Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1876 => Topic started by: DrummerBoy on December 30, 2022, 02:27:09 PM
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GREETINGS from New Orleans,
Drummer Boy here, with a dream.
The worst whipping I ever got was when I was seven. Dad had taken us to Sears and turned us loose while he looked for some bolts. After me and little brothers got run off from sitting on the saddles, so I went over to the guns! The sales guy was right in the middle of showing me the finer points of that JC Higgins 30-30 when Dad walked up…now Dad had been in the middle of the Marche Hotton line during that December in 1944 and probably had some of that undiagnosed PTSD…he was Safety Crazy!! Well, the resulting corporal punishment only cemented my love of Lever Guns!!
At this point I’ve managed to get ahold of two Cimarron carbines in 45-60 and 50-95, and just now TWO 28” BARRELS on 40-60 and 45-75…I got the barrels because I want all four calibers (curses on you and your book, Duke Venturino!!) but guns in 40-60 and 45-75 seem to have dried up. I need a plan for this….also I have this compulsion to learn all about using those hand loading pliers…like that campfire scene in Blazing Saddles, but loading ammo instead of breaking wind….just thought I’d let y’all know where I’m at in case anybody has some advice!
Semper Fi
Fred
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Congrats! I still need a 45 75 to catch up with you. :P
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Good on ya, Great start. I just have the 40/60 yet to get. Was the 40/60 ever made in carbine form?
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMoD4dupo_WZUbZTQEhZFEkGUnDnu4gHHWpfyYq5WwzmNg?cn=THISLIFE&res=small&ts=1669063536)
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As far as I know, Uberti only makes the full stock carbine in 45-60 and 45-75. Some people might call the short-barreled 50-95 Presidio a carbine but it is a short rifle.
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That's what I call mine, a short rifle. Same with the 45/60, 22" barreled short rifle.
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Thanks All for the input!
I’ll try to be more precise in my nomenclature as soon as I learn it all ;)
Soo.. I have the “Mountie Model” in 45-60 and what Cimarron calls the Presidio in 50-95
And recently I got a couple of 28” octagonal barrels (only) in 40-60 and 45-75. I got those two barrels as parts because I don’t think they’re made any more “but” Uberti tells me they’ll both screw into any ‘76 receiver…not the most efficient way to go about it, I know…
As I mentioned I’m ABSOLUTELY fascinated with the hand loading “tongs”! I just got a pair for the 32-20 WCF and I can’t stop fooling with it! I’ve got a dragoon pistol and I’m crazy about that too…slow as heck….the yank..ahh..Federal Troops would be long gone by the time I got ready but you sure get a feel for the process…other than speed, what’s the downside??
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... I’ve got a dragoon pistol and I’m crazy about that too…slow as heck….the yank..ahh..Federal Troops would be long gone by the time I got ready but you sure get a feel for the process…other than speed, what’s the downside??
If you are a foot soldier, that dragoon is going to weigh you down! ;)
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King my two short firearms resemble yours pretty closely. I’m fixing to sell an old guitar that I have to finance a long 1876 and some reloading equipment, if I can sort out some appropriate “tongs” and dies….Abilene you’re right on the money wrt lugging this Dragoon around but I love the boom and the tone the plate makes!! :D
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Never sell old guitars! Sell something else.
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Thanks King! What was I thinking!!?!
Well, I got a bag of 40-60 brass from Graf and some .406 coated projos…the minimum in The Venturino book…my barrels came in from Cimarron today, so maybe the ball is starting to roll…..need primers and Pyrodex and hopefully a pair of Ideal “pliers”will show up…All I gotta do is set up a vise and a “twenty-four” and change barrels on this Presidio…what could be easier??!?
8)
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Don't rely on what Mike's book say's your bore is, slug it yourself to be sure. Personally I wouldn't use Pyrodex either. Powder Valley has Swiss FF in stock, get that. https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/swiss-black-powder-2fg-1/
I don't know how to change a barrel, but I'm betting just swapping barrels isn't to be just that simple. Keep us updated.
