Special Interests - Groups & Societies > The Cutting Edge
Question regarding a big butcher knife
'Monterrey' Jack Brass:
All,
Awhile back I picked up a rather unusually large butcher knife at a southern Ohio antique store. I’d never seen a butcher this large so I had to add it to my collection of original similar knives. What better place to inquire about this knife than here.
The blade length is 14.5 inches, overall length is 21 inches. Maker is ‘Worth’. Apparently Worth cutlery started out around 1870 and was primarily a big razor manufacturer.
Stamped on Blade (as it appears):
WORTH
SHEAR STEEL B. WORTH AND SONS
CUTLERS, SHEFFIELD
ENG.
As you can see (revolver added to photo only as a reference for size) this knife is rather large. The 6 pin handle is proportionately large to the blade so from a distance it looks like a normal butcher knife. But when I pick it up I feel like a 7 year old holding a normal sized butcher.
I’m not sure why the heck it was made so large and have no documentation indicating what the purpose of such a large knife was. I can only figure it was a salesman’s example or something for a trade show, or more likely intended for commercial application like meat cutting at a slaughter house. Maybe it was something intended to be a trade knife? All of this is pure conjecture and I hope you guys may know the facts.
If anyone here can assist with facts/documentation on this knife I’d appreciate it. Though opinions are welcomed if you have documentation please cite sources as it’s always valued and appreciated.
YMH&OS,
Brass
ChuckBurrows:
Howdy Jack -
Just a Big Ole Butcher knife and not all that unusual - Old Hickory aka Ontario Knife stills makes them with 14" blades
http://www.knivesplus.com/QN-714-Old-Hickory.HTML
and although of a different shape here's another old big one from Shapleighs Hardware of St. Louis whose knives were also built by Ontario
http://cgi.ebay.com.my/HUGE-VINTAGE-SHAPLEIGHS-CHEFS-CHEFS-BUTCHER-KNIFE-17_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ270343989890
The real big ones are usually used by slaughter houses (the local guys use them a lot) or butchers that still cut up the meat from sides so they're mostly intended for the commercial market.
I've seen a bunch of the big ones over the last 40+ years - the blade on the following trade style knife was made from a 16" Old Hickory I found at an abandoned logging camp in Western Washington that closed down circa 1900-05.
With the country of origin mark on the blade it dates it after 1890 or 1900 - don't remember which right off. Being shear steel would date it most likely to pre WW 1 - many of the old time Sheffield steel makers were killed during the war and the older methods of making blister steel and it's refined versions of shear and cast steel were discontinued shortly after the war.
The cites are out there for all this so it's not opinion, but after a 70 hr work week sorry I tain't got the time nor inclination to look them up right now anyway - regarding shear steel and it's manufacture, look up steel making in Sheffield England as well as shear steel and cast steel - Google Books has a couple real good sources on steel making the old way......
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=IVcPAAAAYAAJ&dq=cementation+of+steel&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=T_Npuofz-W&sig=eWt8jS9rmvhu5FTQljf8hG-K2NM&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPR9,M1
http://books.google.com/books?id=Rh5KAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=cementation+of+steel&source=web&ots=rn9mfIq0x4&sig=4yyBuq4Nq7aYmzmUslIuFGmIHgQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA86,M1
Hope this helps...........
Ten Wolves Fiveshooter:
Howdy all
This knife was most likely used as a breaking knife years ago when the band saw was not in use yet, today a 8" and 10" breaking knives are more popular, the length and weight of this knife made breaking a carcass down a lot easier than trying to do it with a smaller lighter knife, and we're talking about wholesale packing houses now, in the meat market the meat cutters would use a large knife to cut boned out primal cuts into roast and steaks, before the band saw came along they/we used to cut full cut round steaks with a large knife like this, but usually it would be 12" long, this large knife would allow you to cut nice thin cuts of the round for use as pan frying and swissing, today there isn't much use for a big knife like this, but back in the day, with strong hands and arms it made the butchers day a lot easier.
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
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'Monterrey' Jack Brass:
CB & 10W - This definitely narrows the field and your inputs are welcomed as always. I had a bit of a hunch it might be something to do with a commercial meat application of some sort, Sporting such a knife in the field in any fashion would have been cumbersome. Interesting info about the shear steels as well. So now my big knife (what I have nick-named my 'hand-and-a-half') is getting a history to go with it. And it looks great in the period knife collection to boot (& not too bad for $25.00).
What a great site this is regarding knives and edged things - there's more to the intersting history of the old west than just guns, to be sure.
Thanks again,
YMH&OS,
Brass
Delmonico:
I've found two like that, the first one was a Sheffield, can't remember the brand, had rosewood handles, passed it off to a Potawattimie (sp) frined of mine cause he always called me the Patawattmie word for Whiteman which meant Long Knife, told him it was two long for me, he made a beaded sheafe for it, I'm guessing it's stored in his gear for his son at his mother's place since he passed in 2005.
The other one was a more modern Dexter with a maple handles. Rasped off the branded Dexter on the handle. My pard Gopher Grease loved the thing and when he moved to Reno I traded it to him for the cupboard he built that I use at events.
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