But, I've also been seriously researching this period since 1974, and even though there are always exceptions to the rule, by and large flintlocks were rapidly growing out of favor among frontiersmen, and guns like the Spencer and Henry weren't yet readily available to the average hunter/trader/wayfarer. I've always liked NCOWS approach to what is acceptable -- was it common? Unfortunately, in my opinion neither style fits that criteria.
Caleb
I have been hesitant to post on this subject so far, wanting to see which way the wind blows and as for joining this group – oh well it sounds like another group being setup based on a limited vision of the period of a few…….the vision I see forming here is more of one based on the timeline of Johnston’s Plainsmen series of the 1860-70’s rather then the earlier period. Also I see a lot of impetus towards the scout and others of that type and not the more common types of folks such as settler, traders, Metis, et al….
And yes I realize all groups have birthing pains, but so far that’s how it looks from over here?
?
Anyway here’s my two cents and with all due respect , but if you really think that flintlocks weren't "common" during the 1840-1865 period then you have apparently not been doing in depth research despite the length of time you state (and FWIW and not to start a peeing contest I’ve been studying it since 1962 and have a wall full of books plus Gigabytes of primary docs on my computer all based on study of the 1800-1865 period).
Opinions aside flintlocks were VERY common on the plains and elsewhere up through the 1860's - HBC continued to sell them until the 1920's in fact.
Amongst the Metis and others who hunted buffalo for hides, tongues, and pemmican (a major and little known business on the plains and in the mountains prior to the the hide hunters of the 1870's) the most popular gun was the shortened NW Gun in flintlock. Also Sam Hawken for instance was still building flinters in the 1850’s. In fact one of the most famous Hawkens, the so-called Smithsonian Hawken, built in 1852-53, was originall built as a flinter and is the only verified flint Hawken Mountain rifle.
FWIW – here’s just a bit of period research - dated 1843 which shows how common at this date the flinters still were and as noted above the main fire arm of the military on both sides through the Mexican War of 1846 was the flintlock:
In 1843 Captain Philip St. George Cooke, in command of a dragoon detachment patrolling an area along the north bank of the
Arkansas River, encountered a band of Texas "irregulars/freeboters" who were threatening a Santa Fe caravan. Anticipating trouble
from the captain and his frontier-toughened troops, the Texans hastily concealed a number of their best weapons (including some
Colt repeating rifles), but Cooke nevertheless relieved them of various other guns, including muskets, shotguns, pistols, and rifles.
Among the rifles Cooke confiscated and later turned in at Fort Leavenworth were:
30 flint lock rifles, valued at eighteen dollars each, including the barrel of one which has no stock, which appears to have been lost in
transportation.
12 percussion rifles, valued at twenty two dollars and fifty cents, including the barrel of one which has no stock. . . .
3 half stock Middletown rifles, percussion lock, valued at eighteen dollars each.
1 full stock percussion lock [Middletown rifle], valued at eighteen dollars.
1 halfstock flint lock Middletown rifle, valued at eighteen dollars.
NOTE: The "Middletown rifles" were probably altered U.S. Model 1817 contract arms made by Simeon North
Totals: 31 flinters and 16 percussion
Besides the forty-seven rifles and two "American dragoon carbines" (Hall's maybe - could be either flint or caplock) the Texans were carrying twenty-eight smoothbores of various types:
15 English flint lock shot guns.
3 Tower pieces (most likely India pattern Brown Bess flinters)
1 Large American flint lock shot gun.
2 Double barrelled flint lock, stub and twist, shot guns.
4 Percussion lock, double barreled, stub and twist, shot guns.
1 American musket.
2 Texas muskets (most likely the flintlock M1822 type muskets supplied to Texas by Tryon of Philadelphia in 1840 and marked Texas with a star on the lockplates) - a total of 860 were purchased out of the 1,500 ordered.
Totals: 23 flinters and 4 caplock - the American musket could be of either ignition so was not included in the totals.
The Texas "freebooters" were also rather well equipped with pistols - Cooke confiscated:
4 pairs of flint lock holster pistols, valued at twenty dollars a pair.
2 pairs percussion lock pistols, valued at forty dollars a pair.
8 flint lock holster pistols, odd, valued at ten dollars apiece.
7 percussion lock belt pistols, valued at fifteen dollars apiece.
1 percussion lock duelling pistol, valued at forty dollars.
Totals: 16 flinters and 13 caplock - just about half and half
I have much more info which I can/will try to post regarding flinters in the west. While it’s true that the caplocks became more and more prominent during this period flinters of all type were in fact very common even in the later days while as noted the Spencer and Winchester were not……..
For some of the best primary info on firearms of the time period 1840-1865 check out Garavaglia and Worman’s “Firearms of the American West: 1803-1865 and Worman’s late book “Gunsmoke and Saddle Leather”
STU KETTLE
1. I didn't say that shotguns were unheard of. I said that most Plainsmen probably wouldn't have bothered to carry one because of the great distances on the Plains. I don't know where you are from but I live in North Dakota and have hunted here for 25 years. If you get a shot at any big game animal under 100 yards, it is a rare occasion indeed. That to me is a great distance for a black powder rifle of any kind.
I take it you never hunted with a muzzleloader? Having live and hunted in the west since 1965 most of my hunting has been done with muzzeloading rifles and with the proper shot 150 years is not out of the question albeit most of mine have been under 100 yards – but then you have to hunt like they did then and not depend on how far your rifle reaches. Muzzleloaders were in fact the primary hunting arm all over the west up until the 1870’s most. The plainsmen and others all did not run out and get a new fangled cartidge gun, most of which were less powerful than the muzzleloaders of the day. Jim Bridger, a master scout, was still carrying his 52 caliber Hawken in 1865 for instance, since most of the old timers like him did not care for the new guns and their weaker cartidges.
Oh and by the way shotguns were quite common in the period, especially for night guard duty – they are mentioned and documented along the Santa Fe Trail in particular.
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