Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => STORM => Topic started by: nativeshootist on July 30, 2017, 11:17:12 PM
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I recently emailed cimarron on an update about their 62 pocket police conversion, they responded by saying that they are getting one in for test and evaluation with the ATF and might soon be shipping them in upcoming months!
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Wow, you were reading my mind :o. I was just wondering yesterday what the progress was on this neat little revolver. Thanks for the update.
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Sweet- I'd just about resigned myself to making my own! Of course I might stilll... ;D
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I emailed Cimarron the other day to ask if they were going to offer other barrel options. The fellow said no other barrels were in the works. He also said the release date was 1st quarter of next year.
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Noooooooo.....wait. i should have the money for it by then. But still
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.380 ACP, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .38 short Colt chamber reamer might work for a more historical cartridge.
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.380 ACP, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .38 short Colt chamber reamer might work for a more historical cartridge.
I wondered about that. Also wondered if there would be enough room for the rims, or are the chambers too close together.
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From an email by Cimarron:
Last year we introduced the ’62 Pocket Navy Conversion. It was to be available in .380ACP with a 3” barrel. After months of waiting, the ATF informed us that we needed to work on the safety mechanism. We quickly responded by working with Uberti to change the safety, and resubmitted the gun for approval. Again, months of waiting… waiting until the ATF responded that the 3” barrel made the gun too light! OK!!! So now we have changed the barrel from 3” to 6” and are now on track to release this highly anticipated revolver! Cimarron's '62 Pocket Navy Conversion authentically reproduces those early, coat pocket-sized cartridge conversion revolvers, produced by the Colt factory from around 1873-1880. Available as a 6-inch round-barreled, ejectorless model, this 21st century fistful of pistol is chambered for the feisty .380ACP cartridge! This handy little, 5-shot revolver utilizes the Uberti patented firing pin safety so we can load all 5 chambers and sports a rich, historically accurate blued finish, with a color case hardened frame, brass trigger guard and back strap, and an attractive, one-piece varnished, walnut stock. Due to the 6 inch barrel we now kiddingly refer to this little gem as the ‘Pocket Buntline’.
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My Uberti percission 1862pocket police is in 4.5 inch barrel. Perfect for Canadian laws.
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Hey, it could happen...
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Here is a picture. I think it might be attacked by hacksaws on a regular bases.
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"It was to be available in .380ACP with a 3” barrel." ??? hmmmmmmmm vacillating :-\
"This handy little, 5-shot revolver utilizes the Uberti patented firing pin safety" ...lost me !
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"It was to be available in .380ACP with a 3” barrel." ??? hmmmmmmmm vacillating :-\
"This handy little, 5-shot revolver utilizes the Uberti patented firing pin safety" ...lost me !
I'd rather have the 5 shots instead of 4 shots and a empty chamber.
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I'd rather have the 5 shots instead of 4 shots and a empty chamber.
It's a range toy, do you really need all 5 cylinders loaded?
My experiences with the new Uberti safety is purely hearsay, so take it with a grain of salt, but I haven't seen anyone who was truly happy with it.
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It's a five shot, I would like to use all 5 cylinders
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well, on the Uberti single actions with the new safety hammer, seems like they work fine until you start trying to shoot them fast, and then a few folks have had problems. I wouldn't let that stop me from buying the little conversion (if I wanted one, which I don't).
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Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/saddle-up-them-ponies-and-visit-cimarron-firearms-at-the-2019-shot-show/#ixzz5dSKbBn8c
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook
The long awaited and highly anticipated 1862 Pocket Navy Conversion will be highlighted. This revolver features all the historic detail of the early version of a revolver EDC, but the Cimarron version will be in today’s most popular and affordable conceal carry caliber, the .380 ACP. This five-shot revolver in a standard color case hardened frame and blued hammer has a 6” barrel and an MSRP of $570.70.
