Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Shotguns => Topic started by: Reverend P. Babcock Chase on February 17, 2023, 02:38:26 PM
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Howdy Shotgunners,
Is it just me because I occasionally shoot mine and am now trying roll crimping to get it to run better? It seems to me that there is more interest in these recalcitrant shotguns. More discussion about them and more about roll crimping.
I'm wondering,
Rev. Chase
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Funny. I was actually thinking about selling my '87 or my '97 and going back to a SxS. :)
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:) Reverend (and RRio) ;)
I am aware, my reply has no bearing on the question. Well, almost no bearing. It (the reply) also provides no answer. But, it's Friday evening and I'm still stuck at home in recovery and bored.
Whence I was actively in pursuit of the Brass Rings, I also joined the rest of the "Go Fast" club and shot the '97. The Chambers had to be recut for modern 2 3/4 hulls and the forcing cone lengthened to reduce Felt Recoil. In hind sight, I would have been better served to shorten a pile of plastic hulls and gone to roll crimping.
The '97 and the '87 were designed to digest 2 1/2 in hulls with a roll crimp and those hulls do feed better. Lots of current "Go Fast" folks have gradated to the modified '87 with the infamous "Drop Two" mod for Speed.
My personal Opine, for the game we play, the Side by Side is the only real gamer gun. And that Side by Side should also sport exposed Hammers. Mule Ears if you will. Hammer doubles are the true "Cowboy" shotguns. Due to unforeseen circumstance, that took me out of the "Go Fast" club, I went to The Dark side, went to Hammer doubles, and shoot All Brass hulls. Seriously "Cowboy." SO:
My council is to dump those Train Wreck Producers and shoot true cowboy guns. My Opine only of course. But iffin you ain't in the 15 to 30ish age group, shooting 14 second stages, you may as well get some really cool Style Points and shoot a Hammer Double. All Brass hulls help a lot too. That's my Opine and I'm sticking to it. Burma Shave
People ARE Hazardous to Yer Health you betcha
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Howdy Coffin,
I agree with you frequently; however, I (and I believe many others) feel that the '87 generates the most style points. Especially because it doesn't generate any "speed points". In fact is all but eliminates any "speed points". I will admit the hammer double comes in a close second and, you are right, it is the quintessential cowboy shotgun.
Hammer doubles are my primary shotguns as I shoot Classic (emphasis on sick) Cowboy. The '87 is the only other shotgun that we can use. I got mine on a really good deal and have made it a project to try and use effectively as an exercise to keep myself humble.
All that being said, I'm long past the "15 to 30ish group" by decades and can only shoot a 14 second stage if I'm the one doing the scoring. So hammer double or '87 style points are all I can expect, but I do look good and have fun.
Remember "a great outfit is remembered long after a lackluster shooting performance is forgotten".
Rev. Chase
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:) Reverend ;)
I must agree we are on basically the same page. Almost. The "Go Fast" '87 guys and gals, whom have invested in the appropriate action work and the fabled "Drop Two" mod are able to demonstrate some real speed. Doesn't change the fact, an '87 just ain't a Hammer Double. SO:
I am a firm believer, it matters NOT how well or fast you shoot, so long as you look REALLY REALLY good doing it. It's a GAME and STYLE matters you betcha!!
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:) Reverend (and RRio) ;)
I am aware, my reply has no bearing on the question. Well, almost no bearing. It (the reply) also provides no answer. But, it's Friday evening and I'm still stuck at home in recovery and bored.
Whence I was actively in pursuit of the Brass Rings, I also joined the rest of the "Go Fast" club and shot the '97. The Chambers had to be recut for modern 2 3/4 hulls and the forcing cone lengthened to reduce Felt Recoil. In hind sight, I would have been better served to shorten a pile of plastic hulls and gone to roll crimping.
The '97 and the '87 were designed to digest 2 1/2 in hulls with a roll crimp and those hulls do feed better. Lots of current "Go Fast" folks have gradated to the modified '87 with the infamous "Drop Two" mod for Speed.
My personal Opine, for the game we play, the Side by Side is the only real gamer gun. And that Side by Side should also sport exposed Hammers. Mule Ears if you will. Hammer doubles are the true "Cowboy" shotguns. Due to unforeseen circumstance, that took me out of the "Go Fast" club, I went to The Dark side, went to Hammer doubles, and shoot All Brass hulls. Seriously "Cowboy." SO:
My council is to dump those Train Wreck Producers and shoot true cowboy guns. My Opine only of course. But iffin you ain't in the 15 to 30ish age group, shooting 14 second stages, you may as well get some really cool Style Points and shoot a Hammer Double. All Brass hulls help a lot too. That's my Opine and I'm sticking to it. Burma Shave
People ARE Hazardous to Yer Health you betcha
Yeah,... ...just keep talking me into going back to SxS. :D
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No.
