Author Topic: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.  (Read 752 times)

Offline llanerosolitario

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Finally some links about “the monster”...a 44 mg of the era: the unknown and ignored 13,9 mm Austrian Joseph Scheinigg revolver...( it reads  “13mm”  wrongly in first link)


https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/l/21020/perkussionsrevolver_scheinigg_13_mm_frei_ab_18?aid=40&Lstatus=0&ord=date_d&currentpos=22

https://www.dorotheum.com/en/l/1691209/#


https://www.gunauction.com/buy/14520655


https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/hermann-historica-ohg/catalogue-id-srher10002/lot-4a342236-cbf3-42ef-a2bc-a46e00017a91


Far more powerful, compact and advanced than the Walker, I hope firearms historians will finally give this fine revolver  the attention it deserves.

Offline LonesomePigeon

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2021, 01:35:32 PM »
Is it really more powerful? It shoots a .55 caliber ball but how much powder does it hold? It also has a shorter barrel than a Walker.

A Walker shoots a .44 caliber ball, holds 60 grains of powder and it has a 9 inch barrel.

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2021, 07:13:53 AM »
This one hold also 60 grains of powder, with a huge caliber. In BP the caliber plays a more importanr role in energy than the amount of powder.

The Walker was “the most powerful” revolver for a short time, until de 1855’s...when the British and the austrians developed their large caliber, 50”, 54”, and 560” revolvers based on the Adams Beaumont design.

In reality, not even that is truth, as the  british Baker transitional revolver, from 1852, in the huge  577 “ caliber, and several other transitional revolvers, were more powerful than the Walker. Some models were gas sealed.


Offline Dave T

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2021, 12:32:12 PM »
If that revolver is truly as powerful as you claim, it's poor grip design would make it painful to shoot, or at the least difficult to control for follow up shots.

You seem to like it, and more power to you.  Don't tell me I have to like it as well.

Dave

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2021, 07:35:26 AM »
Have you tried the  Adams revolver grip? They are far more comfortable than Colts or Remington’s.


I had the oportunity if shooting an original Adams revolver..a far more advanced revolver than any american design except maybe the Roger and Spencer revolver. More comfortable design and more equlibrate as a revolver.

The Walker is primitive, and it is not equilibrate, the Austrian revolver is years ligth ahead, and it is only 9 years older.

We can say that the austrian revolver, probably in its time, more popular than the Walker, was just that...austrian, and not american, so no one wrote much about it,,

..its role in the Far West and the indian wars was zero.. thougth during the Civil War the Confederacy bougth austrian guns), but,,,the truth is the truth, the Walker was not the most powerful revolver of the BP era, even less until the 357 magnum appeared as some “experts” said, on both sides of the Ocean..


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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2021, 09:40:04 AM »

 But the question begs, at this point in time, WHO CARES ??  With no historical significance, what it was, or did, is immaterial. 

Unless you just want to start an argument ??

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2021, 11:49:35 AM »
It had historical significance..but in Central Europe, not in USA...and technically is significative, a really huge superpowerfull wheelgun in one the most advanced configurations of its time.

Offline Major 2

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2021, 02:34:03 PM »
It's a handsome piece,  some 14-15 years later in development to the 1847 Walker design....

when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Smokey Dave

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2021, 03:08:53 PM »
No matter how awesome it is purported to be, it's just plain fugly.
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet."
-Abe Lincoln

Offline Major 2

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2021, 04:06:04 PM »
I Like it  .... tain't ugly to me
when planets align...do the deal !

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2021, 04:42:06 PM »

 :)  Well . . .

I find it rather an interesting piece of kit as well as a nifty looking handgun.  I would hope the internal lock works more robust than early US guns (fragile).

I would not get wrapped around the axil that it's caliber rendered it the 44 Magnum of the era.  There are several mitigating factors involved.  Caliber, Weight of Shot, Velocity of the projectile all play an important role.

While I don't doubt it would pack a punch, to rate it as grater or lesser would be very difficult without modern scientific examination.  Personally, I'd rather NOT be shot with either one.

Play Safe Out There

PS:  You do occasionally present some interesting stuff.  However your methodology of deliberately trying to establish superiority of one over another, reduces your presence to that of a TROLL.  THAT is extremely annoying.

Offline wildman1

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2021, 06:56:29 AM »
Denigrating something to make what you are trying to build up is never an appealing tactic.
wM1
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.

Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2021, 01:18:28 PM »
:)  Well . . .

I find it rather an interesting piece of kit as well as a nifty looking handgun.  I would hope the internal lock works more robust than early US guns (fragile).

