Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Gun Reviews => Topic started by: sackettboys on November 04, 2008, 07:38:55 PM
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Happened to see a pic on the Traditions website. Has anyone handled/shot one? I've always like the Confederate reproduction cap & ball pistols. I like that's it steel frame. I was wondering how well it's put together and functions.
http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=FR18622
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I bought a Dance from Pietta three or so years ago (had been only available through Dixie Gun Works). I love mine, but it is pretty tight.
As far as I know, Pietta makes the guns for Traditions, but someone else might have to respond to that. From what I've seen in the past, they were somewhat inferior to the standard Pietta offerings. That said, Bass Pro Shops started carrying them and I went to handle it and was impressed on the fit & finish and it felt much smoother than mine. I see that Traditions lists the Dance as "New", which makes me wonder if they are using a different manufacturer. Of course, the salesman couldn't tell me anything. Well, maybe what time his next break was...
Here's a link to Bass Pro where it is a little more expensive than direct from Traditions:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_101694_400003001_400000000_400003000_400-3-1
Here's a link to DGW. I'm not sure if these are now the Traditions or still the Pietta, but the price has come down.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=883
If you like confederate replicas, check out some of the other guns from DGW or Traditions. DGW has also for a long time now offered a Spiller and Burr (manuf. by Pietta and now also listed as "New" on the Traditions site). Others have tried to pass off a brass framed remington as a confederate revolver by offering the "1858 New Army Texas" revolver, but the Spiller & Burr is more correct. Bass Pro also has one (under the Traditions label) which felt good, but it was not as nicely finished as the Dance. There were mill marks in the sight groove. Again, I don't know how the Piettas offered by DGW differ, if at all.
I hope someone else can chime in with experience. I'd love to hear how these are shooting and would like to see more confederate revolvers at matches. No matter what, I can't imagine that you would regret the purchase.
Here's a link to the Replica Percussion Revolver Collector's Association. They have some nice pictures to drool over. ;D
http://members.tripod.com/rprca/Home.html
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http://www.civilwar.si.edu/weapons_dance.html
Above is a link to an original Dance in the Smithsonian collection.
Trinity, I agree on enjoying my Leech & Rigdon. It is a fine shooter. If I was in the market for another revolver, it would be a toss-up between the Dance or the Whitney Navy, although I did not see that it is still being offered by DGW. Spiller & Burr design based on the Whitney.
RCJ
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None of the pictures I've seen of the original Dance show it with a square back trigger guard, but the replicas all seem to have them. Comments?
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RCJ, I knew about the revolvers I mentioned and one or two more, but I had no idea that other replicas existed until I found the Replica Percussion Revolver Collector's Association website a few months back. That piqued my interest and now I would like to focus on obtaining more confederate revolvers. Forty Rod even told me about a Uberti Dance. A quick web search brings up many discussions, but no opportunities for purchase and Uberti's sales literature makes no mention of it. I wonder how long ago they quit making it.
Forty, I don't think anybody except Alchemista has an idea why they use the square back. ???
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Forty Rod even told me about a Uberti Dance. A quick web search brings up many discussions, but no opportunities for purchase and Uberti's sales literature makes no mention of it. I wonder how long ago they quit making it...
Uberti only made about 100 or so & they were all .36 cal. if I remember correctly. Adler covers it in his Colt BP book. This was in the late 1960's - early 1970's. I have seen only seen one for sale a few years back & they wanted over $900.00 for it. :o
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Hey Forty Rod....very observant ! ! ! I was wondering the same thing and I found a website that tends to make you think the .36 Dance pistol had the round trigger guard and the .44 Dance pistol have the squareback trigger guard....
here is the website.....Look at the 6th photo under the Dance catagory
http://civilwarhandgun.com/obscure.htm
they show a pice of a dance with a squareback trigger guard....
I have been looking all over a Dance pistol and noticed that one of the sellers were listing them as " Second Generation"
.......anybody else see that ???
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LIKE I ALWAYS SAY, as soon a I say something isn't or can't be, or never was, someone comes along and proves me wrong. ::) :D
I've only seen one original and it was missing the grips frame and trigger guard (also the loading lever and hammer and most internal parts) so I can't say for certain. This is the first picture I've seen with a square back guard on either caliber, and I notice the repros have color case frames. The originals seem to have been blued with brass grip straps and front sight blades, and no mention of CCH on any parts. Grips were one piece wlnut
The .44 version is bigger than a Colt Navy but smaller than a Dragoon. No other pistol that I know of is just this size.
Norm Flayderman's Guide doesn't specify the CCH or guard shape.