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I have always loved the 87s but I am not fast with it. I have an original 87, original 1901, Norinco Lasiter drop two. I love each of them.
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:) Ha ha ;)
Iffin you haven't witnessed it, the absolute bestest, most hilarious, most fun to watch Train Wrecks are staged with '87s and '97. Cartridge seeding at its finest you betcha!!
Yep, and People are STILL hazardous to yer Health
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Well, I reluctantly bought a 87 norinco after sass outlawed my beloved Marlin Model24. Yuck, Rube Goldberg was a consulting engineer I think. I tried my wife's Stoeger coach gun which was ok but I finally bought a mismatched 97 which became my main sass sg. But as my club is a WASA/SASS club I most often run my M24 though I have used my minty Marlin Model 30 20gauge. The thing shoots like a rifle. I love when we shoot WB as I can use my Model 12s.
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I do want to get one one day, just to play with, but it is low on my list. I remember Cimarron announcing that they were bringing a new chinese 1887 to market a couple of years ago, I guess plans have changed ???
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I do want to get one one day, just to play with, but it is low on my list. I remember Cimarron announcing that they were bringing a new chinese 1887 to market a couple of years ago, I guess plans have changed ???
I ran into Mike Harvey in a Fredericksburg Walmart a couple months ago and he updated me on some stuff. They sent all the '87's they had received back to China as they needed too much work. But they are still working on getting more. He said they were supposed to be made on all new equipment. It would be the end of the year at the soonest.
I've really never had any desire for an '87. Of course, I never had a desire for a '97 either since it wasn't "old west" to me, but had to get one for Wild Bunch, and after shooting it some found out it was fun (especially slam firing). So now I have 3 and that's what I use the most when shooting smokeless. :)
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Got the case trimmer cards fiber wads and roll crimp thingmabob for 12 gauge then mercury went north of 100 then north of 105 30 June was 110 or higher as was whole month of July minus the 31st which was 104. South wall of garage gets a lot of sun. May start trying to load in October. Phoenix Area summers are not for sissies
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There is renewed interest in 87's after Cimarron's recent release.
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As of 2024 the Wild Bunch rules have changed to also allow all main-match shotguns.
(Side-by-sides with or without exposed hammers, lever-action shotguns, pump-action 1897s and 1912s.)
The 1887 has now become the "Do-it-all" shotgun that is allowed in all categories and side-matches.
For my own "pre-WBTS Injun-fightin' ranger-impression" I should have stuck with a percussion or pin-fire side-by-side.....but the 1887 is just too cool and too fun to shoot to be left at home.
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I am really considering addin an 87 to the herd just for WB since I wouldn't run it for regular CAS.
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In order to counter the view held by some that the '87 is not "cowboy", I'd like to direct y'alls attention to page 210 of "The Expressmen". (Time-Life Books, The Old West).
It depicts a Wells Fargo express wagon rolling out of the Homestake Mine, South Dakota in 1890.
Two of the four express messengers on the wagon hold 1887 shotguns at the ready.
That is cowboy enough for me.
(Now, with a bit of luck the undersigned might even be able to post a copy of said photo, for y'alls viewing pleasure...?)
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:) Reverend ;)
I must agree we are on basically the same page. Almost. The "Go Fast" '87 guys and gals, whom have invested in the appropriate action work and the fabled "Drop Two" mod are able to demonstrate some real speed. Doesn't change the fact, an '87 just ain't a Hammer Double. SO:
I am a firm believer, it matters NOT how well or fast you shoot, so long as you look REALLY REALLY good doing it. It's a GAME and STYLE matters you betcha!!
Where I shoot, we can load 87's to the max the way they were supposed to be shot. The same with 97's. No penalty for not shooting a SxS.
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RRio
That sounds great! I never understood not allowing magazine shotguns to be fully loaded. If the dbl. barrel guys feel handicapped by that they can always switch to one themselves.
Macon Due 29445
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Howdy Again Fellers,
Regarding a full mag on an '87 (or '97) vs SXS, I shoot both I do have a '97 for Wild Bunch only). I don't know whether I shoot one quicker although I believe that, due to the occasional '87 train wreck, I'm better off with the SXS. Oh yeah, to the point, I don't see why guys who's shotguns have magazine shouldn't be allowed to use a full mag if they want, as long as they start the stage with and open and empty gun.
Rev. Chase
ps. I'm not sure but I think that is allowed.
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SASS default is to load no more than 2, but many clubs including most around here, state "87's and 97's may be stoked on the clock" in the stage instructions.
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1887's were certainly having their moment in the Arizona territory back in the days of yore...
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One more Arizonan: