Author Topic: USFA San Juan Hill SAA  (Read 1886 times)

Offline IronMountainPete

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USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« on: April 12, 2021, 04:13:38 PM »
I recently acquired a USFA San Juan Hill SAA with the black powder frame.  Gun is in nearly perfect condition.  From what I have researched they were only built in 1998 and have very low production numbers, but that is all I have been able to ascertain about this revolver.  It appears to be Turnbull Case Hardened and the bluing is amazing deep dark black.  Clearly not a standard finish.  I know this is a parts gun as it does not have the conical firing pin.  It has two serial numbers on it, one matching the original SJH pistol that is in the National Firearms Museum, and the second Serial # is NFM040.  Does anyone have any information to how many of these were made and if there is much collector value?  I do not have the box with the gun so thinking of using it as a shooter.

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2021, 04:44:26 PM »
Pete,
Welcome to our forum!
To be perfectly honest with you,this is the first I have ever heard of the San Juan Hill model USFA so I would assume that you are correct in stating that very few of them were made.  As for the 1998 production year, that would make it an all Uberti parts gun.  As to collector value, I will leave that to others more knowledgeable than I.
You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2021, 05:06:49 PM »
This is the only information I have been able to find about this reproduction.
http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940504/a%20rough%20riders%20colt.pdf

Offline Buckaroo Lou

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2021, 08:48:18 PM »
Does this revolver have a USFA roll marking on the barrel? If so could you provide a photo of the barrel roll markings?

I am like Capt. John, I have never heard of this revolver and it is not listed in Blue Book of Gun Values under USFA.
A man's true measure is found not in what he says but in what he does.

Offline GaryG

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2021, 08:52:46 PM »
I don’t know how many of the Rough Rider guns were built but as the serial number suggests there were at least 40 (Uberti) sold through Cherrys.  At the 2005 (maybe 2006) Shot Show we had a Rough Rider gun on display.  All US parts, mis-matched serial numbers and “antiqued” the way it was orginally done.  The parts were rusted and then rusting process stopped.  The guns had a light freckling and looked old.  The problem was if the rusting process wasn’t totally stopped, rusting would continue after the gun was boxed and shipped.  A few got out and were totally rusted/pitted upon arrival at the dealer.  The process was eventually changed to a wire wheel, steel wool and oil. 

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #5 on: Today at 06:40:55 PM »

Offline Buckaroo Lou

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2021, 09:15:28 PM »
GaryG, Were all the guns sold through Cherry's only and was the one on display at the shot show the only all US parts revolver made?
A man's true measure is found not in what he says but in what he does.

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2021, 09:42:27 PM »
Here is a pic of the barrel roll marks.

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2021, 09:45:32 PM »
all numbers are mismatched on this revolver to match the Louis G. Bishop gun on display at the National Firearms museum  On the frame and butt of the revolver.  the only difference in the NFM number.  Same numbers and Proof Marks as well as RAC on the cylinder , exactly like the original.

Online Abilene

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2021, 10:52:36 PM »
The pictures are small, but from what I can see and IronMountainPete's description of the finish on this gun, and hearing from GaryG that they were all antiqued, I'm thinking maybe this one was refinished at some point?

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2021, 10:57:35 PM »
I would be happy to provide hi-res photos which will reveal factory finish.  I am more curious about getting to the bottom of the origin of this piece that actual valuation. 

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #10 on: Today at 06:40:55 PM »

Offline GaryG

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2021, 06:50:43 AM »
I wasn't around for the Cherry guns so don't know the final finish.  The antique guns started with the Gunslinger and the Shot Show San Juan was antiqued and all US parts. Mis matched numbers and no NFM serial number.   All the Gunslingers were all US too.