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Hmmmm....you would figger that flaydermans would mention things like that...huh? I would ! ! !
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Yeah, he's usually pretty good about that. Could be that they're so scarce he doesn't know...but I can't see that being the case.
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Here are some .36 Dance pistols with the squareback triggerguard....
http://rprca.tripod.com/ModelsConfederate.html
.there is a post on this forum that explains about the 36's,
especially the fact that not many .36 Dance repros were produced and they arent being produced anymore....
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=23975.0
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well....My new Traditions ( pietta) Dance .44 arrived today. I must say the Pietta has come a long way. The fir and finish are superb! Just as good as any of my Uberti's. I am VERY PLEASED and cant wait to get out to the range !
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Hey Forty Rod....very observant ! ! ! I was wondering the same thing and I found a website that tends to make you think the .36 Dance pistol had the round trigger guard and the .44 Dance pistol have the squareback trigger guard....
here is the website.....Look at the 6th photo under the Dance catagory
http://civilwarhandgun.com/obscure.htm
they show a pice of a dance with a squareback trigger guard....
I have been looking all over a Dance pistol and noticed that one of the sellers were listing them as " Second Generation"
.......anybody else see that ???
It seems that the photo you are refering to is the photo of a replica, not an original one. If you look closely at the tagg for the gun with theTexas star on, it's labelled .44. Thedetails of the gun on the 6th photo are very like on the replica including the CH frame.
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WV.
How does the Dance shoot.
Been thinking of one my self.
Doc
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WV.
How does the Dance shoot.
Been thinking of one my self.
Doc
Mine is not bad and shoot well and precise, but cannot well hold it due to the small handle and the square trigger guard caused me some pain on my mid finger articulation.
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I've had one for about 7 years and mine is very nice, shoots well. Only trouble is, in rapid fire it drops the spent, very hot, cap into the web of your right hand, because of no recoil shield to hold it on. I used it for a two day match once and you sure shoot fast while those caps are sizzling in your palm. I had to occasionally shift my grip while cocking to let them fall to the ground. By day two the callouses were tough enough I could shoot six and withstand the burn.
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44caliberkid , I know what you mean. Hurts for a bit.
I see there is a Dance up for sale right now at a pretty good price.
But since I just picked up a Leech and Rigdon the Dance will have to waite.
Now if someone would just get the Treso nipples in stock I could shoot the Leech.
Doc
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WV Scrounger is yours built on a Dragon frame and if so any idea which model?
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WV Scrounger is yours built on a Dragon frame and if so any idea which model?
The original .44 Dance was a bit smaller than the Colt Dragoons, but not as small as the 1860 Army. It used to be an easy way to tell the fakes.
The .36 was the same size as the 1851 Colt.
All the Dances I ever heard of had round barrels forward of the barrel lug.
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Excuse my spelling on my first post (dragon), went to correct it and made the same misteke again. I'm pretty well aware of the original Dances. I was wondering what liberties the Italians took with this "replica" and was thinking that it would be an interesting pistol with a Kirst Pieta conversion if they used an off the shelf Dragoon frame w/o the recoil shields.
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Wouldn't surprise me. It would be easier, even having to remove the recoil shields. Now you went and got me curious.
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Who was the indian chief photographed holding a catridge conversion Dance? Gerinomo, Sitting Bull?
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That was Gerry. Might not have been his, but a studio prop. I don't know that anyone ever proved that one way or the other.
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The Pietta dance replicas are more the size of the 1860 and 1851 44 calibers. The Dance cylinder is same diameter but shorter than an 1860 cylinder, so you might have to shorten the conversion cylinder from the front and use 45 Cowboy Special brass. They defineitly did not use Dragoon frames or cylinders. They are sometimes refered to as Dragoon models because of the square back trigger guard.
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The photo of the .44 Traditions Dance replica on their site shows a revolver with a cylinder of constant diameter, no rebate, which would imply a frame larger than the .44 army. Unless they did a new frame and internals for this revolver that would mean a Dragoon frame and parts which would be the cheapest way to go for them unless they were striving for 100% accuracy which never seemed to be a priority for an Italian revolver.
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44caliberkid thanks for the input, just what I was looking for. Its nice to know that they took enough time to get it right.
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Here is a pic of a Pietta Dance and a Pietta 1851 navy side by side. The frame size is identicle when held together as is cylinder length and the hammer. Grip frame is identicle except for the square trigger guard. Cylinder diameter is slightly larger because of 44 cal Vs. 36 cal. They could have used the navy frame and milled off the recoil shields. All the internal parts are 1851/ 60.
