Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => BROW => Topic started by: PJ Hardtack on July 13, 2019, 11:16:34 AM
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People regard the 45-70 as a pretty skookum load for game and target use. But - the same amount of lead and powder in a 50-70 gets a sneer.
Two 400+lb black bears have fallen to my 50-70 Military Rifle with a BP load, both taken at 100 yds using a tree rest and rail fence as rests respectively. A 45-70 would not have done the job any more effectively.
Load was the Lyman 515141/450 over 65 grs FFG. Recoil is quite manageable even from my Shiloh 50-70 carbine. A similar load in a 45-70 with a Lyman 457193/420 generates more recoil than a 50-70 in most rifles.
I've watched guys with Marlin "Guide Guns" beat the snot out of themselves with loads that generate a lot of buck & roar because they think a 45-70 is a sub-.458 Win Mag and load accordingly.
Net result is another Marlin "Guide Gun" for sale.
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Oh, anything under 200 yards, the .50 is a better round, IMHO. No BP round is easier to load. Too bad the Franco Prussian war made everyone think warfare was going to be 900 yard volley fire . . .
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Long range target shooting and game hunting has become all the rage.
I watch the guys (mostly "hunters") shoot their LR rifles from the bench using lead sleds and other cradles where all they have to do is trip the trigger.
If you ask them if they are going to shoot from any field positions, they give you a blank look .... ???
We used to host a "Hunting Rifle" match where you had to shoot your hunting loads at 50-100-150-200 metres. 50-100 was off hand, 150-200 free style. The scores were dismal and the match fell into disuse.
Bottom line: MOST "hunters" need to confine themselves to well under 200 yds for an ethical shot. The 45-70 and 50-70 can certainly do this in the hands of a practiced rifleman.
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Several sages have remarked that the 50-70 was the most common rifle cartridge in the years between 1865 -1880 and that more buffalo, more indians, and more white people were shot with it on the frontier than any other round. I sure don't disagree! Love my sporter!
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To me, the old .50 Gov't is the 7x57 of the Black powder era. It'll do everything that needs doing. You may want more, but you don't need more.
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Years ago at the NCOWS National shoot buffalo shoot Steve Witt won it with an original 50-70 trapdoor shooting against guys reproduction Sharps shooters. I believe it was a target model.
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I'm too busted up and disabled to make use of one but my dream single shot rifle would be a No.1 Rolling Block Sporting rifle in 50-70.
Getting old stinks guys.
Dave
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I once spoke to Dave Higginbottom(?), the late proprietor of "Lonestar Rolling Blocks" about the purchase of a rifle. He asked what I wanted it for and I said for hunting and for CAS. He then said - "Then there's only one calibre to consider - 50-70."
I asked why and he gave me the reasons I mention in my original post on the topic. Then he died from an unfortunate gun accident and I ended up ordering a Shiloh carbine instead. On their recommendation I ordered it with a 24" barrel as opposed to the usual 22". That proved a wise choice.
I also have a Shiloh Military Rifle in 50-70 so I'm well armed indeed. That was my favourite hunting rifle for years as it has sling swivels. It took me two large black bears and a 6 pt Mule Deer.
I'd still like a RB in 50-70 as I like the simplicity of the action. I do have a RB in .43 Spanish that I "sporterized" by having the barrel cut to 30" and shaping the forestock to resemble a Trapdoor carbine. I though about having it rebarreled to 50-70, but it shoots so darn well I can't justify it.
"If'n it ain't broke - don't fix it." ::)
As for gittin' old, tell me about it .... it ain't fer wimps, that's fer sure.
A bone scan just told me that I have a deterioration of my lower spine that causes leg problems. And my PSA level has dramatically risen indication that the "Big C" has likely metastasized after nearly nine years of remission.
Every day is a bonus and a gift to be enjoyed.
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A sharps carbine in 50-70 would be king in BP hunting around here. Only thing big around here is elk and buffalo and parks and rec watch em closely. But tags are easily available and a 50-70 would be awesome for a buffalo hunt.