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well, on the Uberti single actions with the new safety hammer, seems like they work fine until you start trying to shoot them fast, and then a few folks have had problems. I wouldn't let that stop me from buying the little conversion (if I wanted one, which I don't).
I was , was I say "on the fence, * I like the gun"....but the hammer does stop me as does the now posted MSRP...
* never considered it as CWC ...but plinker sure, and there 5 would be fine
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Gotta say, I do like the look of it.
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While I would prefer safety notches between the cylinders, thus allowing it to be used in a cowboy action match, other than that it looks like a cool plinker. I load for 380, so I prefer the 380 chambering, and it is a little higher price than I expected.
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Keep in mind that you never have to pay MSRP (unless you buy the gun at Texas Jacks ;) )
I don't think this gun would be main match legal because it is a legal as a pocket pistol. But if it slip-hammers okay (with the new safety hammer, not so sure), it could be very fast for pocket pistol sidematch.
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I realize there are going to be "some" who find this offering from Cimarron to be ..... appealing. I personally find it annoying. With so small a potential customer base, I would find it difficult to think they could amortize the investment to bring it to production.
By the same token, I have absolutely NO idea what it's appeal is going to be in Europe. There, it may actually be a really big deal. I personally don't find it of any use. Not even as a plinker. Much more fun to roll cans with a .44 loaded light (my opine). "Others" may well find it just the ticket. Rather a BIG ticket for such limited use.
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I shot today with Joe from Cimarron and asked him the pocket conversion update. He said the first six came in and the cylinder chambers had been reamed too large, so ammo shot expanded too much and didn't want to eject, so that has to be remedied.
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I emailed Pale Wolf Burnelle, and with a 3 inch barrel, they would be a SASS legal pocket pistol, I don't know anyone who would want that gun in with a six inch barrel....
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The barrel length isnt my preference either but the 380 chambering is what really has me confused. If someone would just make a quality remington deringer clone that shot to the sights we'd really have something to be exited about imho. That would be ideal for side matches.
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I know this is an old thread but did this ever come to fruition?
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I think a first shipment came in a while back and sold. Seem to recall Oklahoma Tom reported getting one somewhere in these pages?
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I got one from Bryan (Okla Tom) at 3B Shooting Supply. We've been working on a project to modify .38 Short Colt brass to operate in the .380 ACP cylinder chamber. Length of the .38SC was cut down to match the .380 case OAL and the .38SC rim was turned down just enough to chamber in the cylinder. Effectively we created a .380 Auto Rim case from .38SC brass. I've had a few successions at the range and used it in a couple of main matches. Still fiddling with getting the point of impact lower. Current mods included replacing the itty-bitty front sight with a Pietta 1851 cone sight and opening up the hammer notch rear sight. It's a fun little shooter and pretty damn sexy with the long 6" barrel. Kind of has Patterson lines. I like it!
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Forgive me for being a newb, but what is the advantage to creating a .380 auto rim case? I really like this little revolver, have you considered shortening the barrel to 3"?
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It looks great with that 6" barrel length.
Too bad the .38sc couldn't be used without modification. It'd be a much simpler solution. My next project is to open up the hammer notch on my Police. Not sure about changing out the front sight post, though.
RCJ
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Why not .38 short colt. Case only .003? different than 380. Load a 90 grain .355 and a grain or two of trail boss, and there you go. If the rims were a little too big, just scallop them on one side to interface with the other rims. I saw someone do that with 44 Russian brass in a .44 Colt ASM. Maybe run the 38 colt brass through a.380 sizing die, then chamfer the cylinder for the slightly oversized base that doesn't go into the die.
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Why not .38 short colt. Case only .003? different than 380. Load a 90 grain .355 and a grain or two of trail boss, and there you go. If the rims were a little too big, just scallop them on one side to interface with the other rims. I saw someone do that with 44 Russian brass in a .44 Colt ASM. Maybe run the 38 colt brass through a.380 sizing die, then chamfer the cylinder for the slightly oversized base that doesn't go into the die.
