Author Topic: Fillers ?  (Read 1823 times)

Offline Slamfire

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Fillers ?
« on: December 12, 2020, 04:46:33 PM »
 Trying to do pics.,,,,,, I'm learning to use fillers,, w/ 26gn. H-4198 in my 40-60 , w/ .215gn.  ( 403168 ) w/ 1.0gn. of ( teddy bear guts )
, I stuffed the Dacron filler in to the top of the case ,, not down on the powder ,, I let the bullet push the filler down on the powder .

 I cut a case open and super glued a plastic cover on to give me a ideal of how much filler I would need, not to tight but full up to bottom of bullet ,,, ( 1gn. - 1.4gn. max ) ,, so am I close ?

 coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2020, 05:06:50 PM »
to stir the pot a bit could ground corn cob tumbler media be satisfactory as filler in a .45-70 Black gunpowder load.
corn meal and grits gets eaten around this camp not shot out on the ground.
Just askin'
load'em heavy boys
they air a'comin
Bunk'

Offline Cap'n Redneck

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2020, 06:02:06 PM »
@ Mr. Stagnerg:  I am in agreement with You, Sir.  Grits is to good eatin' to be sprayed out on the shooting range. 
I have heard of "used up" tumbler media being used in place of over-powder wads in blackpowder shotgun loads.  Just one overpowder card on top of the powder load, then a suitable amount of tumbler media, topped by another card, then the shot load, and finally an overshot card and roll crimp.

The thing with many fillers is that they are quite dry, and don't do much except take up the extra space in the cartridge case.

Now; sesame seeds, on the other hand, contain about 50% fat.  That fat is transformed into a lubricant as the cartridge is fired, and it keeps blackpowder fouling in the barrel soft between shots.
"As long as there's lead in the air, there's still hope..."
Frontiersman & Frontiersman Gunfighter: The only two categories where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s.

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #3 on: Today at 12:38:26 PM »

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2020, 06:33:34 PM »
Thanks Cap, but I use Big Lube bullets that carry a load of lube. All I need is something to full us that cavernous case over 50 grains of powder.
Tomorrow is loading day and i will try the corncob. The column will be  Powder, fiber wad, corncob and bullet. That should be the ticket.
Thanks
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk
Bunk

Offline AntiqueSledMan

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2020, 07:27:04 AM »
Hello Guys,

The filler's main purpose is to keep the powder against the primer correct?
A gentleman here on CasCity has me tuned into Biodegradable Packaging Peanuts.
I'm loading 20gr of Black MZ in the 45 Colt with a chunk of peanut between the powder and my 200gr bullet.
I simply cut off a piece the length I need with an Olfa Knife, roll it between my fingers and stuff it in above the powder.
The stuff shows up for "Free" on the front step in packages.
To determine if it's Biodegradable, place one in your hand & run some water over it.
If it disappears, you got the Biodegradable stuff.
I've been told it's not necessary, but it sure doesn't hurt anything.
The only downfall I have seen is the fact that occasionally you can see one burning as they go down range,
this might be an issue in dry weather.

AntiqueSledMan.

Offline Slamfire

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2020, 08:35:09 AM »
ASM ,, another type filler ,, was going to use COW-corn mill ,, Buck mentioned Grits ,, that made me hungry , so now no Grits ( w/ butter )  :-[ ,, I can see this could be a lot of fun, but for now i'm going to start w/ poly-fill . ( I love this place , LMAO )  ;D

 coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2020, 01:00:29 PM »
Well as it worked out filler was not needed. Fifty grains of Gunpowder and a Big Lube 405 grain bullet, which is long as a well rope, fills the space in the .45-70 case and gives about a sixteenth of an inch compression.
FYI that Big Lube bullet carries almost five grains of lube. Now that IS big.
Bunk

Offline Black River Smith

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2020, 04:36:55 PM »
Slamfire,

I would not personally trust the cartridge load you created and display in your OP and I would not trust any of the comments that follow your OP.  You are asking about using a filler with smokeless powder,  all the responses thus for are all about BP loading.  They are totally different approaches.