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King, Thanks for the note! I’m sure you are correct in thinking I’m just at the tip of the iceberg! Please excuse my cavalier way of addressing these issues, it’s my way of whistling in the dark!
Semper Fi,
Fred
PS if anyone knows how the thread design on a Uberti 1876 barrel base compares with the Winchester original please sound off!
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Pretty sure uberti barrel threads are metric and will not interchange with Winchester. What length of barrel did you get? The Presidio is a 20" barrel, and will likely not line up with a 28" stock or tube connections. Something to measure before you take off the barrel.
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At this point I’ve managed to get ahold of two Cimarron carbines in 45-60 and 50-95, and just now TWO 28” BARRELS on 40-60 and 45-75…I got the barrels because I want all four calibers (curses on you and your book, Duke Venturino!!) but guns in 40-60 and 45-75 seem to have dried up. I need a plan for this…
Semper Fi
Fred
DrummerBoy,
During a conversation with a friend on this same topic, he brought up another factor in these types of reworks. That is ... you will need the specific caliber brass lifters for each respective barrel. Or you will have to cut a smaller caliber lifter to the larger 45-75 casing.
Hope this helps.
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DrummerBoy,
During a conversation with a friend on this same topic, he brought up another factor in these types of reworks. That is ... you will need the specific caliber brass lifters for each respective barrel. Or you will have to cut a smaller caliber lifter to the larger 45-75 casing.
Hope this helps.
Well your friend was wrong in the case of the '76. All calibers use the same carrier (and breech bolt). In the case of the '73 then yes, there are two carriers (disregarding the .22), one for .357 and .32, and one for .38-40 and larger, plus the bolt is different for large and small bore as well.
When in doubt, check the parts lists at VTIgunparts.com
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Abilene,
So, you are saying that a 40-60 casing in a 50-95 lifter would not flop around and chamber easily or that a 50-95 casing would not be too large in diameter to fit in a 40-60 lifter?
PS -- I did try a 40-60 casing in my 45-60 lifter, it did fit; did not float around a lot; and did feed. But this was gentle movements.
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Abilene,
So, you are saying that a 40-60 casing in a 50-95 lifter would not flop around and chamber easily or that a 50-95 casing would not be too large in diameter to fit in a 40-60 lifter?
PS -- I did try a 40-60 casing in my 45-60 lifter, it did fit; did not float around a lot; and did feed. But this was gentle movements.
Hi BRS, no I'm not really saying that it won't flop around. I have no idea, it might. But Uberti does use the same carrier for all '76's. I don't know if original Winchesters were the same size (some did have the caliber stamped on the bottom of the carrier but I don't know if the sizes were different). Just like Winchester used a smaller carrier for 32-20 (of course they did not make a .38/.357 so they still only made two sizes, one for .32-20 and one for the larger calibers) with the '73 but Uberti uses the .38/.357 carrier for the .32's and they do flop! They feed fine, though, except for the first round (last round loaded) which is often at quite an angle and needs to be straightened.
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Gentlemen,
I am very grateful for all the feedback!! I have studied the exploded drawing and accompanying parts list extensively (extensively for me…) and spoken on the phone with the nice fellow at VTI…I didn’t notice any alternative carriers in the same presentation as the drawing that indicated four barrels, but I don’t have any idea who created the drawing/list I was looking at..what I was hoping for was an order number for part number “1”….the receiver/frame! Well, it seems that Uberti won’t sell that particular part. Maybe I can print one for a ghost 76 LOL!!
In other news I made a stab at determining the rate of twist in the barrels I have..I loaded up a cleaning rod with patches and put a duct tape flag on..shoved it in till I got a quarter turn ( x4..) …now in all 4 barrels I got a quarter turn in 6 inches more or less…I did this several times with each barrel and the result was more or less the same…this “data” ,such as it is, is quite different in some cases from what’s published…I can’t be too far off in my method cause I did 3 or 4 swipes on each barrel ant the flag started turning smoothly right away…..
