Author Topic: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle  (Read 8854 times)

Offline Galloway

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Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« on: September 03, 2011, 12:31:15 AM »
I was in a local museum today and i saw a .54 cal half stock plainsrifle with a veryl heavy barrel. I checked and saw it was not a conversion but was probably a 14-16 pound gun. I was wondering if heavy barrel plainsrifles were common or a rare thing during their day. I can understand such a barrel on a cartridge buffalo gun but never thought them on standard muzzle loaders. Thanks

Offline ol coot

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2011, 08:05:57 AM »
  Galloway,
   The  haft stock plainsrifle [Hawken] was in the 12-14 lb area, some heavier.
   My Itacha 50 cal weight is 13 lbs. Being as how most MM traveled with horses
 weight wern't no big deal for there rifle.
 
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Offline Galloway

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2011, 11:37:18 AM »
Oh this thing was huge much thicker than a typical hawken. Thanks though

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #3 on: Today at 06:39:42 AM »

Offline Caleb Hobbs

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2011, 10:22:23 PM »
Did the museum give a date or any other kind of description? I know over-the-log matches were popular back in the 1930s (still are in some areas), and had some heavy barrels. As did slug guns. Knew a guy shot a slug gun that weighted 50-plus pounds. Not much recoil there. Back east, these kind of matches have always been popular. Could it have been something like that?

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2011, 09:55:12 AM »
Yes the heavy barreled guns were quite common. They used extra "meat" around the bore to insure being able to shoot heavy powder charges .
 A good many of the "hawkens" rifles of today have a barrel about half the size of the originals.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline wildman1

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2011, 03:10:11 PM »
My Hawkin has a 7/8" octagon barrel.  It is a 53 cal. WM
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Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 05:31:37 PM »
The 2 original Hawkins I have personnaly touched had 1 1/4 barrels.
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Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 09:13:11 PM »
There's a handful of plains rifles of various manufacture in the Buffalo Bill History Center, that have barrels at least an inch and a quarter and possibly larger..
 The 54 fullstock flint hawken reproduction rifle I owned had a 1 1/4 inch barrel, the thing weighed 14 lbs but was a pleasure to shoot and hunt with.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Galloway

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 11:52:20 AM »
I hadnt thought of them handling more powder thats intresting. Thanks guys

Offline Caleb Hobbs

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 12:10:56 PM »
I suspect the weight was more for stability. The old timers I talked to in Indiana, many of whom were shooting muzzle loaders back in the 1930s when the NMLRA was established, always told me that too much powder would just blow out the muzzle. Not to mention blown patches.

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 03:23:04 PM »
Page 183 in Ned Roberts Muzzleloading Caplock rifle has a good bit about the Hawken rifles using up to 250 grs of powder.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline JimBob

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2011, 03:44:03 PM »
Did you happen to notice if by any chance the barrel was turned round for a short length at the muzzle or was it octagon full length?

Offline Galloway

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2011, 09:47:44 AM »
I believe the full length was octogonal.

Offline Jake MacReedy

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2011, 04:25:56 PM »
Ranch13, what kind of loads did you use in your heavy-barrel Hawken?  I have Hanson's book on the Hawken, but it doesn't go into the loads used very much.  I'm actually thinking of building a heavy-barrel one like the originals, and use it for hunting at home in Texas.

Thanks in advance for the info!

Regards,
Jake

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 07:15:58 PM »
535 pillowtic patched ball with 55 grs of goex 2f for most things. Hunting and longrange target work 110 grs powder.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Jake MacReedy

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 09:06:50 PM »
Thanks for the info!  I appreciate it!

Offline Paladin UK

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2011, 01:41:02 PM »
Fer WM....

53cal!! :o
That ball must be  `bout an ounce!!     Gotta be like lettin loose a 12g slug!! :o :o

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Offline Ranch 13

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2011, 01:58:41 PM »
 535 rb weighs about 220grs.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2011, 02:37:43 PM »
Miscellaneous Question #14

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscelln.htm

AND!!!!  A roundball ballistic calculator;  Scroll down to "where to get it" to download. What you see is only a demo and won't work.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballistics.html

It is amazing how smart Mister Google is ???
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Offline wildman1

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Re: Bull Barrel Plainsrifle
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2011, 05:55:32 PM »
Fer WM....

53cal!! :o
That ball must be  `bout an ounce!!     Gotta be like lettin loose a 12g slug!! :o :o

Paladin (Whats now whinkin of adding to his collection  ;) ) UK
520 round ball weighs 213 grains. WM
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