Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Gunsmithing => Topic started by: medic15al on June 29, 2020, 09:49:41 PM
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I'd like to ask an expert...... Does the Uberti and Pietta screws interchange? Reason I'm asking is VTI doesn't offer hardened Pietta screws but do offer hardened Uberti ones.
Thanks!
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Sorry, no. I think Uberti and Colt share gripframe screw sizes, but that doesn't help you.
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Thanks Abilene!
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Medic,
Harden them yourself. A propane torch, needle nose pliers, coffee can (or the like) filled with used motor oil. Heat the screw to red hot , drop in oil. Easy as falling off a log! Mount screw in a drill motor, using steel wool or one of the various scrubby pads, clean the dark scale off the screws. You can finish the screws by using various grades of sandpaper. Color with Cold blue, or the same torch can be used to "fire blue" (gotta be careful as the color range happens quickly). For fire blueing, just slowly heat the screw and as soon as it reaches a "straw" color, it will quickly proceed through a range of colors. When the appropriate color is reached, quinch in water. If you blow through the colors by keeping the heat on too long (it'll return to white) go ahead and quinch it, you'll have to "descale " again (evèn though you can't see it) before you can attempt to re-color. A little practice and patience and you can make some great looking, hard screws. Your action will feel a little better with hard screws as well.
Mike
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The process " Dragoon " suggest is correct to a point
" A propane torch, needle nose pliers, coffee can (or the like) filled with used motor oil. Heat the screw to red hot , drop in oil "
...." clean the dark scale off " ( small brass brush (tooth brush size) very works well )
then you want to normalize ...this is done by toaster oven or range preheated to 375 , for screws 1 hour will do then remove let the screws air cool slowly.
BTW : I don't use synthetic oil or syn-blends
also I suggest you order a set of extra screws and do these too ...
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Which begs the question, why do you think you need "hardened" screws in the first place? Pietta is not known for "soft" screws and the only place this really becomes an issue is trying to initially remove some screws from Uberti rifles. Worry about more important things.
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That is a very valid point
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Which begs the question, why do you think you need "hardened" screws in the first place? Pietta is not known for "soft" screws and the only place this really becomes an issue is trying to initially remove some screws from Uberti rifles. Worry about more important things.
Because the grip screws "mushed" on me taking the grip frame off, and the bottom grip screw is stuck in and refuses to budge and the first attempt the screw deformed, essentially making it a one way screw. And yes I had a proper fit screwdriver. So far heat has done nothing.
I want to replace the 6 grip screws with something other than butter that will deform every time I remove or tighten them. These are as is from factory, I havent been able to remove that damned bottom one yet. It is going to take extra work as soon as the needed stuff comes it. I have a spare set of Pietta screws sitting here.
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I have removed lots of Pietta screws over the years and fortunately have not found them to be particularly soft and they are certainly not like "butter". Out of curiosity which model Pietta do you have and did you buy it new or used? I have accumulated six sets of gunsmith screwdrivers over the years and Brownell's is far and away the best. The screw driver tip has to fit both the length of the slot and the width of the slot. If you do more than a minimal amount of gun work I suggest you look at the item in the attached link. I have one I bought years ago and my supplier quit carrying them. I have had a lot of people ask where to get one and spent hours and hours over several days on the Internet trying to find a reasonably priced 1/4" impact driver that will accept the Brownell's tips. If you get this thing throw away the tips that come with it and use only quality gunsmith (Brownell's) tips in it. Hopefully this will save you and others a lot of search time.
What the heck!!! I have tried putting in a link to the item a couple of times and the website just puts up the Amazon symbol. It will not let me post the link. If you want it send me a PM or email and I will try attaching the link to that.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MXFFPVY/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MXFFPVY/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
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that is a good tool
I bought this one a year ago ...they are identical just branding
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08434LLKP/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_3?psc=1&uh_it=61bba77acb391c02ddc992d1a098ceab_CT&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE1Sk1NNkkzMldSU04mZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAzNzg3ODYxU0dWR0FaU0ZUVEVaJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA0NTA4NzcxWFNKUFlHM0EwUFA2JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c2Rfb25zaXRlX2Rlc2t0b3AmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
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Very strange. I just looked at CasCity on my tablet and it shows up. All I get on my Mac is an Amazon logo and the item is not visible.
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I have removed lots of Pietta screws over the years and fortunately have not found them to be particularly soft and they are certainly not like "butter". Out of curiosity which model Pietta do you have and did you buy it new or used? I have accumulated six sets of gunsmith screwdrivers over the years and Brownell's is far and away the best. The screw driver tip has to fit both the length of the slot and the width of the slot. If you do more than a minimal amount of gun work I suggest you look at the item in the attached link. I have one I bought years ago and my supplier quit carrying them. I have had a lot of people ask where to get one and spent hours and hours over several days on the Internet trying to find a reasonably priced 1/4" impact driver that will accept the Brownell's tips. If you get this thing throw away the tips that come with it and use only quality gunsmith (Brownell's) tips in it. Hopefully this will save you and others a lot of search time.
What the heck!!! I have tried putting in a link to the item a couple of times and the website just puts up the Amazon symbol. It will not let me post the link. If you want it send me a PM or email and I will try attaching the link to that.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MXFFPVY/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MXFFPVY/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
Hi Pettifogger!
The gun is new, from Cimarron as the Frontier Old Model, a black powder frame. I do have a SAA Magna Tip set, and I have a new set coming in also. Considering getting the Narrow bit set as well.
BTW, I'm not seeing anything come over the website on desktop as links if that helps.
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Can you see the item the Major and I posted? I'm not sure what you last sentence means. On my Mac computer all I see is the Amazon logo. On my IPhone and tablet I can see the item.