I would not get wrapped around the axil that it's caliber rendered it the 44 Magnum of the era.  There are several mitigating factors involved.  Caliber, Weight of Shot, Velocity of the projectile all play an important role.

While I don't doubt it would pack a punch, to rate it as grater or lesser would be very difficult without modern scientific examination.  Personally, I'd rather NOT be shot with either one.

Play Safe Out There

PS:  You do occasionally present some interesting stuff.  However your methodology of deliberately trying to establish superiority of one over another, reduces your presence to that of a TROLL.  THAT is extremely annoying.

Annoying only if you take it personally. I dont. I am just a myth buster.

In my home region they cook a local “delicatessen” called “fabada”, which consist, mainly, of pork and beans....the taste  is horrible and it is overcaloric...they really get annoyed when I tell them that a good american burger is  healthier, and a lot tastier. Or a simple pizza. They just “camt believe” what I say.

Why? Not only because it is “their cuisine”, but because their belief has become a religion. And religion admits no discussion.

The Walker is “the most powerfurl revolver ever until the 357 appeared om the scene”....why? Because it is american, and some american experts said that. Ok. I am not american. I dont have to buy that.

An unknown ( in the USA) austrian revolver was more powerful, and we are not even sure if it really was, or not, the most powerful revolver of its time, as other british “gas sealed” revolvers were even larger in caliber, what is what makes BP guns powerful, more than velocity.

Offline Blair

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2021, 03:16:43 PM »
Coffinmaker,
 
Plus one for you and your reply!

 I own, like and have shot many European firearms that I own within my collection, revolvers most of all.
I like all the "do-dads" they have on them to make them more user friendly. Some of these revolvers (mostly English made) can be in rather large caliber.
While the revolver in question was no doubt made in Austria, it is however a copy of an English Addams revolver and not of Austrian design. Did Austria act with the Okay of the Addams Company?
 At this point, I really don't much care. Due to the fact that the OP  seems to be more interested in trying to create an argument than a discussion.
My "not so" best to this poster,
 Bair
A Time for Prayer.
"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things right,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted"
by Rudyard Kipling.
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Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2021, 09:49:48 AM »
Joseph Scheinigg was a famous manufacturer in its time, which also made  versions  of the  Adams revolver in “normal” 44 calibre, like its austrian officers 1860 revolver.

I ignore if he paid royalties. Other manufacturers of Adams type revolvers, , like Francotte, in Belgium, paid royalties to the Adams company.



Offline Blair

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2021, 02:55:59 PM »
Not only did you ignore issues of royalties with the Adams Co. but with Colt and Smith & Wesson, among others, for their royalties and patents by various Arms Making European Countries.  All while using bad quality materials and very poor workmanship.
You Sir, truly are looking to create an argument over arms used in Europe and those used here in the State and how "WE" may view them... compared to those made in Europe that "WE", for the most part, never saw!

I like your posts about firearms from Europe. Many of these, most of us have never seen. I think that would be a much better approach.
With that, I leave you.
 Blair
A Time for Prayer.
"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things right,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted"
by Rudyard Kipling.
Blair Taylor
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Offline llanerosolitario

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Re: Joseph Scheinigg of Austria 1860 revolver....the 44 mg of the era.
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2021, 06:53:56 PM »
I dont ignore royalties, I just donk know if Scheinigg paid them.

Colt didnt have issues with “countries” but with manufacturers, like it was the case of belgian companies making unathorized clones of his revolvers. At that time, a patent in one european country had no recognition in the rest.

In Spain, for example, Adams and co didnt apply for a patent, so the national armories  in Trubia and Oviedo, had no problem making copies of their revolvers for the army, without paying them a single pound sterling.

My goal is to put and end to a false myth, the Walker as the most powerful revolver, not to start a false dilemma between american versus european arms. ..having in mind, that except for Adams, Tranter,  C. Reeves, Kherr, Parker, Beatty, Webley, etc, all of them british, and their continental clones, the europeans, with a few minoritarian exceptions, were not making revolvers that could rival Colt’s.

It is also truth that american authors have supplied partial information, many times biased, and in many cases confusing about revolvers well documented in other languages but in english.

As an example, in the “Colt Brevette Revolvers” book, by Marcon and Paxton, we can find several revolvers, Colt SAA clones, that the authors were not able to identify,  when in fact, they are basque, with legends clearly written in basque, with clear trademarks by Orbea, biggest basque company of the time, of a type of Colt SAA clone patented in Spain ( revolver “Colt Reformado”), which the authos ignored, and about which there is plenty of info avaiable..but in spanish! ( which means that it just dont exists).

So.,,if some prefer to remain in ignorance, it is ok. There were more guns out there than the ones made today by the industry or made famous by the american specialists.


 

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