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CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => Topic started by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 10:23:07 AM

Title: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 10:23:07 AM
The Austrian Adams type 562” revolvers...based on the already mighty British Adams 54”  ( 12,4 mm) revolver.

Years ago I saw one on display in the military museum of Prague. Popular in their time among wealthy civilians and officers in Central and Eastern Europe....and virtually ignored by the gun press today.

Maybe the Walker was  “the most powerful revolver” for a few years only, until these revolvers appeared on the market?
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: hellgate on February 04, 2021, 11:31:55 AM
How many grains of powder did it take and what was the bullet weight. It reminds me of the double action Starr revolver that was pretty much a failure to hit anything with.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 01:41:33 PM
Simple calculation.

562” round ball=240 grains. ( same weigth as a 44 mag standard bullet).

The chamber  measures 14 mm diameter x 27 mm long= 27x3,1416x 49 =41 cubic centimeters = 58 grains  3F powder maximum charge,

In short, 240 grain bullet X 58 grains charge.

By comparison, a Colt Walker

141 grains bulletX 55/58 grains maximum charge.


Calculations based on 240 grains/141 grains= 1,7 times more mass in the 562 round ball than in the 454 ball, so this revolver migth well almost double the Colt Walker in muzzle energy.

This revolver  is based on the Adams Beaumont design, which was vey sucessful and efective. There are several units  of them in collections and museums in Europe, so it was industrially manufactured  and relative sucessful, but not in the USA so it was virtually unknown to US gun writers, thought well documented in Europe.

Lets not forget the original british Adams Beaumont  Dragoon  revolvers, the large frame configurations, shooting a 540 “ caliber bullet of 227 grainsX60  grains of powder....quite more powerful, around 60%, than  the Colt Walker,

So Myth busted, no, the Colt Walker was not the most powerful Revolver, as both British and Austrian large caliber industrial revolvers were quite more powerful.


Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: Dave T on February 04, 2021, 02:40:07 PM
With that skinny grip and that recoil shoulder on that back strap I can't imagine shooting that thing would be anything but painfui. I don't need bragging rights enough for that one. My full power 45 Colt BP loads are more than enough, thank you.

Dave
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: Capt Quirk on February 04, 2021, 03:24:54 PM
"I beg you, PLEASE, don't make me shot you!"
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: River City John on February 04, 2021, 03:45:23 PM
Reminds me of those Gawd-awful Ugly/Beautiful Montenegro-type pistols.

They sit so high and top heavy in the hand that they are sure to be wrist breakers in recoiling.
Must have had to have a lackey standing behind you leaning into and pushing against your shoulders to keep you from being thrown backward at every discharge.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 04:17:32 PM
With that skinny grip and that recoil shoulder on that back strap I can't imagine shooting that thing would be anything but painfui. I don't need bragging rights enough for that one. My full power 45 Colt BP loads are more than enough, thank you.

Dave

Have you shot an Adams a Beaumont revolver? I did. In my opinion,  more comfortable and offers much more control than  Colts, which, by the way, for medium hands,  is quite good.

The grip is not thin, but it is the frame, which is huge, that makes the grip look small.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 04:20:37 PM
Reminds me of those Gawd-awful Ugly/Beautiful Montenegro-type pistols.

They sit so high and top heavy in the hand that they are sure to be wrist breakers in recoiling.
Must have had to have a lackey standing behind you leaning into and pushing against your shoulders to keep you from being thrown backward at every discharge.


In my opinion, that grip looks perfect. It is an Adams Beaumont grip, maybe a bit larger, and the Adams grip is very comfortable with a perfect angle, like a Luger pistol.

This is me, after shooting my friend’s, some years ago. What a wonderful revolver, the Adams revolver. This is the standard frame, in 451 caliber, not the big Dragoon in 54” caliber, a gun probably more powerful than a Walker.