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2021, 08:42:40 AM »
Here is a link to the only other one I have seen available, confirming finish.  Not much information however.
https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/usfa-single-action-army-nfm-san-juan-hill-artillery-45-lc-single-action-6-rounds-5.5-barrel-2.2-used?p=22532

Offline Buckaroo Lou

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2021, 12:24:10 PM »
Here is a link to the only other one I have seen available, confirming finish.  Not much information however.
https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/usfa-single-action-army-nfm-san-juan-hill-artillery-45-lc-single-action-6-rounds-5.5-barrel-2.2-used?p=22532

IronMountainPete, that is a nice looking revolver and looks very similar to USFA's Government Inspector series artillery revolver. The Government Inspector series guns had the old Armory blue instead of the dark Dome bluing. The revolver in the link you have provided has a number of features to suggest it is likely an Italian parts revolver. Nice revolver though.
A man's true measure is found not in what he says but in what he does.

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2021, 02:18:46 PM »
There was no doubt in my mind that it is an Italian Parts gun.  My biggest interest was to know the specs on the gun.  It looks like a Turnbull case hardened and finished gun.  Also curious how many were made as I cant find any information about the gun.  Wondering if there was any collector value to the gun from a USFA Collector standpoint, or if I should just shoot the hell out of it.

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2021, 04:32:20 PM »
Pete,
The link to your "documentation" indicates that your gun was sold by "Cherry's" firearms sales. Cherry's has a history of marketing guns that they have special ordered, in limited numbers, from various manufacturers that are only available through them.  I would assume that your gun is one of them.  That would make your San Juan Hill USFA a Cherry's limited edition and not, necessarily, a USFA limited edition.
As for collector value, the Uberti USFA's rank a distant second to the all US made models.  A shame because, back in the day, those Italian USFA's were head and shoulders above their Uberti brothers, just not as well done as the later made all US guns.
So... if it was mine I would go ahead and "shoot the hell out of it" and any potential collector value (which I believe would be minimal) be damned!
CJF   
You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2021, 05:21:25 PM »
Bummer that there is no collector value, but I bought it to shoot it anyway.  If anyone is recording the history of these guns and would like hi-res images to document this Revolver, I would be happy to provide that information.

Offline Buckaroo Lou

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2021, 11:09:57 PM »
Pete, I would think the one antiqued all US parts San Juan Hill gun GaryG mentioned that was at the shot show would very much have collector value, but like Capt. John said the ones contracted by Cherry's not so sure. I only have two USFA'a that haven't been fired and only one of them is a safe queen.
A man's true measure is found not in what he says but in what he does.

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2021, 09:35:28 AM »
To anyone who may be interested.  I reached out to Cherrys and here was their response.  "This is something we did under contract with the NRA Museum.  All the guns were done at USFA in Hartford.  They finished the guns and shipped them directly to Cherry's for delivery to our customers.  Not many of the guns were ever made.  I am trying to remember but maybe 50 to 75 guns were actually produced."  Now we know!  Cherrys was very gracious to provide this information for me overnight in an email. 

Offline IronMountainPete

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2021, 01:31:00 PM »
Final Update:  Just heard back from Turnbull, and they have records to support that all 50-75 of the San Juan Hill guns for USFA were Case Hardened and Charcoal Blued at their facility.

Here is what we know for whomever comes across another one of these:

Replica of the Louis G. Bishop, Rough Rider Colt held in the National Firearms Museum
Black Powder, Case Hardened Frame. Charcoal Blued barrel with 5 1/2" barrel, chambered in 45 Colt
D.F.C inspection marks on underside of barrel and on frame, above frame serial#.  Also a P proof mark on underside of barrel
OCH  (Odus C Horney) Cartouche on left grip panel with 1901 over the top of it
RAC  (Rinaldo A. Carr) Cartouche on right grip with a small R.A.C stamped on bottom of grip
Frame stamped "US" next to Patent dates
Cylinder stamped in 3 places, (8222, R.A.C, and P)
Grip serial# 119276
Trigger serial# 93910 with a G beneath it
Frame serial# NFM###
Total Build: 50-75 pieces
Turnbull finished all pieces
Build was commissioned by the National Firearms Museum in 1998, through USFA for a limited run to be sold exclusively through Cherry's.

Offline beefmalone

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Re: USFA San Juan Hill SAA
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2021, 09:56:56 PM »
learned something new  ;D

 

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