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I measured the twist in my 40 60 a couple weeks ago and it's 1 in 22. I believe all of these uberti '76's are all twisted far faster than the originals...not sure why they would do that.
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So we can shoot heavier bullets.
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Exacta-mundo!! In a way this ROT increase makes Pondoro Taylor’s concept of a heavy for caliber bullet possible especially for the 50-95…even with a 450 plus slug there’s enough room in the case to really make a pretzel out of that little bolt..
Is there a way to calculate the “safe” limit of the system? Uberti does seem to have made a .44 magnum on the 73 chassis…
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So we can shoot heavier bullets.
I'd just as soon shoot what the old guns did. Although the fast twist did pull my bacon out of the fire with my 40 60.
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I looked at one too many hotrodded flathead ford v8 motors with the Offenhauser heads manifolds and headers as a kid, I’m afraid…I need a formula to calculate bolt thrust..and whatever other forces are involved…not actually trying to make an AK 500..just going for a heavy bullet
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Is there a way to calculate the “safe” limit of the system? Uberti does seem to have made a .44 magnum on the 73 chassis…
Yes! Stick with Black Powder! Or if you must, Start low with smokeless powders, Trail Boss, 4198, such like powders. Read the threads on Loading for the 50/95, 45/75, 45/60, 40/60, it will tell what you need to know.
The more I shoot mine, the more I like shooting Black Powder. Kinda a hassle to clean the brass, but cleaning the rifle itself is easy. Soap and water with a patch.
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Okay so today was a red letter day for me: took the 50-95 Prasidio and the 45-60 Mountie Cimarron carbines to the range with some store bought ammo from Steinel. My biggest concern was whether or not my rifles and this ammo would actually match up.
Wish I could import a pic of the last target at 50 yards.
I was shooting off my elbows sitting at a concrete desk, 5 shot string from both rifles
NO KEYHOLES! At least at 50 yards. Very mild recoil in both cases…5 inch group for the 45-60, 7 inch group from the 50-95….I liked the sights better on the 45-60. I wasn’t using any form of rest other than my elbows, so I blame me for the groups.. the target paper was two 14”” roundels, one atop the other. Both rifles shot about 9 “ higher than point of aim at 50 yd
The Cimarron carbines and the Steinel ammo do well enough for me!
I’ll try to figure out how to upload a piccie!
Semper Fi
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when I ordered mine (late 2013) Uberti were advertising the winchester (slower) twist in all calibres, except the 45/75 which was a 20 twist.
Dont know if that was the truth at the time but am sure it was what the advert said. Looks like they changed things since then?
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I looked at one too many hotrodded flathead ford v8 motors with the Offenhauser heads manifolds and headers as a kid, I’m afraid…I need a formula to calculate bolt thrust..and whatever other forces are involved…not actually trying to make an AK 500..just going for a heavy bullet
Winchester blew up a 76 under test and several years ago a feller blew one ("Shrapnel" we used to see his posts occasionally) - from the pictures and descriptions both those guns blew out the bottom of the barrel where its thinnest, ie just ahead of the chamber and where the cutout for the magazine tube is on the underside - the toggle link actions and bolt held on both guns. In the winchester test apparently one or both sideplates were blown off - we wouldnt knpw whether that was the action stretching OR gas from the rupture coming back through the magazine tube into the action.
Winchester actually loaded ammo for the 45/75 with a 450 grain PP boolit over 90 grains of powder.