The .38 Short Colt is longer than .380, if you ream the chambers for the SC, then .380 won't work anymore. But you can just trim the .38 SC to fit, since they're mostly a handload only caliber anyway.
Now if VTI or somebody would just start carrying barrels for it, you could have a whole set, 6", 4", 3" and maybe a "Coffinmaker Special" cut off just in front of the barrel wedge.
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I think .38 S&W would be a better candidate- Brass is Easier to come by.
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Case and rim diameter even larger on the .38 S&W. Just no room in these things for conventional revolver cartridges. Good marketing demands you chamber something folks can buy off the shelf and shoot as is, even most handloaders don't like modifying cases. Folks like us are "special". That and .380 is a hot Self Defense round right now, which possibly expands sales appeal to other than the Cowboy niche.
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Good points. I think on reflection, being that kind of special, a good choice to shorten for this might be .38 Special.
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And that would be .38 Short Colt! RIght back were we started. ;D
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If one really wants a rimmed cartridge for this, Cimarron needs to chamber it in .32 H&R. THen you could shoot all manner of .32s in it.
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.380 ACP isn't on the Approved Cartridge List for NCOWS match shooting. Turning the .38SC rim is just a chuck-up in the drill press and a couple of swipes with a mill bastard file. Case trimming is most likely rocket science to those that don't reload but it too is no big deal. But then complaining about new ropes has been around for a very, very long time.
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:P Well, Shiver me timbers. Back when this Wundergun was first announced, the whole world was drooling and slobbering wanting to get one. Then, there was the teeth gnashing whining because it was taking so long to materialize. Now that it's here, the general consensus seems to be the 380 is the "wrong" cartridge so let's make it something else and make the Mongrel into a Frankenpistol.
So how 'bout I gen up a pattern marked with a dotted line and "cut here" instructions. Might also be tempted to have a hardened guide clamp for a hacksaw made to keep the cut square and rent it out soz that ugly extra 3 inches of barrel can be removed with a square face. Since nobody can decide what cartridge it should really be, I' ll just have to wait before cook up a jig to turn cases in quantity.
Or, perhaps we should come to the conclusion, the final product is of no real use other than as an oddity. Really 'pensive paper weight. And, since we have progressed to a more or less paperless society, not much call for it there either. Not that I'm opinionated. Nah. Not real opinionated. Not me (Snicker Snicker Snort).
Oh wait. Bestest idea yet. Before you order one, send the check for the purchase price to ME. That way, at least one of us will be happy with yer espenditure ::)
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Ah My Good Coffin
don't hold back, pray tell, what do you really think?
Personally I think it's kinda cute, and .380 will take DIY .38 short colt so nicely....
Mrs Marvel kinda wants one....
yhs
prof mumbles
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I still want one of these. And .380 makes its it easier and less expensive to buy ammo for
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Does anyone actually have one for sale? Cimarron is sold out and the there's a waiting list for new arrivals from Uberti.
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Here's your cut-down version. I trimmed the barrel to 3 1/2". Visual looked better to me. Foreground are the .38SC reworked to fit the .380 chambers. The only .380 RNL ammo that I know of is made by MagTech. I've reloaded the 100 modified .38 Short Colt cases 4 times now. 400 rounds and still haven't met the cost of 1 MagTech box of 50. Still tinkering with a good grouping load to as close to point of aim as possible. The rounds in the pic carry 8.5grs. 3Fg with a .356 sized round balls. Next sunny day I will do some range time.
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Now that's what I want! I don't shoot competitively so the caliber isn't a concern. Did you trim the barrel yourself?
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Yes. Cut-off pneumatic tool with abrasive disc to start. Belt sander and machinist square to finish. Probably will take a trip to my favorite gunsmith to crown face and relieve the muzzle. Gonna shoot it first; gotta shoot it! Reason for my 3 1/2" barrel trim was leather on my holster rack. No need to buy fresh leather.
