Author Topic: Why is this period so completely ignored?  (Read 34873 times)

Offline Oregon Bill

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2011, 06:10:13 PM »
Great news! The new film "Meek's Cutoff" takes place in 1845 on the Oregon Trail. Roger Ebert gave it a very fine review.
Cannot wait to see it!

Offline Jake MacReedy

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2011, 10:47:47 PM »
Sounds like that will be a good one to see!  Hope they get the firearms correct for the period!

Jake

Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2011, 07:49:27 PM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rhNrz2hX_o[/youtube]

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #43 on: Today at 03:19:01 AM »

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2011, 10:06:51 PM »
Was down west of the new village of Beatrice in the Nebraska Territory this weekend talking to some sort of strangley dressed folks.



He said he was from Missouri, I suspect he is a bushwhacker came up here to stir up trouble. ;)
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Offline The Elderly Kid

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2011, 12:26:46 PM »
I love this period, too. It's been treated a bit in novels - Guthrie's "The Way West," McCarthy's "Blood Meridian," a few others. But it's Hollywood that established pop culture in the national psyche and Hollywood has rarely been interested in the era for a simple reason: the great scarcity of women in the West. There were Mexican and Indian women, and the Chinese imported "sing-song girls," but all of these presented problems for 20th century Hollywood. This left you with all-male stories, which would alienate 50% of the audience. The emigrant wagon train headed for Oregon (as in "The Way West") was about the only venue where women could be included in any numbers. Let's face it, audiences didn't care much about sodbusters. They wanted gunfighters and gamblers and adventurers. With the coming of the railroad, American women began heading west in large numbers, making the 1865-'90 period ideal from a movie pespective. Unfortunately, people think of this era as the "Wild West" when in reality it was the period when the west was settling down and getting its law. The real Wild West was from the L&C era to the Civil War.

Offline shrapnel

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2011, 06:48:48 PM »
With the coming of the railroad, American women began heading west in large numbers, making the 1865-'90 period ideal from a movie perspective. Unfortunately, people think of this era as the "Wild West" when in reality it was the period when the west was settling down and getting its law. The real Wild West was from the L&C era to the Civil War.

The truth is that most people base their history on movies. It is sad, but that seems to be the most significant perception of life, especially  history of the West. The "Wild West" may have been wild from L&C to the Civil War, but that was only in respect to the lack of settlement. "Wild West" usually refers to the people and their activities, which does make the "Wild West" a period of time from the Civil War to sometime after the turn of the 20th century.

Tom Horn, for example contributed to the West being Wild and used a model 1894 Winchester and was hanged in 1903, certainly expanding what could actually be called "Wild" into the 20th century. Besides that, like it or not, the most popular attraction to firearms is that of metallic cartridges and not muzzle loading or cap and ball firearms. This has much to do with re enactment as well as the costumes following a more desirable style than that of the pre Civil War America.

America was a burgeoning country at that time and the whole world was watching. Everything America did, the rest of the world took notes. This was an industrious time, of settlement and discovery.  It certainly captivates my interest, however, I would not trade the time I am living to go back to the 1880's and try to survive the way they did then.
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Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2011, 03:48:13 AM »
The truth is that most people base their history on movies. It is sad, but that seems to be the most significant perception of life, especially  history of the West...

Besides that, like it or not, the most popular attraction to firearms is that of metallic cartridges and not muzzle loading or cap and ball firearms...


Excellent points as well as the mere mention of having to use REAL BP eliminates about 99% of the people. Look at CAS. I'd say less than 1% shoot BP.

Offline Oregon Bill

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2011, 09:13:26 AM »
Kid: What do you think the percentage is in NCOWS?

Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2011, 10:16:16 PM »
Kid: What do you think the percentage is in NCOWS?

I am not sure now as there is no NCOWS posse near me. It was NEVER over 10% at the most in the past.

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2011, 11:34:10 PM »
To be truthful CAS/WAS really does not have that much to compare with living history other than dressing about the same.  Shooting lots of steel targets as fast as you can and timing with an electronic timer no matter what propellant is being used has very little to do with demonstrating old time skills in a public venue.  Most spectators at a shoot are there to observe and decide if they want to shoot the same steel targets against a electronic timer in the future or if golfing is a better hobby for them. ;)

I have never found in any historical sources of this type of shooting with 19th Century firearms before the 1980's, although like many other things I am open to proof of it happening with proper documentation. ::) 
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Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

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Offline Delmonico

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2011, 11:55:23 PM »
BTW most who are involved with Living History/Renacting consider renacting most often to involve trying to depict an event such as a  military battle or civilian gunfight from history where the people involved use blanks in their firearms, such as this depecting the Hickok/McCandless fracas at Rock Creek Station in July of 1861, and I will add it is at the spot it happened.

