CAS TOPICS > Gunsmithing
Harrington & Richardson serial resources?
Capt Quirk:
I came across an old H&R auto ejecting S&W .38, and I'd like to know how old. I found that 1,300,000 models in 32 and 38 call, were produced between 1899 and 1940. But even the H&R site didn't have a chart. The numbers under the left grip are 215 xxx
Claypipe:
Most of the dating on H&R, Iver Johnson and others are based on guess work comparing the guns with newspaper and magazine ads. There are some books about based on this research. But a precise dating is not available at this time.
Professor Marvel:
Most gunsmiths and shops can offer little or nothing on these fine old pieces, because it's not what they do.
But the Collectors have documented and itemized them very nicely. The best collectors books on the topic are
by Bill Goforth who wrote on the H&R guns.
https://www.amazon.com/Bill-Goforth-1871-1986-First-Hardcover/dp/B00RWS4AKE
now his book is a collectable!
but here is some info for you from some of the H&R collectors out there.
These guys know their stuff
some general information
https://thereaderwiki.com/en/H_%26_R_Firearms
from knight0334
https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=288194
......
The roll-stamp on top of the barrel determines the model and variation, which in turn determines the year, or range of years it was made. The patent dates, and/or the spelling of the state, are factors used to figure that out. With exception of a couple variations of the 2nd Model's letters in the serial numbers, serial numbers themselves on pre-1940 H&R mean nothing....
With it having the caliber stamped on the side means it is a smokeless gun, most typically made after 1904. (there were a few smokeless pre-1905 guns made for testing and sales)
===================================================================
a serial number of six digit usually means post 1905 manufacture in the H&R line.
from b.goforth himself
https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/h-r-38-s-w-ctge.75244/
AUTOMATIC EJECTING THIRD MODEL
(SMOKELESS POWDER)---------------------------------------1905-1940
Auto-ejecting mechanism, Calibers 32 S&W Long, 6 shot cylinder capacity, 38 S&W caliber 5 shot cylinder capacity, hard rubber grip panels with Target Logo, nickel finish (blue optional), barrel lengths of 2½ (rare), 3¼ (standard), 4, 5 & 6 inches available, top of barrel markings include company name and address and early production has patent dates, the one recognizable difference in the Second and Third Models is the caliber is marked on the left side of the barrel on the Third Model
“IF IT HAS A CALIBER MARKED ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BARREL THEN IT WAS MANUFACTURED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER”
First Variation 4 patent dates (5-14 & 8-6-89, 4-2-95, 4-7-97) model name and caliber on left side of barrel------------1905-1908
Second Variation 2 patent dates (8-6-89 and 10-8-95) model name and caliber on left side of barrel----------------------1909-1912
Third Variation no patent dates the name of the state is marked as MASS-----------------------------------------------------1913-1915
Fourth Variation no patent dates the state name of Massachusetts is spelled---------------------------------------------------1916-1924
Fifth Variation new grip frame, it is now the same size as the rest of the frame with no step down for the grip panel—1925-1941
After 1931 listed in Catalogs as: AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 10 .32 S&W LONG CALIBER 6 shots and AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 25 .38 S&W CALIBER 5 shots
After 1932 listed in Catalogs as: AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 20..38 S&W CALIBER 5 shots
=======================================
from Wiregrassguy
https://www.smithandwessonforums.com/threads/h-r-auto-eject-info.39437/
..... if the SN doesn't begin with a letter, it was made before 1942. Are there patent dates stamped on top of the barrel? The last one should give you a starting date. I suspect the gun was made in the 1920s, probably among the last they made before ceasing production. I base this on the SNs in the 100K range were made around 1915. There was an expert named Bill Goforth who wrote books on the H&R guns. He died in 2011, but his books are likely still available. One of the local book stores may have a copy you can peruse.
===========================================
from https://www.go2gbo.com/threads/h-r-auto-ejecting-model-3-3rd-variation.389194/
posted by Old No7
AUTOMATIC EJECTING THIRD MODEL (SMOKELESS POWDER) 1905-1940
Auto-ejecting mechanism, Calibers 32 S&W Long, 6 shot cylinder capacity, 38 S&W caliber 5 shot cylinder capacity, hard rubber grip panels with Target Logo, nickel finish (blue optional), barrel lengths of 2½ (rare), 3¼ (standard), 4, 5 & 6 inches available, top of barrel markings include company name and address and early production has patent dates, the one recognizable difference in the Second and Third Models is the caliber is marked on the left side of the barrel on the Third Model -- “IF IT HAS A CALIBER MARKED ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BARREL THEN IT WAS MANUFACTURED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER”.
First Variation 4 patent dates (5-14 & 8-6-89, 4-2-95, 4-7-97) model name and caliber on left side of barrel ---1905-1908
Second Variation 2 patent dates (8-6-89 and 10-8-95) model name and caliber on left side of barrel ---1909-1912
Third Variation no patent dates the name of the state is marked as MASS----1913-1915
Fourth Variation no patent dates the state name of Massachusetts is spelled---1916-1924
Fifth Variation new grip frame, it is now the same size as the rest of the frame with no step down for the grip panel—1925-1941
After 1931 listed in Catalogs as:
AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 10 .32 S&W LONG CALIBER 6 shots and AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 25 .38 S&W CALIBER 5 shots
After 1932 38 caliber is listed in Catalogs as: AUTOMATIC EJECTING No. 20..38 S&W CALIBER 5 shots
=================================
hope this helps
Prof Marvel
Advertising:
Capt Quirk:
Many thanks, Perfessor. That isn't exact, but good enough to satisfy my curiosity. I'd look at the pistol, but forgot where I stowed it. If'n I were to be even more honest, I kinda forgot about it, until I saw this post.
Major 2:
As always the Professor is SPOT on ....Bill Goforth's book is the bible for Iver Johnson and H&R guns and collectors
I am sorry to say Mr. Goforth had gone on to be with the Lord in January 2021...
I'm unsure if his book will carry on in future printings ....
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