Author Topic: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?  (Read 56478 times)

Offline Marshal Deadwood

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2011, 09:33:21 PM »
Aggie, good purchase.,,,and good luck with the new rifle !

Pictures ??? please,,,inquirin' minds wanna look !

MD

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2011, 09:41:31 PM »
Congratulations!  That's great!

CC Griff
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Offline Ranch 13

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2011, 09:58:26 PM »
Those are nice rifles.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #43 on: Today at 11:16:59 AM »

Offline Pitspitr

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2011, 06:48:23 AM »
The Military NEVER gave ammuniton to buffalo huntes nor settlers. That is just so much bunk based on the "infamous" speech by Phil Sheridan to the Texas legislature that NEVER happened.

Really? Can you say revisionist/apologist history? I based my statements on a book written in the early 20th century by an aging buffalo hunter who says that he received some of this government ammunition. I'd rather take the word of someone who was there than a historian separated from the great buffalo hunts by more than a century.

http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/five/buffalo.htm
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=4927.0;wap2

And so that this post isn't completely OT, he also discusses the buffalo rifles that he and people he knew used to kill Buffalo.
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Offline Blackpowder Burn

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2011, 07:02:40 AM »
I don't have the rifle yet - should get it early next week.  Here are a few photos of it from the Gunbroker website.  The only thing I will probably do is add a mid-range tang site and globe front.  I predict lots of smoke in her future!

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/236512000/236512138/pix548496818.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/236512000/236512138/pix548228416.jpg
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/236512000/236512138/pix288788121.jpg

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Offline Trailrider

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2011, 05:57:14 PM »
The Military NEVER gave ammuniton to buffalo hunters nor settlers. That is just so much bunk based on the "infamous" speech by Phil Sheridan to the Texas legislature that NEVER happened.

http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/212/readings/buffalo-extinction.htm

Howdy, Pard,

Sorry, but I beg to respectfully differ with you about the "military NEVER" giving ammo to buffalo hunters nor settlers".  Perhaps the Army didn't give ammo to buffalo hunters, but I have a photocopy of an order from either the CO Dept of the Platte or the Dept of the Dakotas authorizing issue of both arms and ammo to settlers for their protection from hostile Indians in those instances where the hostiles were "out" (off the reservation) and the Army couldn't leave detachments to defend individual families.  I have it here in the house..somewhere...(haven't looked for it for years, but I know I have it!)

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Offline Yellowhouse Sam

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2011, 11:59:58 PM »
Volume III ain't gonna hit the press until you galoots buy up all of Vol II.....so get to ordering!!!!!  And thats a fact!  These are chock full of info, not many printed , and guarantee you will be worth substantial premiums in the future.  I calll em investment books kinda like those Skeeter Skelton, John Bivins, and Sellers wrote.  I pretty proud of my hardback "Getting a Stand" by Miles Gilbert too.
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Offline JimBob

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2011, 12:09:55 AM »
Volume III ain't gonna hit the press until you galoots buy up all of Vol II.....so get to ordering!!!!!  And thats a fact!  These are chock full of info, not many printed , and guarantee you will be worth substantial premiums in the future.  I calll em investment books kinda like those Skeeter Skelton, John Bivins, and Sellers wrote.  I pretty proud of my hardback "Getting a Stand" by Miles Gilbert too.

LOL It's ordered.A lot of those books bought years ago turned into a pretty good investment going by what some of them are bringing on the used book market.

Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2011, 04:10:11 AM »
Howdy, Pard,

Sorry, but I beg to respectfully differ with you about the "military NEVER" giving ammo to buffalo hunters nor settlers".  Perhaps the Army didn't give ammo to buffalo hunters, but I have a photocopy of an order from either the CO Dept of the Platte or the Dept of the Dakotas authorizing issue of both arms and ammo to settlers for their protection from hostile Indians in those instances where the hostiles were "out" (off the reservation) and the Army couldn't leave detachments to defend individual families.  I have it here in the house..somewhere...(haven't looked for it for years, but I know I have it!)...