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Howdy Mr GreyHawk thanks for your notes! As I mentioned to King, my words are a lot more cavalier than my actions ( and my thoughts are too weird to publish)..safety, to be clear is paramount. My method of exploring twist was to take a short cleaning rod, load it up with snippings from a cleaning rag, stuff it in the muzzle and then push until the duct tape flag went thru a quarter turn…repeated several times to get an average plunge then multiplied by four….seems like around 22-ish for both 45-60 and 50-95
I was happy ( considering my relatively ignorant status) with my shots at 50 yards just cause they weren’t tumbling and all went near to the same spot. Today I ll try at 100 yds. I’m using the Steinel ammo that Cimarron sells but I would like a heavier bullet than their 350 in the 50 and 300 in the 45
More Later
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Howdy Mr GreyHawk thanks for your notes! As I mentioned to King, my words are a lot more cavalier than my actions ( and my thoughts are too weird to publish)..safety, to be clear is paramount. My method of exploring twist was to take a short cleaning rod, load it up with snippings from a cleaning rag, stuff it in the muzzle and then push until the duct tape flag went thru a quarter turn…repeated several times to get an average plunge then multiplied by four….seems like around 22-ish for both 45-60 and 50-95
I was happy ( considering my relatively ignorant status) with my shots at 50 yards just cause they weren’t tumbling and all went near to the same spot. Today I ll try at 100 yds. I’m using the Steinel ammo that Cimarron sells but I would like a heavier bullet than their 350 in the 50 and 300 in the 45
More Later
I thought they might have changed the twist rates - woulda made sense to me - US shooters seem to have an obsession with shooting heaviest boolit they can get - (maybe the latest fad after "hard cast") anyway I went to the 2022 Uberti catalog the advert says 50/95 twist = 1:48, 45/60 twist = 1:40. 45/75 twist = 1:20 - they dont list a 40/60 anymore and the whole 1876 advert is squeezed into a corner - would not surprise me at all if they drop it from the lineup this year or next-- glad I have my 76 safe and sound and super glad I got the 45/75 - mine shoots a 335g, 405g, and the 460 g postel/ money boolit all do well over blackpowder - have shot a pointy 500 3R LEE in it too (good results at closer ranges - gets the wobbles somewhere out past 400 if there is any wind)
I wonder did they (Uberti) think this through - a 20 twist 45/60 using smokeless and heavy boolits ? maybe they didnt want to encourage that? ditto the 50/95 with a 500+ grain pill and a dose of smokeless --------- or did they just follow the winchester catalog?
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Thanks for the note!!
Well, I had read all the catalog notes myself, and saw the same data you did, and made up my mind that ROT wasn’t going to rule my world: the charisma of the 76 comes from its peculiarities more than it’s perfections… I still feel that way! Most pressing issue on my agenda is to beg borrow or steal two more 76’s in whatever caliber still available in order to Mount these 40-60 and 45-75 barrels to….
Semper Fi
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Thanks for the note!!
Well, I had read all the catalog notes myself, and saw the same data you did, and made up my mind that ROT wasn’t going to rule my world: the charisma of the 76 comes from its peculiarities more than it’s perfections… I still feel that way! Most pressing issue on my agenda is to beg borrow or steal two more 76’s in whatever caliber still available in order to Mount these 40-60 and 45-75 barrels to….
Semper Fi
Same here ---I just HAD TO HAVE a 45/75 ---original 1876's are extremely rare in our country and I had missed on three in 45/75 over my lifetime plus the unique "look" of that round - so when I ordered that was what I got - only became aware of the twist issue later ---if there is an "issue ? " -- I would be quite happy shooting any of these in their original configuration ( a 50/95 throwing a 350 grain boolit at 1500FPS+ is not something to be sneered at)
just because we read it in their catalog dont mean its the gospel truth either - thats an advertisement designed to put our hard earned $ in Aldos pocket - somebody may have forgot to change the specs ? if they made all those barrels in 20 twist would make a lot of sense from a manufacturing, inventory, supply chain point of view.
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GREETINGS from New Orleans,
Drummer Boy here, with a dream.
and just now TWO 28” BARRELS on 40-60 and 45-75…I got the barrels because I want all four calibers (curses on you and your book, Duke Venturino!!) but guns in 40-60 and 45-75 seem to have dried up. I need a plan for this
Semper Fi
Fred
Drummer Boy,
Can I ask! Where or how did you get ahold of a 40-60 barrel? I am totally interested in getting a 40-60 rifle but like you stated they have dried up; they are not being produced any longer and no-one is offering their's for sale.