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Wish I could have gotten the pic bigger but they don't accept a very large file size here. Hawkeye, I e-mailed you a bigger version of the pic.
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Thanks, looking foreward to seeing it when I get home, working this evening.
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Many of those who share on the various forums may have seen the many postings of my requests for information about various replicas that have been produced. One of these has been the Confederate replica of the Dance revolver which was originally made in Texas. After 17yrs of research into the replica revolvers that have been manufactured since the early 1950’s, I have finally been able to put together production numbers for all replica Dance revolvers that have been manufactured.
Under contract with Tony Gajewski, owner of Southwest Muzzle Loaders Supply in Angleton, Texas, Uberti made 50 Dance Commemoratives with only 44 being accepted by Tony. They were finished with the Colt bright charcoal blue. The Texas Star appears on the cylinder inlaid in gold. All other marking on the revolvers were also gold filled.
They all have an AR prefix on the serial number starting with AR001 and have a Certificate of Authenticity with each gun. Square back trigger guards, rather than the original oval type, were used to readily identify the replica from an original. The six guns rejected by Tony did not have the proper markings on the barrel and were unfinished. The barrels were returned to Uberti for correction but never returned to SMLS. That left six finished frames and cylinders without barrels. Each of the Commemorative revolvers came in a Walnut Case with a Leather covered Flask, Bullet Mold, Nipple Wrench, and Brass Cap Box.
Probably the rarest production replica revolver ever produced is the Uberti Prototype of the Dragoon size .44cal. Dance Commemorative with all the gold fillings and inlays. This original Dance replica was rejected in favor of the .36cal.
After the Commemoratives the "Shooter Model” was introduced starting with serial # 0001. These revolvers had plain cylinders and are marked SMLS INC – ANGLETON – TEXAS on top of the barrel. There were only 50 of the Uberti “Shooter Model” made. Uberti was furnishing parts to Colt at this time and could not fill any other contracts for the Dance revolver.
In the mid 1990’s Tony again revived the Dance revolver with a contract with Pietta.
It turns out that the Pietta .36cal. revolvers that were marked DANCE FIREARMS CO. - ANGLETON, TEXAS are the fewest in number at only 35 guns. These start with serial # C00001 and continue through # C00047. There were an additional 4 guns produced that are marked DANCE FIREARMS CO. - ANGLETON, TEXAS in .44cal. with rebated cylinders, # C00048-C00051. The .44cal. revolvers were prototypes for a possible
.44cal. series. These were produced in 1996.
Pietta continued shipments of the .36cal. Dance revolver that are only marked F.LLIPIETTA –MADE IN ITALY on right side of the barrel. This was at about the same time that they discontinued the marking of any revolvers with anything other than their own name. These terminated with serial # C00127. All production of the Dance revolver in .36cal. ended with serial # C00127. This is a total production of only 75 revolvers. The only revolvers left in serial #C00051-C00126 are only available from Tony Gajewsky. These now sell for over $1000+. I acquired one of these Pietta Dance revolvers off the internet recently. It is like new condition with serial # C00096. This is the only resale I have ever seen. These were also produced in 1996.
Due to a legal action between Pietta and Southwest Muzzle Loaders Supply for breach of contract, Pietta could not resume any manufacture of the .36cal. Dance revolver. Pietta had sold twelve of the Dance Firearms Co. revolvers on the European market in violation of the contract. That is the reason for there only being thirty five of the Dance Firearms Co. revolvers in the U. S. Of these thirty five revolvers fourteen are owned by RPRCA Ltd. in addition to the four .44cal. prototypes produced by Pietta.
Pietta resumed production of the .44cal. with 7 1/2" barrels and REBATED CYLINDERS with serial # C00128. This production was modified to the current STRAIGHT CYLINDERS and 8" barrel at around serial # C00233. There were only 105 Dance revolvers in .44cal. made with rebated cylinders.
The Dance in Adler's book is the current .44cal. available from Dixie and Traditions, which are made by Pietta. He does not even mention the original Uberti or Pietta .36cal.
There was a Uberti Dance revolver recently auctioned on Gun Broker. It sold for around $325 which was a correct price since it was what I categorize as a “Scrap Gun” in our book. A “Scrap Gun” is a gun that is assembled from parts left over from special edition guns and commemoratives that a manufacturer produced. Armi San Marco produced many of these. Uberti also used left over or seconds parts to assemble the Dance recently sold on Gun Broker. These guns have a very limited interest to the collector. They are oddities but have little monetary value.
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Thanks for the info Jim.
When's the book coming out?
FM