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Johnson Barr,
You can pick up a round de-burring tool from Brownells that will clean up the muzzle nicely. Originally, the barrels were just square faced. No real crown. Bit of a relief at the end of the bore just as you would get with a few turns of the de-burring tool.
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Is the original front sight removable for reuse or do I need to source a new sight?
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No, Uberti's 'itty-bitty' original sight is serious a press fit. I try to pull it with no luck. Nipped it off and flushed the cut with a small file. The flatten brass stub took a center punch very well for the new drill bore to match the base of the Pietta 1851 Navy cone front sight that I pressed in place on the 6" barrel. The 'itty-bitty' sight is the same Uberti uses on the '48-'49 pockets. VTI has them for $4.50 plus shipping.
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Damn fine job! It looks the business. Well done!
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I'm convinced I "need" one but I can't find any available for sale. Anybody got a source?
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I'm convinced I "need" one but I can't find any available for sale. Anybody got a source?
There weren't that many in the first shipment. Have your favorite dealer call Cimarron and get on the backorder list. When they come in and it gets to your turn, they will call to see if you still want it.
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I understand there is no loading gate: what keeps the cartridges from falling out if you tip the muzzle up? Were any of the original cartridge conversions made without a loading gate? I still want one.
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Almost all of the Colt small frame conversions had no loading gates. Many of the private, long cylinder conversions (both large and small frame). lacked them also. The majority of Remington cartridge conversion also lacked loading gates.
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When the gun is hammer cocked or hammer down, the rim of the cartridge is slightly out of line with the loading channel and won't fall out. It only lines up on half cock. Don't aim up when you cock the gun. ;)
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Thanks Abilene; that eliminates my one concern for a new toy. Now, to just find one.
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Still waiting, anyone know if a new shipment has arrived?
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Years ago, I had an original pocket Police conversion in .38 Short Colt. I cut some .38 special cases and loaded round balls. NO accuracy! Sold it to a guy in Germany or Austria. He had an importer lined up and I shipped to them.
You definitely had to NOT point up when you cock! LOL.
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Twould seem, The ruling Junta at SASS has declared the little "Gem" unacceptable as a Main Match item (sub the caliber requirement), unacceptable as a Pocket pistol (doesn't fit inna pocket), Unacceptable in BP Kata Gory's (not enough BP smoke), unacceptable for Classic anything (no cartridge rim), unacceptable as a Xmas Ornament (too heavy for the tree). Therefore, it will probably have a very short production run.
Although, there is the remote possibility the little sucker will do well across the pond. I don't have a real good WAG as to "why" it might do well "over there" but an anemic cartridge, in the wrong size gun needed a market somewhere for Uberti to make the thing. Maybe?? Or just a whim??
Again, I'm not necessarily opinionated (yes I am), however I don't actually see a reason for it to exist other than as a Oddity (some describe me as an oddity after all).
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Lets not forget uberti/stoger is in fact marketing the 3.5'' version and its up on the website now. This was the one we were all on board with originally. If they make it to the big box stores i think they'd sell a bunch. Ive seen people at the counter say ''im buying a gun today, just dont know which one yet lol''. I can easily see nostalgic old times with disposable income picking one up with dog walking or glove/tackle box duty in mind. Hell look at the mares leg or pistol grip 87s frivolous guns are hardly bad business today.
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Lets not forget uberti/stoger is in fact marketing the 3.5'' version and its up on the website now. This was the one we were all on board with originally. If they make it to the big box stores i think they'd sell a bunch. Ive seen people at the counter say ''im buying a gun today, just dont know which one yet lol''. I can easily see nostalgic old times with disposable income picking one up with dog walking or glove/tackle box duty in mind. Hell look at the mares leg or pistol grip 87s frivolous guns are hardly bad business today.
That's good news but I can't find it on the Uberti website. Got a link?
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https://www.ubertireplicas.com/product/1862-police-conversion/
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Your right dave thats not uberti usa my mistake.