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GreyHawk THANKS for the interest! In scrutinizing the Cimarron website I found a parts for sale section. Lo and Behold, they had both barrels on there, so I called my favorite sales person and ordered them! They showed up on my doorstep three days later, 28” octagonal barrels one on 40-60 and the other in 45-75, both dovetailed for sights and notched for the extractor, and threaded! Even a slight curvature machined out of the bottom face to accommodate the mag tube! VTI or Midwest might have one..
Best,
DB
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DrummerBoy,
Thanks for responding, I already tried VTI but no luck there.
This barrel replacement is a better idea than trying to find a complete 40-60 for sale. Especially after Abilene clarified the lifter/carriage issue I thought existed. I almost did the same thing when looking for a 38-40 rifle last year.
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Hey Black River Smith,
Thanks for the note and I apologize for the name mixup!
Best,
DB
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I believe all of these uberti '76's are all twisted far faster than the originals...not sure why they would do that.
For those of us that shoot the 50/95, the original rate of twist for that caliber was 1:60.
With a rate of twist that slow you would be extremely limited with respect to the bullet weights you could use (not much heavier than 300 grains).
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For those of us that shoot the 50/95, the original rate of twist for that caliber was 1:60.
With a rate of twist that slow you would be extremely limited with respect to the bullet weights you could use (not much heavier than 300 grains).
They were intended as express rifles back in the day, light bullet and fast FPS.
and relatively short range. Dangerous soft skinned game at close range. the old factory loads used 300gr bullets.
The bullet I'm shooting goes about 330gr. I'm glad I don't have to shoot anything heavier.
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They were intended as express rifles back in the day, light bullet and fast FPS.
and relatively short range. Dangerous soft skinned game at close range. the old factory loads used 300gr bullets.
You needn’t type your fingers to the bone in an attempt to share info on the history of the Winchester 1876, the cartridges for which it is chambered and why Winchester used the rates of twist they used to me or the majority of the regular posters here.
We did our homework many years ago and are quite familiar.
With respect to Uberti and Chaparral updating the rates of twist for some of the calibers they offer in their reproduction 1876’s; it has certainly made it easier for some of us to get useable accuracy with a wider range of bullet weights/bullet lengths and smokeless powder.
5 rounds out of my Chaparral short rifle with 1:48 twist using .515 diameter 450 grain bullets H4198 powder at 100 yards (velocity was just short of 1300 fps)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvMRbzPN/C997FD94-C42A-4AE2-AC8C-624B3D2D98F0.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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You needn’t type your fingers to the bone in an attempt to share info on the history of the Winchester 1876, the cartridges for which it is chambered and why Winchester used the rates of twist they used to me or the majority of the regular posters here.
Thanks for the spanking. ::) Obviously, many don't understand the importance of twist rate and the '76, including Uberti.
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(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMqNFsIqKSUPJcxbhTJ1UTbUV7ntXQOewWgszVPDOQPWWw?cn=THISLIFE&res=small&ts=1673794860)
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To those in this thread who might be interested, I happened to notice that Buffalo Arms has a Cimarron .40-60 1876 for sale. https://www.buffaloarms.com/model-1876-centennial-40-60-wi-ca2502.html
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You needn’t type your fingers to the bone in an attempt to share info on the history of the Winchester 1876, the cartridges for which it is chambered and why Winchester used the rates of twist they used to me or the majority of the regular posters here.
We did our homework many years ago and are quite familiar.
With respect to Uberti and Chaparral updating the rates of twist for some of the calibers they offer in their reproduction 1876’s; it has certainly made it easier for some of us to get useable accuracy with a wider range of bullet weights/bullet lengths and smokeless powder.
