Author Topic: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt  (Read 1844 times)

Offline treebeard

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45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« on: October 31, 2020, 03:28:15 PM »
Any drawbacks to using 45 Schofield in 45 Colt in Old Model Vaquero?? Noticed a shortage of 45 Colt brass recently. Can't imagine what caused the shortage!!

Offline Cap'n Redneck

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2020, 03:55:12 PM »
No drawback that I can think of. 
I've been shooting .45 Schofield in revolvers and rifles chambered for .45 Colt for years. 
If you shoot smokeless and decide to switch back to .45 Colt after shooting Schofield for a while, you might wanna run a bronze brush through the chamber(s) first to remove carbon fouling.
If shooting blackpowder I guess you clean your guns on a regular basis anyways...
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Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2020, 04:02:39 PM »
My Good Tree

what CapnR said.

I do it all the time, what I have done is use different case sizes to clearly identify different loads
.45 Schofield is for smokeless
.45 Colt is for BP & subs
.45 Cowboy is for ... wait, I forget...

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Offline Abilene

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2020, 04:53:15 PM »
Howdy Treebeard, I have heard of some OMV's having an issue where the larger rim of the Schofield hits the cylinder ratchet.  Might depend on brass brand and/or manufacturing variances in the cylinder.  Anyways filing or sanding down the ratchet a hair was the fix.

If you have a toggle-link .45, the Schofields will run through that as well if the OAL isn't too short.

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2020, 09:21:18 AM »

 :)  PLUS ONE too Abilene   :D

Sorry I'm late to the party.  Hi Treebeard!!  YES !!  There is a problem running 45 Schofield in the Original Ruger Vaquero.  As mentioned by Abilene, the larger rim of the Schofield cases would not clear the hub of the star.  Normally I would file small "flats" in the hub at the apex of the chamber.

And while you have it apart, do check the cylinder throats.  Ruger are notorious for undersize cylinder throats.  Not uncommon to find .448 throats when they should be .452 or .453 depending on barrel grooves.

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PS:  As also mentioned by Abilene, 45 Schofield will run in Toggle Link Rifles as long as the bullets chosen are no shorter than a 200Gr RNFP.

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #5 on: Today at 03:50:52 PM »

Offline Baltimore Ed

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2020, 11:45:40 AM »
Just a heads up I also ran into issues using a 160 gr swc Schofield loads in my 1873. [Recently got a good deal on a bunch so I’m experimenting with them.] There is just enough of a radius on the ‘nose’ of the bullet that they can turn slightly and jam the rear of the lifter which locks up the rifle. I had some older 160 gr rnfp loads which ran just fine so I naturally tried these swc loads, some fed fine but others didn’t. Once I straightened the crooked case on the carrier with my penknife it fed fine. Rnfp loads naturally keep themselves straight. I used all Schofield loads in last month’s match and am planning to do the same this month. While I liked my ‘73 centennial build and Schofield revolver a lot I didn’t like the open top so I’ll use my uberti birdshead instead. I’ll use 200 gr rnfp in the rifle and the 160 swc in my revolvers.
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Offline treebeard

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2020, 02:51:48 PM »
:)  PLUS ONE too Abilene   :D

Sorry I'm late to the party.  Hi Treebeard!!  YES !!  There is a problem running 45 Schofield in the Original Ruger Vaquero.  As mentioned by Abilene, the larger rim of the Schofield cases would not clear the hub of the star.  Normally I would file small "flats" in the hub at the apex of the chamber.

And while you have it apart, do check the cylinder throats.  Ruger are notorious for undersize cylinder throats.  Not uncommon to find .448 throats when they should be .452 or .453 depending on barrel grooves.

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PS:  As also mentioned by Abilene, 45 Schofield will run in Toggle Link Rifles as long as the bullets chosen are no shorter than a 200Gr RNFP.

I saw where Starline had Schofield cases even in this time of shortage and thought this was a way to load up some extra rounds but found a bunch of 45 Colt  in the back of my shed and so I will wait the shortage out on new 45 Colt. I am very fond of my OMV's so will stick with what i have. Of course the Schofields would be good in my 1873 SAA so I will keep that option in mind. Thanks for all the feed back

Offline Abilene

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2020, 06:00:18 PM »
Ed, that jam with the last round loaded being crooked on the carrier - Some Uberti '73's (mostly going back a few years) were made without the radius or bevel added to the sharp corner of the frame where the crooked rim is catching.  If you file a bevel there it can help.  Of course, straightening the round on the carrier before levering it the first time also works.  Pioneer gunworks had a tip on their website telling how to do it, but I also have a couple pics that show it better if needed.

The reason I started loading Schofields was for my 16" '45 Colt '73.  It will hold ten full length Colts but it is hard to load and that last round was cocked bad on the carrier from spring pressure.  Using the Schofields makes it easier

Offline Blackpowder Burn

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2020, 10:53:30 PM »
I've come to really like the 45 Schofield for black powder loads.  It's powder capacity is just enough reduced to make it very pleasant to shoot even in a 4-3/4" SAA.  It also runs through my Marlin 1894.  I just ordered some more from Starline today, as a matter of fact.