Probably one of the most comfortable cap and ball revolvers to shoot thanks to its advanced grip design.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 04:28:24 PM
Perfect grip.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: Cap'n Redneck on February 04, 2021, 04:29:18 PM
This one might not qualify, on account of it being some gunsmiths "one-off custom"....but I don't think they come any bigger than this...?
.75 caliber round ball, the powder column being at least .75" tall by .75" diameter.  3F Shotgunpowder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YziAAEG5sf8
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 04:33:28 PM
It is a smooth bore custom made revolver, unshootable because the back axis will destroy the shooting hand.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: Cap'n Redneck on February 04, 2021, 04:37:28 PM
Then there's the Tranter .577 caliber:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amr6e9JLwvM

Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 04:40:53 PM
I am talking about cap and ball revolvers,  not Centerfire era revolvers. In the Centerfire era, we have lots of British revolvers shooting  577 bullets, like the Webley No 1 revolver or the Bland Pryse revolvers,and their Belgian and Vasque clones, many sold in the Turkish and Middle East markets until the 1900s.


However, I doubt they were more powerful  as the cartridges were very low speed, carrying moderate charges of rifle powder, around 20 grains, and rarely surpassing 600 FPS or maybe a little more.

We are talking about 3 times that charge in the cap and ball British and Austrian revolvers. Almost true 44 magnums.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: Cap'n Redneck on February 04, 2021, 05:26:31 PM
I think the calculation of the .562" round ball is a little off, according to LEE Precision it weighs 266,46 grains.

https://leeprecision.com/mold-d-c-ball-562.html

Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 04, 2021, 06:42:33 PM
 I think you might be rigth,,I took my data from Pedersoli,..the truth probably lies between both values.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: G Bulldog Grainisland III on February 05, 2021, 04:45:03 AM
Most interesting! It seems that this monster beats mighty Walker hands down. Having said that, I'll stick to my Uberti Walker anyhow

-Bulldog
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: Blackpowder Burn on February 07, 2021, 05:44:16 PM
Does your chamber volume calculation take into account the reduction due to the volume taken up by the ball?
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 08, 2021, 04:12:09 PM
Yes,


Cilinder length ( excluding star and including nipples)=55 mm .

Total Chamber depth=41mm aproximately being conservative

Practical Powder capacity =41-14 mm ball diameter=27mm



Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: Dick Dastardly on February 08, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
I'd put up the Ruger Old Army as a contender.  I've seen it loaded up to .454 Casull  pressures in Kirst Konverter cylinders.  But, that's with heathen smokeyless fad powder.  Those kind of pressures wouldn't be tolerated in other BP guns.

The most pressure in 45Colt brass is around 1200psi.

DD-MDA
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 08, 2021, 04:31:02 PM
The important thing here is that we have so many myths about the past. And a second lesson here is that gun writers...don’t know it all, as we sometimes suppose.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: llanerosolitario on February 10, 2021, 07:45:42 AM
Here is a link:

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14520655
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: mtmarfield on April 22, 2021, 12:22:34 AM
      Greetings, All!

   There was at least one Tranter / Webley No.1 .577" Revolver with an Auxiliary Powder & Ball cylinder; it was
written up in an "Guns & Ammo Annual" in the 70's...
   These Magnum Double-Action Cap & Balls look magnificent! So... Who in Italy is going to step up to the plate...?

                         M.T.M.
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: River City John on April 22, 2021, 06:40:22 AM
   These Magnum Double-Action Cap & Balls look magnificent! So... Who in Italy is going to step up to the plate...?

                         M.T.M.

Dream on, McDuff.
In a world where just how much cornmeal to put in your cartridges is regularly discussed, - not nearly enough people can afford to hire the stout fellow needed to stand behind you pushing against your back when you'd go to shoot it.   ;) ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the most powerful BP revolver ever?
Post by: Galloway on April 22, 2021, 11:55:17 AM
How about that center barrel on the le matte? You could add powder and lead to top anything couldnt you?