Living history is someone depecting old time skills such as this highly skilled blacksmith:





or these guys sawing lumber with a mill powered by a steam traction engine:



Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Two-Step

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2011, 08:55:58 PM »
NO, NO, NO!!!!
Bringing this type of thing up might incite people to do some research and realize that we have been lied to by the U.S. Government, history class, and Hollywood. Not to mention that people may want existing cowboy shooting organizations to open up a division for histroically accurate DA shooters in much the same way they did for the likes of the "wild bunch". Heck, people might even want to start wearing historically correct rubber and rubberised clothing... or God forbid (can I still say God?) people realize that not everyone carried or even owned more than one gun, much less 4 of them at a time.

This post is little more than trouble making, with the idea of getting people to do something other than what is commonly and social acceptable, in accordance with Hollywood, government sanctioned history teachings, and already established cowboy shooting organizations. HOW DARE YOU?

Seriously though... I like the idea. Lets hear more about it.  ;D
I do have to wonder if a period accurate Adams revolver would be permitted. Not that I have one, it would just be nice to know.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote. -Benjamin Franklin

Offline JimBob

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2011, 10:55:02 PM »
Here's a reprint book ya'all might find interestin'

http://www.edwardrhamilton.com/titles/7/2/4/7242719.html

Tells ya what you need to take on the journey and conditions on the trail.

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2011, 11:43:18 PM »
NO, NO, NO!!!!
Bringing this type of thing up might incite people to do some research and realize that we have been lied to by the U.S. Government, history class, and Hollywood. Not to mention that people may want existing cowboy shooting organizations to open up a division for histroically accurate DA shooters in much the same way they did for the likes of the "wild bunch". Heck, people might even want to start wearing historically correct rubber and rubberised clothing... or God forbid (can I still say God?) people realize that not everyone carried or even owned more than one gun, much less 4 of them at a time.

This post is little more than trouble making, with the idea of getting people to do something other than what is commonly and social acceptable, in accordance with Hollywood, government sanctioned history teachings, and already established cowboy shooting organizations. HOW DARE YOU?

Seriously though... I like the idea. Lets hear more about it.  ;D
I do have to wonder if a period accurate Adams revolver would be permitted. Not that I have one, it would just be nice to know.



Jim Bob, NCOWS allows the period DA's as well as having rifle and pistol only classes, the GAF does also. ;D  Both groups are very interested in the history.

Also type: The praire traveler, on-line version into your search engine if you want to read it for free.
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline JimBob

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2011, 11:51:35 PM »

Also type: The praire traveler, on-line version into your search engine if you want to read it for free.

LOL I got tired of cleaning the underline marks and annotations off my screen.Another good book written during the period is Parkinson's The Oregon Trail, written about 1840.

Offline Delmonico

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2011, 02:22:26 AM »
LOL I got tired of cleaning the underline marks and annotations off my screen.Another good book written during the period is Parkinson's The Oregon Trail, written about 1840.

On-line also. ;D
Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.

Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2011, 08:25:13 AM »
I get Back Woodsman Magazine. They advertize a lot of events related to that era, maybe you just have to look in the right places?
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Offline Jake MacReedy

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2011, 04:44:50 PM »
I've been a subscriber to BACKWOODSMAN for years now.  And, you're right, they do advertise some events targeted at this time period, but they are rare things indeed!  The concept I'm thinking about is more along the lines of sort of an offshoot of the NMLRA, like the Fur Trade reenactors, where the timeframe of interest is the period of 1840 up to the time of the Civil War (without "stepping on the toes" of the NSSA folks!, and not getting into Civil War actions or uniforms, etc.)  This is what I call the REAL Wild West.  I realize there ar Mexican War reenactments and other such things, but I'm talking about the "civilian" side of things as well...like the California Gold Rush, the activity along the Oregon Trail, the activity along the Santa Fe Trail...and so on and so on.  There was a very interesting article in BUCKSKINNING Book IV about clothing and accoutrements styles of the Southwest that covered this period, that has always interested me.  This is the era of Bent's Fort in Colorado, and the boat traffic along the Arkansas River.  Who knows?  Maybe more interest in the era might even convince one of our gunmakers to supply us with a working "pepperbox" pistol!

Anyway, it's a dream of mine...may never get off the ground, but I like it anyway!

Regards,
Jake

Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2011, 08:40:11 PM »
I was going through some old issues of BACKWOODSMAN, There were about 20 events listed in that one copy. I don't go that far back in History so don't keep up but it appears there are some events out there.
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Offline The Elderly Kid

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Re: Why is this period so completely ignored?
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2011, 10:59:11 AM »
The first half of George McDonald Fraser's "Flashman and the Redskins" takes place in this era. The inimitable Harry Flashman becomes, by turns, a '49er, does the santa Fe trail, sees the destruction of Bent's Fort, joins the Mountain Men with Kit Carson, is a gambler/brothel owner in Santa Fe, flees south and joins Glanton's (spelled Gallantin here) scalphunters and generally gets into more perilous situations than any one man should. It's a wonderful evocation of the period and place.

 

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