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Regarding the military Sharps .50-70 conversions, my buddy and I both have one. Both feature the lined barrel. Not particularly accurate and not remotely point-of-aim.
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That's their reputation. Gotta wonder how the Texas rangers made out with theirs.
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My 45 tells the same tale. If i held at a horses feet 100 yards i might could nick the hat of the rider on the horse next it it ;D ;D ;D
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PJ's home club hosts their annual CAS event known affectionately as "Run Amok". One of their side matches is an offhand big bore buffalo rifle event at 100 meters, shooting at a 28 oz tomato can filled with water. PJ usually wins it with his 50-70 carbine...not a man or rifle to be trifled with.
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"People regard the 45-70 as a pretty skookum load for game and target use. But - the same amount of lead and powder in a 50-70 gets a sneer."
::)
My guess is that it's because the same amount of lead and powder in a 50-70 is more pleasant to shoot.
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A sharps carbine in 50-70 would be king in BP hunting around here. Only thing big around here is elk and buffalo and parks and rec watch em closely. But tags are easily available and a 50-70 would be awesome for a buffalo hunt.
I have an original Sharps Carbine in .50-70 that was apparently used by a civilian teamster hired by the Army. I would love to take a buffalo with it, but most of the places that offer that type of hunting (generally to cull their herds) want an arm and a leg in cost.
Whereabouts do you have old "Grandfater Pte" or "tetanka" (Lakota for buffalo?) and how much do they charge?
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A sharps carbine in 50-70 would be king in BP hunting around here. Only thing big around here is elk and buffalo and parks and rec watch em closely. But tags are easily available and a 50-70 would be awesome for a buffalo hunt.
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I'm sorry trailrider i didn't realize you were replying to my comment. :'( sorry
The Tribal Parks and Rec has a website, http://www.oglalasiouxparksandrec.net/
Right now my tribe has a culling tag for 500 but thats for tribal members only i think. I could get one but i'm a have to borrow my dad's 30-06 as the only rifle i got thats powerful enough to kill a buffalo is my .50 ML, and yes, Tatanka is the right word for buffalo. Mazawakan is the word for rifle. Mazasu is the word for bullet. translation for rifle is Mystery Iron and for bullet is Iron seed.
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I'm sorry trailrider i didn't realize you were replying to my comment. :'( sorry
The Tribal Parks and Rec has a website, http://www.oglalasiouxparksandrec.net/
Right now my tribe has a culling tag for 500 but thats for tribal members only i think. I could get one but i'm a have to borrow my dad's 30-06 as the only rifle i got thats powerful enough to kill a buffalo is my .50 ML, and yes, Tatanka is the right word for buffalo. Mazawakan is the word for rifle. Mazasu is the word for bullet. translation for rifle is Mystery Iron and for bullet is Iron seed.
Hau Kola!
Are you anywhere near Kyle? I have Hunka relatives out by Rosebud, but everybody I knew up by Pine Ridge have passed over :( .
I hope winter treats you well.
Aho Mitakuye Oyasin
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Yes Professor I am, I have some relatives over in Rosebud too. but they're distant relatives/
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There is a Rosebud in Southern Alberta, 1/2 hour from Drumheller, population 300. Got family there, principles in the Rosebud School of Theatrics.
Used to be prime cattle country, now it's all about canola.
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That Rosebud is a little bit north of where I am but neat.
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...People regard the 45-70 as a pretty skookum load for game and target use. But - the same amount of lead and powder in a 50-70 gets a sneer...
I came to the same conclusion. The more I use the 50-70 the less use I had for the 45-70. And because I have a 405 for flat shooting, I really have o use for the 45-70. I wrote about that on a couple of fora. Made no friends fast!
...Load was the Lyman 515141/450 over 65 grs FFG. Recoil is quite manageable even from my Shiloh 50-70 carbine...
Yep, sounds about right. I shoot a customized 1866 trapdoor so keep my loads a bit soft. The 1865 and 1866 are were the myth of the weak trapdoor is actually true.
Kevin