5 rounds out of my Chaparral short rifle with 1:48 twist using .515 diameter 450 grain bullets H4198 powder at 100 yards (velocity was just short of 1300 fps)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvMRbzPN/C997FD94-C42A-4AE2-AC8C-624B3D2D98F0.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
just love the way that steel plate actually bled when you shot it ! ;D
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just love the way that steel plate actually bled when you shot it ! ;D
Yep I think he killed it greyhawk . Every time I see that picture , makes me want to go out and clang the iron .,,,DT
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Well, for whomever might be interested, DrummerBoy hisself here with some new acquisitions toward the “All Four” goal. I now have brass in all four calibers. As a neophyte I just do what comes easiest for the time being. 45-60 and 50-95 in cowboy loads from Steinel, 40-60 from Graf (Jamison) and now 45-75 that Mr Palazzo at Ammunition Artifacts makes from Starline 50 Alaskan. Obviously I’ve shot the rounds from Steinel so they work … all I can do at this time is drop the 40-60 and the 45-75 into their respective barrels which I did and both drop right in…more rigorous testing to come
I did manage to get the three-die legacy sets for the 45-60 and the 50-90..I know that it’s possible to get the Lyman 310 in every caliber except the 50, but who knows when that’ll turn up…lastly I’m gonna try to slug all the bores with some of these 54 caliber Hornady balls…..”Slowly We Turn, Step by Step”……
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…..SLUGGED my two loose barrels today…my first effort at it:
Did the 40-60 first. Went to the ACE and got some calipers and wood dowels, put bore butter down the muzzle and on a Hornady 464 musket ball, set the barrel on a roll of toilet paper and started tapping on a section of dowel…left a big ol lead ring on the muzzle and got a relatively nice little slug..measured 12/32 with my cheap calipers..I have some Acme .406 250 grain bullets and they measure 12/32 as well so I’m grossly in the .406 ball park for my groove diameter…seems I need a .407 or .408 to seal this particular bore…also looks as if CH4D has a die set..
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…..SLUGGED my two loose barrels today…my first effort at it:
Did the 40-60 first. Went to the ACE and got some calipers and wood dowels, put bore butter down the muzzle and on a Hornady 464 musket ball, set the barrel on a roll of toilet paper and started tapping on a section of dowel…left a big ol lead ring on the muzzle and got a relatively nice little slug..measured 12/32 with my cheap calipers..I have some Acme .406 250 grain bullets and they measure 12/32 as well so I’m grossly in the .406 ball park for my groove diameter…seems I need a .407 or .408 to seal this particular bore…also looks as if CH4D has a die set..
That's what mine measures, .406
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THANKS Roosterman! I’m really feeling my way on this and it’s good to get some feedback!
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I am thinking someone needs to buy, borrow, or steal a 1" micrometer! I would never work off fractions to measure a bore diameter.
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Mr Williams,Thanks so much for your concern. Im sure your remarks are well intended…However, the extrapolations derived with the aid of my tin thingamajig did show me that I’m roughly in line with Venturino’s spread of .406 to .410 published for several Winchesters in 40 caliber…as well as Mr Pearce’s article exploring Italian 40 caliber reproductions…there’s a ghost of a chance I’ll look for a bullet larger than .406 now..probably no bigger than .408…
BTW my 50 cal slug and my Steinel ammo are both just a RCH shy of 17/32..Bigger than .515 smaller than .531..now in this case, Venturino got .508 off an original and Miller got .514 off a new repro? But my Steinels make round holes at 50 yards…I mashed all my oversized lead balls down the spout with a wood stick..so my conclusion is that one gathers information from various sources, couples that with empirical data to establish the working zone and then relies on the physical characteristics of 20:1 lead to make up the difference…I’m not sure that Ideal ever made a digital loading tong…
Many Thanks Again,
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Hello all,
In other news I managed to get my 45-60 NWMP and my 50-95 Prasidio out to the 50 yard range today, great day for it!
Well, I’m not shooting them too well, but if I stay out of their way, they certainly hold up their end!!
At 50 yards both of mine shoot high. My bull was about 14” and I ended up shooting both below 6 o’clock..the 50 ended up grouping around 2 o clock and the 45 was around 7 o clock..
But both DID group!! MY ability to get sight alignment and sight picture is a work in progress as is my learning of the triggers, but I WAS getting 3-4” clumps of 3-4 shots.