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https://youtu.be/3ImZONtKsag
Here's a video about the pistol. It has a spring on the arbor, kinda interesting
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Apparently the 2nd shipment of these little beauties have arrived. They're available at Buds, the Gallery of Guns and Gunbroker. I ordered one from Bunbroker (slightly cheaper) about $527 delivered.
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The issues pointed out in the video were present on my 1st shipment pistol. I stripped the the firing group out of the frame and re-staked the arbor locking pin in the hammer channel with a center punch and shop hammer to remove the arbor 'wiggle'. The arbor 'spring' was solved by discarding the spring and then drill the end of the arbor and tapping the hole for a 1/4" long 4-40 cap head screw. The cap head screw was shorten to get the proper arbor length, barrel pins and frame fitting. Mr. Pettifogger's excellent 'Open Top Fitting' articles will guide you through the fitting process. I've eliminated all the wiggles and fit the wedge for thumb pressure seating and take down. I've found that dis-mounting the barrel to reload the cylinder with my modified .38 Short Colt brass loads easier than using my fat thumbs to use the loading port.
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After months of procrastinating, I finally chopped the barrel on mine and fitted a new slightly taller front sight. Boy, this little sucker is hard to cock. Any spring kits available for this model to ease the wear and tear on my little "girly" hands?
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If anybody wants something a little blingier, I noticed Cimarron had one nickled gun in stock.
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Abilene: Got a link? I can't find it on their website.
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Ammodave, I am privy to the inventory list that they send to select dealers. :)
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Is just the grip frame nickel or the whole pistol? Got a pic?
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The whole gun. No picture - it was listed in the Excel file inventory list. The model number is CA057N00, with the N00 denoting nickled.
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Thanks, I was considering nickel plating just the brass grip frame.
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That should be pretty easy and would look good.
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If anybody wants something a little blingier, I noticed Cimarron had one nickled gun in stock.
I sent a request to Sales for that nickel gun if still available. I have not heard back, I expect to tomorrow.
I reamed the cylinder of one of my 62 conversions to allow the longer 38 Short Colt. One needs to ream it with a 38 Long Colt reamer to get the length without having the reader shoulder impacting the ratchet. Also, the rim diameter of 38 Short Colt needs to be turned down to .410 to clear the ratchet. There is not enough meat between the ratchet teeth to ream for the full diameter 38 Colt rim. I run my lead bullets through a .356 sizer prior to loading them. It shoots well.
I wrote a review/range test article for the NCOWS magazine ?The Shootist? comparing the use of the factory 380 ACP and 38 Short Colt performance. It was in the latest issue, if you are an NCOWS member.
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I have a question for anyone who owns one of these or at least has access to one. Has Uberti changed the dimensions of this revolver compared to the C&B version? When they first converted the belt models to 45 they had dimension caused issues and needed to ?bulk up? the frames and barrel. Totally messed with the feel and balance. And, since one size fits all is cheaper to produce, the C&B revolvers suffered the same fate.
If you don?t have a new and an old one to compare, I can post dimensions if someone is willing to measure and post what the current sizes are.
Kevin
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Strawhat, when Uberti started making conversion revolvers, they did increase the size slightly so they could chamber .44 Spcl and .45 Schofield rims. This was also done so bores would not line up between cartridge and percussion guns, to prevent putting the softer steel percussion barrels on conversions.
But they did not increase the size of their C&B guns.
As for the little .380, I do not know.
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I only have the conversion. What dimensions are you looking for?
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For starters, let’s go with frame width at front and rear of cylinder, cylinder diameter, and barrel width over the wedge.
Thank you.
How do the little bugger shoot for you?
Kevin
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Frame width in front of the cylinder is .656", rear of cylinder is .762", cylinder diameter is 1.318", barrel width over the wedge is .659". Unfortunately, I haven't shot it yet. I was dragging my feet until I got the barrel shortened and then the shelter in place protocol started. Any idea how to reduce the cocking effort?