"BTW, I'm not seeing anything come over the website on desktop as links if that helps."
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Hopefully this photo works.
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Yes, I see it above.
I meant on your first post I quoted it was blank on my end. I see it immediately above me now. Thanks!
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Maybe you already knew this, if not it might help next time. When removing a backstrap, the two screws beside the hammer and the butt screw need to all be backed out alternately, a little at a time. If you loosen the backstrap screws too much before loosening the butt screw, there will be torque on the part and the butt screw won't budge.
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Maybe you already knew this, if not it might help next time. When removing a backstrap, the two screws beside the hammer and the butt screw need to all be backed out alternately, a little at a time. If you loosen the backstrap screws too much before loosening the butt screw, there will be torque on the part and the butt screw won't budge.
Yes sir. I did learn that on a Uberti I have. The Pietta seems to be sprung and under a good bit of tension, and I have tried loosening all 6 in increments as well.
I'm considering taking both back strap and trigger guard as a unit and somehow getting the one-piece grips out and go from there. Then try soaking in Kroil overnight. If not, I was going to tape up and use JB Weld and sacrifice an old bit in an attempt to square up the slot and try that.
Failing that I may have to order backstrap from VTI and learn to blue parts. I do not have access to a drill press and im only trained as a welder and paramedic, nothing machinery related.
And I am appreciating everybody's help and advice!
Its almost as it's welded in there.
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Which begs the question, why do you think you need "hardened" screws in the first place? Pietta is not known for "soft" screws and the only place this really becomes an issue is trying to initially remove some screws from Uberti rifles. Worry about more important things.
The way Jim Martin explained it to me was, the process the Italians use for heat treating screws is "batch" heat treating. Some don't quite get to temp so they end up on the soft side. That being said, I agree pretty much with your primis but apparently the OP has buggered up the screws in question and has decided to replace them at cost. My position is why not just harden the ones in the revolver (he can clean them up (take care of the buggered up stuff)) rather than buy "hardened ones". I do so for the reason that I say I will as part of my service and also for the reason that a hardened surface makes a better bearing surface than a soft one. The color range hopefully tempers them to some degree (as Major points out) but the different colors that end up on each screw on any particular revolver I do is a sort of "calling card" of mine which gives "uniqueness" to each revolver. Of course my main reasons are to clean them up (even new) and the lubricity enhancement.
Mike
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:) PLUS ONE too Pettifogger (ALL)
I spent 20+ years working on CAS guns. The only truly problematic screws were in Uberti rifles. Once those screws were removed the first time, future removal/reinstall was/is no problem. I learned very early on to use a quarter inch impact driver.
PLUS ONE too Pettifogger. The screws are not "butter soft." They do benefit from a fitted screw driver. I have for years used Brownells Mag Tips. Some those I also "fit". If one happens to look away or relax pressure o the driver, it will often "cam out." Not the screws fault.
I have in the past replaced OEM screws with "hardened" screws, at the customers request. I have never seen a need to do this. I often was made present with guns with already bugged screws and replaced those with OEM screws as a matter of course.
As mentioned by Abilene, it is advisable to back out the the top two screws on the Back Strap before attacking the bottom screw. If needs be, you can drill off the screw head (only the head), remove the Back Strap then work on getting the screw stud out.
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I understand drilling the head, How does the stud get out?
I'm sorry to have caused such a ruckus, but the bottom screw did mush on first attempt, even with a proper Magna-Tip. The others are fine and do turn, just that butt screw.
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When you drill in the center of the head just enough for the head to pop off the rest of the screw is left sticking out of the part. Once the pressure is removed and you separate the parts the stub of the screw can in many cases be turned out with a pair of pliers or a vise grip. I have a very tiny vise grip just for this purpose.
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Uberti and Pietta grip assembky screws are the same thread pitch. Uberti's might have a very slightly smaller head. Uberti's lock work screws I think are gen 1 thread pitch (24 tpi) while Pietta's I'm guessing are gen 2 (28 tpi).
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Once the back strap and WOOD grip are off, you can get a penetrating lubricant into the actual threads. Let it sit a day. Hit it again with a penetrating lubricant. Grab the stud with Vice Grips and carefully turn it out. If necessary, apply some heat to the bottom the Trigger Guard frame to expand it aver so slightly.
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Harbor Freight has those 1/4" impact drivers.
wM1
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Thanks Coffinmaker!
wildman, I appreciate that info, gonna go searching for them.
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I found mine in the screw driver section after I was told they did not have them.
wM1
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Because the grip screws "mushed" on me taking the grip frame off, and the bottom grip screw is stuck in and refuses to budge and the first attempt the screw deformed, essentially making it a one way screw. And yes I had a proper fit screwdriver. So far heat has done nothing.
I want to replace the 6 grip screws with something other than butter that will deform every time I remove or tighten them. These are as is from factory, I havent been able to remove that damned bottom one yet. It is going to take extra work as soon as the needed stuff comes it. I have a spare set of Pietta screws sitting here.
Invest in a small impact driver and a good set of gunsmithing bits like Brownells Magna-tip bits and don't hesitate to use the impact driver on any and every screw that even gives you the slightest resistance which will likely be every single screw on the first disassembly of a new gun. After the first time taking it apart everything should be fine from then on. I have no problem with even the soft Uberti screws as long as it doesn't get damaged on first disassembly. First thing I do is take apart a new gun completely before I even work the action.
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I've got a few different impact drivers and by far the best one I've used is the one from Garrett Wade but I see they are not available now which is a bummer because I was wanting to get the set since I only have the small one. The small one is the only one you need for gun stuff you can buy the small one separate or at least you could.
https://www.garrettwade.com/pro-screw-loosening-impact-driver-set-gp.html