I was using Steinel ammo store bought from Cimarron..300 grain in the 45 and 350 in the 50. Advertised at 1350 fps….3 flyers apiece …guns AND ammo are better than me!!!
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I don't have a 40/60, yet, but I did have to put a taller front sight on my Presidio. A Marbles 41W if memory serves. Brought the POI right up to bullseye at 50 yards. I don't much care for the stock front sights on any of my 76's, have replaced them all with Marbles.
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I don't have a 40/60, yet, but I did have to put a taller front sight on my Presidio. A Marbles 41W if memory serves. Brought the POI right up to bullseye at 50 yards. I don't much care for the stock front sights on any of my 76's, have replaced them all with Marbles.
I'm getting ready to change out all of mine to an ivory or gold bead.
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Roosterman and King Medallion THANKS for the responses, comments and advice!!
Now for a somewhat repetitious but still controversial topic:
The 73/76 toggle action:
It took me awhile and a lot of scrutinizing pics and drawings, but it seems that the toggle action is the only Winchester where the finger lever swings on a stationary point. All subsequent are on a plate that hinges down. Makes me wonder if all the Browning actions are mainly to get a long cartridge angled up into the chamber. Further, the weakest point in ALL of the designs seems to be where the barrel screws into the receiver…not any more steel in one than the other. Finally, ALL the actions “lock” against t the receiver frame one way or another..except the 88…..where are the shear and bending moment diagrams LOL
Just Scratching my head….
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FURTHERMORE (heh-heh), I just watched this tremendously entertaining video from Kentucky Ballistics I wherein the moderator blew up a “Henry Brand” 45-70 with a massively overloaded cartridge:
It was the chamber that actually let go, possibly the true Achilles Heel of the tube fed lever action rifle, possibly not ANY action design
…..
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I would also add that I prefer the 1/16th bead on my sights. I think, for me, that the 3-32 size bead takes up too much space in the rear sight. And, don't hit me, I'm contemplating a fiber optic front sight. Eyes are not what they used to be.
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Gotta keep shooting’
Gotta keep ding in’
Gotta keep food on table and lead on target !! (ftp://Gotta keep shooting’
Gotta keep ding in’
Gotta keep food on table and lead on target !!)
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Just scored a set of Lee 40/60 dies. Guess I best look for a rifle now.😁
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Just scored a set of Lee 40/60 dies. Guess I best look for a rifle now.😁
Thats the hard part!
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Roosterman and King Medallion THANKS for the responses, comments and advice!!
Now for a somewhat repetitious but still controversial topic:
The 73/76 toggle action:
It took me awhile and a lot of scrutinizing pics and drawings, but it seems that the toggle action is the only Winchester where the finger lever swings on a stationary point. All subsequent are on a plate that hinges down. Makes me wonder if all the Browning actions are mainly to get a long cartridge angled up into the chamber. Further, the weakest point in ALL of the designs seems to be where the barrel screws into the receiver…not any more steel in one than the other. Finally, ALL the actions “lock” against t the receiver frame one way or another..except the 88…..where are the shear and bending moment diagrams LOL
Just Scratching my head….
It is true that Browning designed his lever action rifles to handle the longer cartridges (except for the M1892, which was scaled down to handle the cartridges that the toggle link rounds were designed for.) Sure, you can blow up any rifle with the wrong smokeless loads. But the M1886, with slight modifications in the bolt face and the angle of the locking lugs, was capable of handling the .33 WCF and the .348 WCF, and the M1895 was even chambered for the .30-06 (although the '95 was springy enough to elongate and shorten the life of the cartridge cases if the brass was reloaded more than a few times). John Mose knew what he was doing. I don't know if he knew or cared about shear and bending moment diagrams. He just knew how to design guns so they worked reliably. Guns of his have come and faded into history...except, of course, for the M1911 and the M2 "Ma Deuce" .50 caliber machine gun.
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Faded into history, you say? Uh, ok. :P :-X
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Howdy King,
Congrats on sourcing the 40/60 dies!!
DrummerBoy
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Howdy Mr Trailrider,
Thanks for your input!
DrummerBoy