There were instances in CO & KS whereas the governors issued arms to state militias and ammo with federal approval, but they were billed for it. The post war military was on a shoestring budget until after the LBH when the public demanded an end to the hostile "question." The RR's managed through graft & corruption to obtain some arms as well and most were returned as junk. These were Spencers & some 1st Model Alin conversions in .58 Rimfire.

My point is that the vision many have of hordes of buffalo hunters & settlers getting free ammo not unlike welfare today is entirely wrong.

Offline bear tooth billy

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2011, 08:35:42 PM »
I bought a 45/70 first and then got a Shiloh 45/90 when I really got into long range shooting. After a trip to adobe walls, Dodge City,
etc. I decided to rebarrel the 45/70 to a 16lb 50/90 mainly just for histoical purposes. I dableb with paper patch bullets without much
success and then ordered a Paul Jones mould and wow it shot about as good as the 45/90.  The recoil will get your attention 650
grain bullet, but I've fired 25 rounds in under 10 minutes at an ncows buffalo shoot. As an old west fan that my favorite is the
buffalo hunting era, if you walked into Zimmermans hardware in Dodge City in 1874 looking for a buff gun you probably would
have gotten a 16lb big fifty. I shot a 1500 lb buff with the black powder 50/90 and it just doesn't get much better than  that.
Whatever your choice, have fun with it!!!!!!
Born 110 years too late

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2011, 09:31:23 PM »
Thanks again, gents.  My first inclination had been the 50-90, and that still looks pretty good.  As I said, I'm mainly after the historical experience and I kind of like heavy recoil--the sore, bruised shoulder just reminds me that I've been shooting. 

I'm still a ways away from being able to afford it and 50-90's don't come up on the used market very often, so I'll keep dreaming and reading. 

Ranch 13--I'm sure I'll be in your neighborhood again sometime before I'm ready to order.  I'd love to sit down and talk rifles sometime. 

Any further comments are most welcome!

CC Griff
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Offline Ranch 13

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2011, 09:48:37 PM »
CC Griff ,give me a holler when you're headed this way.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline Grogan

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2011, 12:07:20 PM »
I was of pretty much the same mindset as you in this regards.

In my case I was fairly well aware of what rifles the Buffalo hunters used and had access to.

My thinking was that most serious hunters, by the time they had enough experience to order their 2nd rifle, used big rifles in the 14# to 16# class and early on chambered in the Sharps .50 2-1/2" case and later in .45 2-7/8" .

Being that I was already set up for loading and shooting big .45s, that's what I really wanted.

However having already waited for 5 years for my 1st Shiloh (in .45-70) had left me gunshy of wanting to order one that took "longer".  (I know, they don't take that long today, but for the HB models, maybe?)

But on a trip that took me across Montana, a stop in Big Timber was "a must".

Stopping by Shiloh I didn't see anything that really caught my eye.

However, down the street, they had a wall of "ready to go" '74 Sharps rifles, and there sat that HB model in "plane Jane" configuration that I could just see as "the tool" a Buffalo Hunter would have wanted.

Trouble was it was a "Big 50".  Of course I knew about these, but wait.  What about the logistics?  Yeah getting the supplies for one of those in the early 1870s might not have been a big deal, when you bought what you wanted for your rifle FROM Sharps.  But what about now?!!

It is a jump.  And there ARE differences.  And "stuff" ISN'T as easy to locate and buy as it is for anything .45 Rimmed caliber and under.

Hmm...I'll have to take that under advisement.

So I go on my trip and I think about seeing that big Sharps.  And it keeps eating at me..."Do I, or not?"  This keeps eating at me.

Then I figure, "If it's still there when I go back through, I'll make my move."

Heading back towards home I once again pass through Big Timber.  I stop and check.  There it is.  O.k., it's a done deal.

The day before in Miles City I'd seen this.



An original, pretty much the same rifle, but this one in .45 2-7/8"

And here, sitting on the wall I'm looking at this



It's sitting there, saying to me, "Take me home with you!"

So we walked out the door together.  The friendly folks at C. Sharps Arms were able to set me up with much of the stuff I needed to switch over to loading .50 cal rimmed cases.

Once at home it took me ~2 months to locate and acquire the rest of what I needed to be able to cast bullets and size them, obtain a supply of .50-90 brass and a few other sundry items.

