Special Interests - Groups & Societies > The Winchester Model 1886

Help for Browning 1886?

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Hi again

I've decided to NOT work up a 405 grain lead load and just buy enough .45-70 Federal 405 grain lead loads for what I need to do.  Two reasons, first of all, it will waste my time, I don't need but 80 rounds of the stuff, and if I buy Federal, I won't mix it up with my 405 grain reloads for my Cavalry Sharps (which might be bad). 

I still have a bit of a concern.  I plan on using 300 grain Jacketed Hollow Point bullet using IMR 3031 powder, Starline Cases, and Winchester Large Rifle Primers. The 50th Lyman Powder Manual minimum is 48.0 grains, maximum load is 52.0 grains.  Note that the IMR website states that the loads for a 300 grain JHP are from 58.0 grains to 64.0 grains.  That’s a 12.0 grain difference between Lyman and IMR.  Is that something that somebody besides little me should be worried about?  Yes, it IS in the Lever gun section of both the book and the website.


King Medallion:

--- Quote from: larryo1 on March 17, 2017, 04:02:25 PM ---
I think that about all that has been accomplished in this chatter is just that chatter.  Bu--you may get something out of all it.

--- End quote ---

Larry, I'll be happy to read your chatter any day, sometimes it's like a history lesson, always a great read. I'd like to read more about your hunts with these fine old rifles.

Well, as I said, I have used that 58 grain of 3031 for a lot of years and in all those calibers that I mentioned with no ill effects except for my shoulder now and then.  They shoot clean and hit hard and really do the job great!  Like I said, that .33 has been a bugger to work up loads for but, in my research, I did run across an article written back in the late 30's or early 40's about that rifle.  I tried some of that data and it really works!  So that problem got solved.  That is a nice little rifle ( if you can call an '86 little!)  It is super great to hand carry and since it don't have a long barrel, it is great in the woods and such.  The one time that I took it after elk--I think that I can tell a tale here) my cousin and I went up the North Fork of the Flathead to see what we could see.  Got into a batch of down Lodgepole and run across a couple of bulls.  I got ready to shoot and then thought that it would have been a real mess to get that bull out were it had been shot.  It was only about 20 yards away but in very heavy down timber so I decided not to shoot as we would  have had to cut our way to it and then cut our way out with pack stock so we went back to camp and drank whiskey the rest of the day. I know, I suppose that I coulda shoulda but didn't and don't have any regrets either except my teeth itched something fierce the next morning!

That 45-90 is a really good hunting rifle.  We went down to Ekalaka one fall to the wifes relatives who had a big ranch down there and I got a really nice big buck down there with that rifle and load I told you about.  One thing about those old rifles, they do shoot really good and don't seem to whine about distances either.  My oldest boy, with his 40-82 got quite a bit of shooting done with his rifle down there and got really good with it.  I had been putting in for moose permits for several years and no luck but he did only once and got his and got his moose with that rifle. People can say what they want to about all these new-fangled magnum rifles but i plan to stick with our old-timers.

PJ Hardtack:
I've shot a lot of 420 Lyman 457193 with 36 grs of Varget or 3031. Doesn't belt you and gets the job done. I've dropped two moose with my Browning '86 using the first load.

Try 28 grs of 5744 as well. All these loads would be very mild with 405 gr bullets.

--- Quote from: 1961MJS on March 17, 2017, 01:14:50 AM ---Hi

I'm getting ready for the GAF match this June and I have a  Chiappa 1886 with a 26 inch barrell, 405 grain Missouri bullet lead flat nosed bullets, and a few pounds of 3031.  What is the minimum and maximum starting load for that combination?


--- End quote ---

Just a comment on the .33 WCF. This cartridge is nothing but the .45-70 case tapered and necked down to .338".  It was never a black powder round, smokeless only. Back in the early '70's Hornady made a beautiful .338" 200 gr. jacketed FLAT softpoint bullet. Sadly, they discontinued the bullet awhile back, and flat pointed bullets are a must in the tubular magazine.  (Before Hornady came out with their FSP, I did use some roundnose bullets, and didn't have a problem. I also took a file and flattened the lead nose of some, just to be on the safe side. As far as loads with the Hornady bullet, after much experimenting and when Herters was importing what they called Herters 100, which was made by Eley-Kynoch, and later marketed as "Scots 4351", which was probably around the burning rate somewhere between IMR 4320 and IMR4350.  I used 51 gr. behind the Hornady JFP 200 gr., which gave an average MV of 2350 ft/sec and a maximum pressure of 43,500 psi as measured using the Oehler 43PBL strain gage system.

Recoil did not seem excessive, but I did have a solid rubber recoil pad installed on the stock.  I took several European wild boar in Tennessee in 1963, but using some Connecticut Cartridge Corp. bullets and 39 gr. IMR3031 @ 2200 ft./sec. CCC stopped producing ammo for the civilian market when 'Nam cranked up, and they turned to government contracts.

As far as accuracy was concerned, the Hornady bullets were the best, but the CCC slugs did okay. In one instance there was some overpenetration, as I shot clear through one hawg and wounded another hidden behind it, and had to put that one down as well. Range IIRC was about 25 yds.!  :o

NOTE: I cannot be responsible for the use of the above data in anyone's rifle but my own, and maybe not even then! (Standard disclaimer.)



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