A filler for smokeless should be just a small ball of material that just holds the powder on the primer and should never, never be compressed, unlike that needed in a BP cartridge.  The filler should not move around in the casing, so it does not become an obstruction or secondary object in the casing.  This situation could cause a chamber ring bulge.

Materials used in smokeless cases and BP are totally different.

Therefore, I have attached a link to a different site that has a 7 page posting of fillers for smokeless powders.  http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

This should help you get a better idea of what to use and how.  I started with Dacron then stopped because I was not using light loads, just standard.  Then with the 45/60 I again thought about using a filler and got Kapok.  I tried it on a few cases but again stopped thinking the case where filled enough to not experience powder to primer separation.  Plus, the technique I was using was tedious.  Now if necessary I try to find a powder that fills more of the casing but is still within specs and velocities I want, even though you are using more up.  That way no powder to primer separation when working or moving your firearm around.

Good luck on your experiences.

BRS

P.S.  I would like to see a photo of a similar casing without the filler and laying horizontally.  That way you would see how the powder would be spread when in the chamber.
Black River Smith

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2020, 08:52:47 PM »
please understand the filler is for use in some Black Gunpowder loads ONLY. I would never use any filler or other foreign substance in a smokessomewhatless powder load...EVER!!
Bunk

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2020, 05:25:17 AM »
P.S.
careless of me i am in the wrong place, I should be in the Darksiders Den .
Yes fillers with  smokessomewhatless powders is a really bad idea.
Fillers with real Black Gunpowder like Mr. Du Pont intended is perfectly proper.
Excuse me
Bunk

Offline King Medallion

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2020, 09:37:07 AM »
The few times I need filler, I use laundry lint from towels. A pinch the size of your thumbnail is all you need.
King Medallion

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2020, 09:51:40 AM »

 :)  Splash . . . I wanna wade in   ;)

Sometime back there were several threads on several boards and several Old Wives Tales making the rounds about fillers.  Started the sort of the same, talking about Smokeless powders and light loads.  Primary concern was position sensitive powders in LARGE cartridge cases. 

It was shard by a bunch of very knowledgeable and confirmed by several professional ballisticians, fillers, especially absorbent fillers such as Grits, should never be used in Smokeless reloading.  It has been found, the filler material absorbs the moisture OUT of the Smokeless powder, which turns to the consistency of a brick, actually forms into an obstruction, and sends chamber pressure thru the roof.  Literally THROUGH the roof.  Blowing out chambers.  Blowing up cylinders.  Blowing up barrels.  Bad Joss.

And no.  Fillers with Black Powder are not to keep the powder next to the primer (although that helps), the filler is to prevent AIR SPACE which causes inconsistent ignition and burn which causes premature shot start, which causes Ring Around the Chamber/Barrel, which causes . . . . . .

SO:  In summation.

PLUS ONE TOO Black River Smith.  DO NOT use fillers with Smokeless powders.  EVER.
Fillers are for Black Powder and Subs.  I like Cream-0-Wheat, personally.  Burma Shave.

Stay Safe.  Bunches of People are NOT yer friend.

Offline Slamfire

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Re: Fillers ?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2020, 10:24:30 AM »
 Now ! this is why " I " ask some of the  seemingly odd questions ,, and " yes " I really do read as much as I can find on any subject I wish to pursue ,, I want to hear and talk to those who'v been there ( and still here ,, in one piece ) & done that . "I " Don't know with a certainty that I will use fillers ,, and that ,, " are why I are here ".  I have total respect for every reply , none are taken lightly ( tho some are funny as heck ) , no one here has ever let me down ,, thank you "ALL ". ( Typ'n makes my wittle head hurt ).



 coffee for everyone ,, Hootmix.


 

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