bullets. I read years ago that there were these types of bullets loaded in the original paper cartridges during the cival war..........................
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I met a feller here who loads them paper cartriges. It's my fault that I haven't called him yet he is very knowlegable on the subject. It seems ta be a very PC way ta go. Think I'll pick up the phone tommorow.
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CC, a relative was visiting the other night and was talking about some recent dental work. She mentioned off hand that the dentist had given her some of those syringes. I mentioned I might have a use for one and she brought it to me the next day. I tried it out, and I'll tell you what, after snipping a bit off the tip to get the right flow I found it to be an invaluable addition to my gun bag. Great tip! It'd be neat to find an old style metal one to be more PC, but in the mean time, the one she gave me works great--a whole afternoon of shooting an not so much as a smidge of lube on my hands. It's faster too ;)
Howdy again, Leo!
Looky here:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8096
I have been using one for about a decade. I can heat my lube and pour it in to fill the luber. Works great. Unfortunately, the cost of materials has nearly doubled it since I bought mine. Be sure and read the review. My lube is made from Olive Oil and Beeswax ... and turns green where it contacts the brass ... but still works fine. I've also had no trouble with the rubber deteriorating - perhaps because when I come back from a shoot I re-fill it. I keep it ready for use all the time. If used sparingly I bet I could go 6 or 7 stages. (normally, our club has 6 stages at monthly matches. At the 2008 NCOWS National shoot we shot 6 stages one day and the last 4 the next. I re-filled it the evening after day 1. (My lube is soft, so I can re-fill it with a small spatula about 6" long my wife got when she was a Pampered Chef rep.) Only problem I've ever had was when I lost the brass screw plug for the spout end. A gold colored machine screw now takes its place.
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Thanks fer the link and additional info Steel. :) That one looks like it'll last ferever and fits in nicely with the other gear.
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Thanks fer the link and additional info Steel. :) That one looks like it'll last ferever and fits in nicely with the other gear.
Yep!
That's why I bought one and use it faithfully.
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Back to the sprue question:- If you put the sprue towards the powder, you cannot tell if it is centrally placed which could give an oblique plane for the gases to work against, giving a possible deviation in flight.
I'm a sprue up, man!
I also Alox lube my balls after rolling them in a steel cylindrical tin, which reduces the sprue to virtually nothing.
Angel Eyes
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Back to the sprue question:- If you put the sprue towards the powder, you cannot tell if it is centrally placed which could give an oblique plane for the gases to work against, giving a possible deviation in flight.
I'm a sprue up, man!
I also Alox lube my balls after rolling them in a steel cylindrical tin, which reduces the sprue to virtually nothing.
Angel Eyes
That sonds like something ta try. After payin a little attention, any argument against sprue up seems out the window especially with soft lead. The rammer does a number on the ball anyway, so may as well let it do it's work on the sprue.