Author Topic: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)  (Read 13455 times)

Offline Jake MacReedy

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Thought you might enjoy these!  Combination of cap-and-ball firearms and Henry rifles.  The gent on the right (looking at the picture) in the first picture is none other than Luther "Yellowstone" Kelly.

Jake



Offline The Elderly Kid

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 09:36:00 PM »
What's the firearm held by the gent on the left in the first picture? It's awfully short for that period. Looks like some sort of musketoon.

Offline Jake MacReedy

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 09:53:03 PM »
It could possibly be a U.S. Model 1842 Short Musket, or a Model 1847 Dragoon Musketoon...not really sure which, if either!

Jake

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Offline Colt Fanning

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2011, 08:40:23 AM »
The image in front of the hammer looks like the opening lever for an trapdoor.  What ever it is the barrel has been
greatly shortened.

Regards
Colt

Offline Jake MacReedy

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 12:42:27 PM »
A few more from our period:
Rip Ford, Texas Ranger, 1850's (I really like the two holsters with the big Colt's!):

Headed for California and the Gold Fields:

Kansas Boys, Late-1850's, during the Border Wars:


Best Regards,
Jake

Offline Jake MacReedy

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2011, 01:00:41 PM »
Good eyes, Colt!  If that's the case , then this is a post-1866 picture and I need to delete it.

Regards,
Ron

Offline Sacramento Johnson

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2011, 02:47:08 PM »
Hi Jake,
 Kelly looks like he's holding a '66 Winchester rifle, not a Henry. The mag tube looks smaller than the barrel (compare to the picture with the guy standing next to the Henry), and one can kinda make out the end cap and wooden fore-end on Kelly's rifle.  (The area by the receiver seems to actually be part of his hand/fingers making it look split.)

Those pistols Ford has on look like Dragoons.  Supports my belief that despite their bulk, they made it onto belts for those who really wanted/needed stopping power. The would be miner looks to be carrying a '51, along with a single shot, large knife and a pepperbox?  Can't figure out what the rifle is, though...

Wish I could make out more of the firearms those Kansas boys have on.  I do see a plethora of big knives including the standing guy on the far left who looks like he's carrying some sort of short sword, maybe an artillery style.

Offline Ranch 13

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Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline JimBob

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 03:41:15 PM »

Wish I could make out more of the firearms those Kansas boys have on.  I do see a plethora of big knives including the standing guy on the far left who looks like he's carrying some sort of short sword, maybe an artillery style.

It looks like the U.S M1833 Artillery Short Sword.Great picture of the clothing and hat styles.

Offline Jake MacReedy

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 06:52:49 PM »
Good eyes and good call, Ranch 13!  This picture is also in PACKING IRON, where he's described as a "traveler."  Where I got the picture, he's described as someone about to head for the Gold Fields.  Had an opportunity to buy a handmade replica of a Hall's Carbine about 4 years ago at the Fall NMLRA shoot at Friendship, Indiana, but the price tag was a whopping $5,000!  Couldn't afford that one!  And he's also holding a pepperbox pistol in his right hand.

And, Sacramento, you may be right!  Kelly was known  to have owned a couple different Henry's, one having a shortened barrel (how they did that, I'd like to know myself!) I'm sure he owned other rifles after the Henry.

Regards to all, and thank for the comments!
Jake

See this post for pics of Kelly's Henry: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=32491.0

Offline St. George

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2011, 05:51:56 PM »
For those of you who can't get enough of period photos - try this link:

http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/research/cms/Exhibits/FieldandStudio/tabid/137/Default.aspx

Vaya,

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It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

Offline Delmonico

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 01:11:10 PM »
Add this collection also:

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/daghtml/daghome.html

A lot are back east, but one of the best collections of pictures from the era.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Caleb Hobbs

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 11:09:27 PM »
Thanks for the links, St. George and Del.

Del, it's going to take some time to go through this one -- http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/daghtml/daghome.html -- but I've found a few non-formal photos so far, including some laborers.


Caleb


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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 01:49:33 PM »
Here is a pic of Lt. Charles W. Wilson, Royal Engineers, Fort Colville, 1860


 ;)

Offline flincher

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2011, 09:20:05 PM »

Here is a pic of Lt. Charles W. Wilson, Royal Engineers, Fort Colville, 1860


 ;)

Hello all this is my first post here. I have been reading the forums here for the last couple days and this picture caught my attention.
My first?  Is that a full stock or half stock muzzle loader?
Next thing I noticed was the pucker toe moccasins. This style of clothing is very similar to what voyagers used during the fur trade and speaks volumes about this transitional period. Compared to the earlier photos of the men from Kansas, there is quite a wide range of clothing styles to choose from.