After all was said and done, it shoots GOOD (doesn't kick too much), is FUN to shoot, gets LOTS of attention when I take it out to shoot, and it's fairly authentic.  ;)

Regards,
Grogan, SASS #3584

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Offline Willie Dixon

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »
wow, nothing better than a Sharps, made in America, and in "big-50" ;D  that's a beautiful rifle you have there.  My favorite is hands down, the basic, clean business model.

Any chance of information on that tang sight you're using?  It looks more military than the usual peep sights.  I like the bigger sight picture, even though I know it can mess up accuracy at the crazy long ranges.
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Offline JimBob

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2011, 06:18:50 PM »
Thanks again, gents.  My first inclination had been the 50-90, and that still looks pretty good.  

CC Griff

LOL I've found my first inclination to always be the best one.Go for it.Those big uns' surely do attract attention on the range regardless of what everybody else is shootin' that's for sure. ;)

Offline Grogan

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2011, 02:13:37 AM »
The Tang Rear Sight is a replica of Sharps' early model "Sporting Rear Sight", which is period correct for this rifle and the time the Big 50's would have been introduced.

There were 2 versions; this version with the sliding Sight Bar and a later version (I have that Staff also) that has a round sight disk that's adjustable for elevation and locks by tightening the disk.

These were made by Carmen Axtel's "Riflesmith" company that I think has been absorbed by Shiloh.  I don't think that Shiloh has continued to produce these sights?

Axtel's made great replicas of all the BPCR sights by most of the original makers.



BTW, the Full Buckhorn Rear Sight would not have been period correct for a Big 50 Sharps.  

Rifles of that vintage would have come equipped with the Lawrence Rear Sight, which isn't an option from C. Sharps Arms.

Trying to be period correct (in addition to the fact that the Full Buckhorn Rear Sight blocks out much of the target when the Sporting Rear Tang Sight is set in the 200-300 yard height) I acquired the correct style sight and it's mounted on the rifle now.

Regards,
Grogan, SASS #3584

Frontiersman: The only category where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s. -Canada Bill

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2011, 10:00:31 AM »
Thanks, Grogan, for your story and photos.  Your rifle is pretty much what I have in my mind at this point, but I have quite a bit of saving to do before I could afford it.  I'm not jealous.  Really.  Well...maybe just a little jealous.

CC Griff
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Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2011, 10:15:24 AM »
I have enjoyed everyones posts on this subject.  I recently ordered a Shiloh thru Bill Goodman.  It took about 5 months to get it built.  It is a #1 Sporter, 30" Standard Heavy Full Octagon, with a patch box in 50-70.  I ordered it with the thought in mind it would look somewhat like a military rifle that had been converted to cartridge.   I have not had the opportunity to shoot it much, but it shoots pretty well and is a whole bunch of fun.

Is the Lawrence Sight, Grogan spoke of in his post, the one pictured in Grogans post or is it a different one.   

2nd question what is the correct rear sight if the full buckhorn is not correct?

JR
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Offline Grogan

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2011, 11:04:42 AM »
If you look closely at this photo of an original Sharps Buffalo Rifle, you'll see that this later one, in .45 2-7/8", has a Full Buckhorn Rear Sight on it.

I think the Lawrence style Rear Sights were supplied on the earlier vintage rifles (perhaps getting rid of Civil War stock?), while later you could get the Full Buckhorn style.

In my particular case the main reason for switching had a lot to do with the tall horns on the Buckhorn blocking out the target when using the Peep Sight at closer ranges.  The small sighting notch on the Buckhorn is way down at the bottom of the sight and those tall horns block out lots of light as well as the target when using the Peep sight.  ;)


 
Regards,
Grogan, SASS #3584

Frontiersman: The only category where you can play with your balls and shoot your wad while tweaking the nipples on a pair of 44s. -Canada Bill

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: "Typical" Buffalo Rifle?
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2011, 12:30:20 PM »
As the replies taper off, let me once again thank those who posted.  Your responses were very informative and helpful, not to mention interesting.  Thanks!

CC Griff
Manager, WT Ranch--Coal Creek Division

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