Never want to run out of brass or primers in times like these.......or lead, or powder............ :-\
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Offline Dave T

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2020, 10:40:18 AM »
I don't know the details of shooting Old Model Vaqueros but the Indian Wars Army carried and fired the Ordnance Department's version of the 45 Schofield from about 1875 up till 1892 and the adaption of the wimpy 38. Except for the rim business discussed above there's no reason it wouldn't work as well today.

Having said all that, I think I'll go load some full power, black powder 45 Colts. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #10 on: Today at 03:50:52 PM »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2020, 09:27:40 AM »

 :)  Dave T   ;)

That "Ordinance Department" round you cite was actually for all practical purposes, a 45 Colt case, shortened to Schofield length, to be useable in both SAA and S&W handguns.  Was designated "45 Government"

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Offline Dave T

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2020, 10:16:14 AM »
Maker of Coffins,

I thought I kind of covered that, but I did not in fact rightly name it as you did.

For just a tad more info, the load they (Ordnance) settled on was 28g of 'gun powder' behind a 230g RNFP. It went about 850 fps and was the inspiration, ballisticly, for the 45 ACP cartridge of 1911. (grin)

Dave

Offline Mustang Gregg

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2020, 10:49:03 AM »
Sorry.  RATS moderator here...
My router has been down for a week+.  I just now got the message.
The only issue that I can see is if the rims are possibly too big and the over long lead in a .45 Colt cylinder.
But at SASS distance, WTH??

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2020, 09:20:06 AM »

 :)  Hey Treebeard   ;)

A thought.  If your not wrapped around the "Authentic" axel, there is an even better option.  Cowboy 45 Special.  Cute Lil cartridge.  Absolutely perfect for reduced smokeless (gag, choke, puke) loading and absolutely the Beez Kneez for BP (what it was designed for).  160Gr bullets are nice indeed and 130Gr Barnstormer bullets are just SUPERB!!  Just a Thought in passing.  Same Rim diameter as 45 Colt.

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Offline 1961MJS

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2020, 10:29:00 AM »
HI
I haven't had this issue YET, but its been said that running shorter cartridges in a cylinder will make it difficult to load say a .357 Mag after you've been shooting .38 Specials, or load a .45 Colt when you've been shooting .45 Schofield.  You have to do a good job of cleaning the cylinder when you get done with the match.

Later
Mike
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2020, 10:16:10 AM »

 :)  1961MJS   ;)

Please allow me to elucidate   :D   It "Depends."  (No, not the kind in the plastic package)   ::)  Whether you get a Burnt Carbon Ring at the case mouth, will depend on the powder used.  When, in my Sordid, Heathen, Ignorant past, I dabbled in that heathen fad smokeless stuff, I shot TightGroup in everything.  I don't remember having a Carbon Ring with TightGroup.

Now that I am more educated, shooting BP and Subs, there is no Carbon Ring in the chambers of my guns.  None.  Zip.  Nada.  YMMV

Offline 1961MJS

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2020, 04:07:51 PM »
Hi Coffinmaker

I had it once, on an S&W, not my Schofield, possibly with Factory Ammo, but I tend to brush the cylinders every time I clean now though. 

Later
Mike
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Offline Abilene

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2020, 05:49:39 PM »
I can shoot 1000 rounds of smokeless .38 (Unique powder and now coated bullets) and still chamber a .357 in my '73.  However, in a .44 conversion, only 100 rounds of Black Hills 44 Russians (and that's only 16 or 17 per cylinder hole) will prevent a .44 Special from chambering without scraping the carbon.  Definitely a YMMV situation.

Offline LongWalker

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Re: 45 Schofield in 45 Colt
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2020, 08:43:16 PM »
Just a thought.  I'm running some tests on 38 Colt Long bullets in a 357 Ruger.  The 38 LC loads are BP loaded in shortened 38 Special cases, pure lead bullets lubed with my usual BP lube.  After 150-200 rounds--running a patched jag through the cylinder every 30 rounds, so 6 shots per chamber--I'm getting a ring in the chamber that will make a .357 case "drag" on extraction.  The ring appears to be a mix of carbon and baked lube (or something similar).  A wire brushing before changing loads will take it right out. 

It seems you might get a similar situation if using BP loads in shorter cases in a 45 Colt. 
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Offline treebeard

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Re: 45 Schofield —- Success
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2021, 12:15:41 PM »
As an update I was lucky to acquire a decent supply of Schofield cases. I tried them in two old Vaqueros, a Uberti SAA in 45 Colt and a Marlin Cowboy in 45 Colt with no problems at all. My brass anxiety has been relieved!! Thanks for the various input on this issue. I need to try some black powder loads in standard and Schofield cases.

 

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