It is fun to see others take interest in this part of history.
Is it strange to spend so much time looking at flintlocks on my smart phone?

Offline Caleb Hobbs

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2011, 09:38:49 PM »
Howdy, flincher, and welcome to the forum.

It looks like a double-barreled shotgun to me, but I could be wrong. I'm assuming the Fort Colville mentioned is the Hudson's Bay post on the Columbia River, so a voyaguer influence seems ressonable.

Caleb

Offline Hangtown Frye

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2011, 07:07:17 PM »
Rip Ford, Texas Ranger, 1850's (I really like the two holsters with the big Colt's!):


If you look closely you can tell that these are actually Walkers, rather than Dragoons as most folks assume.  I know the gentleman who owns the original photograph, and we looked VERY closely at this, measured things and came to this conclusion.  He's the one who identified it as RIP Ford, in fact, somewhat after we made the discovery of them being Walkers.  What backs this up is that Ford himself mentions that while Adjutant of the 1st Texas Mounted Volunteers (AKA "Hays' Texas Rangers") in Mexico, in October of 1847, that he "helped himself to a pair" of the big Colts which were just being issued to the regiment.  Thus we KNOW that he had a pair of them, and he further mentions carrying them in the early 1850's (when this photo was probably made, though it could have been done just prior to the Antelope Hills campaign against the Comanche's in 1857...or was it '58?)  At any rate, its one of the very few photographs which can be pretty well established as being of Walker Colts being carried by a Westerner who wasn't just carrying something that may well have been handed to him by the Photographer to "look the part".

Cheers!

Gordon

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2011, 10:04:27 PM »
Re: the pic of Lt. Wilson RE ....

Look for a copy of "Mapping The Frontier Between British Columbia & Washington" by George F.G. Stanley; Wilson's diary of the survey of the 49th parallel 1858-62 while secretary of the British Boundary Commission.  Mine is dated 1970, no ISBN number. Printed by the Macmillan Company of Toronto.
The RE Officers were all brilliant men who earned their rank rather than by purchase, and often indulged in Victorian excesses of 'quaintness' in clothing, bordering on the theatrical. Their beautiful red tunics were not worn in the field, the British Army often adopting "local pattern" clothing suited to the climate and environment.

'Srjt. J. McMurphy RE
RE Living History Group
aka as 'PJ Hardtack'
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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 10:39:24 AM »
PJ Does it show that photo of Wilson in his Boundary Commission outfit?  Full buckskins and an ML double shotgun.  (If not, look it up in the RCE history book.)
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: A couple of pictures of folks from the end of our time period (1860's)
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2011, 11:07:05 AM »
Sir Charles

Of course it shows Wilson in "voyageur" dress. As a long time member of the current RELHG and the co-founder of the previous RE living history group, I'm well versed in the history of the RE in BC.

It has always puzzled me why there is so little interest, knowledge and awareness of the activities of the RE during their stay - 1858-63. The public and the gov't are indifferent and it isn't being taught in schools. The RE reenactors were ignored during the recent sesqui-centennial of the province in favour of the more PC 'drum beaters' in running shoes and blue jeans.

My wife, another lady portraying "lady Douglas" and myself as "Srjt. J. McMurphy RE" attended a symposium in Lytton on the Fraser Canyon War, invited as part of the 'truth & reconciliation' part of the symposium. In period dress and uniform, we felt like pork chops at a Jewish wedding and were shunted to the tail end of the festivities after the PC academics had bored us to death with their repetitive recitations of the depredations and injustice of the white incursions up the Fraser in search of gold.

It was the RE that put an end to this and established law and order in the Colony.

I asked historian/author Jane Barman to comment on the contribution of the RE to the history of the Colony and she said it in one word - "incalculable".

Any time you want to get involved - civilian or military, let me know. I'll give you the contact information in Victoria. You will find very knowledgeable men, including historians and other professionals - lawyers and the like. My wife and I are the sole reps in the Cariboo Gold Rush country and we need reinforcements.

In the meantime, check out royalengineers.ca  if the site is still operational.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

 

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