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... Any idea how to reduce the cocking effort?
I don't think there are any spring kits available for the pocket pistols. The main spring can be ground thinner, but the easiest and quickest thing you can do is add a washer under the main spring. It won't be a big difference, but should be noticeable.
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I got some neoprene or rubber spring spacers that worked in SAAs. You can get some here. (https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/hammer-parts/hammer-spacers/colt-single-action-hammer-spring-spacer-prod339.aspx) Then you set the tension with the screw that holds the spring to the grip frame.
(https://cdn-us-ec.yottaa.net/53ff2f503c881650e20004c9/www.brownells.com/v~4b.10c/userdocs/products/p_078025002_3.jpg?yocs=p_)
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Thanks Marshall, I'll make some spacers and give them a try.
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I got some neoprene or rubber spring spacers that worked in SAAs. You can get some here. (https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/hammer-parts/hammer-spacers/colt-single-action-hammer-spring-spacer-prod339.aspx) Then you set the tension with the screw that holds the spring to the grip frame.
(https://cdn-us-ec.yottaa.net/53ff2f503c881650e20004c9/www.brownells.com/v~4b.10c/userdocs/products/p_078025002_3.jpg?yocs=p_)
Skeeter Skelton and George Nonte recommended a piece of holster leather...
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Skeeter Skelton and George Nonte recommended a piece of holster leather...
I've had both and prefer the neoprene or whatever it is.
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I made one using a scrap of soft plastic about .06" thick and it lightened the hammer draw noticeably. I'll have to shoot it after the "house arrest" is over to insure I still have reliable ignition. Thanks for the tip.
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Once when the hammer spring on one of my Pietta 1860 Armys broke the evening before a match, I discovered that the spring from my Uberti '62 Pocket Police fit and functioned just fine. So I suppose if you coule find a lightened spring for a Pietta '60, it should work in your '62. At least it's worth a try.
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Frame width in front of the cylinder is .656", rear of cylinder is .762", cylinder diameter is 1.318", barrel width over the wedge is .659". Unfortunately, I haven't shot it yet. I was dragging my feet until I got the barrel shortened and then the shelter in place protocol started. Any idea how to reduce the cocking effort?
I have not forgotten this thread and I appreciate your reply.
Your numbers are, to me, surprisingly close to my own revolvers. I have 8 Pocket Police and two Pocket Navies. Rather than cherry pick for favoring results i have averaged the results.
Rear of frame. .748. Yours is .762
Front of frame. .659. Yours is .656
Barrel at wedge .652. Yours is .659
So, considering the variation in my revolvers your numbers fit right in. I had thought they beefed the frame to accommodate the cylinder conversion, not so. I may have to buy one to see for myself.
Kevin
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I have not forgotten this thread and I appreciate your reply.
Your numbers are, to me, surprisingly close to my own revolvers. I have 8 Pocket Police and two Pocket Navies. Rather than cherry pick for favoring results i have averaged the results.
Rear of frame. .748. Yours is .762
Front of frame. .659. Yours is .656
Barrel at wedge .652. Yours is .659
So, considering the variation in my revolvers your numbers fit right in. I had thought they beefed the frame to accommodate the cylinder conversion, not so. I may have to buy one to see for myself.
Kevin
I do not think you will be disappointed, Kevin.
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I measured and weighed an original Colt Pocket Navy in .38 CF and the Uberti Pocket Navy .380 ACP, both have round 3,5" barrels.
99,9% identical measurements incl. the weight.
Regarding sales in Germany of the little sucker since the importer received the first shipment in early 2019: three specimens only!
As a 5-shooter it is not legal as a main match pistol in CAS matches over here as opposed to the SASS rules.
On the other hand we have practically no side matches for pocket pistols.
Long Johns Wolf
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Will the 1862 Pocket Police barrel fit the .380 Conversion frame?
If so, one could electroplate the interior of the barrel with about a 0.007" layer of chrome to accomodate the .380 bullet diameter.