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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1873 => Topic started by: Severo Gallegos on April 09, 2021, 03:56:28 AM

Title: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on April 09, 2021, 03:56:28 AM
I have just purchased the 1873 miroku 357 short rifle, took it to the range and put some rounds through it. When I was cleaning the rifle afterwards I noticed there are some small scratch markings on both sides of the inside of the receiver, close to the chamber. Do anyone know if this is something to be concerned about? Should I take it back to the store or is this normal for a factory new rifle?
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Coffinmaker on April 09, 2021, 09:49:09 AM

Those "scratch marks" are left over from the machining process.  Based on the position of the tool marks, they will pose no problems to the operation of the rifle and I'd just ignore them.

Stay Safe Out There
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: ira scott on April 09, 2021, 10:50:08 AM
Not trying to start an argument with the gunplumber, but, those do not look like machining marks to me, they look like the result of some hand finishing with a file or something?  Agree they will not cause any function problems. It's pretty on the outside isn't it?

B.N.Scotty
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on April 09, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
Thank you for helping out. I almost suspected it could be something like that, due to the fact that both marks are positioned in the same way on each side of the chamber. And yes its pretty on the outside, and furthermore seems to function flawlessly with both 357s and 38s so far.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Buckaroo Lou on April 09, 2021, 01:22:30 PM
Are you talking about slight vertical scratches where the brass lifter moves up and down and makes slight contact with the sides of the receiver? If so mine has the same thing and I believe are caused by the lifter making slight contact with the receiver. Not a problem.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on April 09, 2021, 03:27:58 PM
Yes thats precisely what Im talking about. Youre probably right those markings are caused by the lifter. On the other hand, why is it that the markings dont go all the way up and down? They only go about as far as the diameter of the chamber, why is that?
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Abilene on April 09, 2021, 07:56:57 PM
I don't think a brass lifter will scratch a steel frame.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on April 09, 2021, 11:34:08 PM
Youre right it shouldnt. The positioning of the markings suggests they are from the machining process.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Buckaroo Lou on April 11, 2021, 12:02:09 AM
My receiver is CCH and the slight scratches are caused by the slight contact of the lifter moving up and down and slightly scratching the CCH on the inside of the receiver. They are not machining marks. It is really more akin to rub marks but they sort of look like scratches. They are not deep but just surface scratches or rub marks. Could be dust particles or a little grit gets between the lifter and the inside of the receiver, but they are definitely marks caused by the up and down movement of the lifter and not machining marks. They are only in an area the width of the lifter and no where else in the receiver and are not a problem.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Abilene on April 11, 2021, 01:23:57 AM
I think Buckaroo Lou is talking about different "scratches" than others.  Specifically that maching process was threading the frame for the barrel.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Coffinmaker on April 11, 2021, 02:13:35 PM

IF looking closely, the marks referenced aren't "scratches."  they are small "gouges" from a miss-aligned or chattering machine tool.

Brass does NOT scratch or dent steel.

Stay Safe Out There
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Buckaroo Lou on April 11, 2021, 02:26:14 PM
I specifically asked the OP in a previous comment if he was referring to the marks left by the up and down movement of the lifter and he immediately replied in a following comment that was precisely what he was talking about. I suppose there can be and sometimes are marks left on the inside of the receiver when it is threaded for attaching the barrel and that may be what he is actually referring to. In either case they are not a problem.

Here are a couple of photos of the marks I am referring to. Looks like surface rub or scratch marks to me and they are caused by the up and down movement of the brass lifter. They are not gouges nor are they deep scratches but they are surface abrasions caused by the lifter. Possibly could be dust particles that get trapped between the lifter and receiver.

 
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: DeaconKC on April 11, 2021, 02:36:09 PM
Buckaroo Lou, that is terrible! All those mean ol' scratches. You need to send that gun to Deacon's Home for Scratched Rifles. I will care for it.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Abilene on April 11, 2021, 02:38:32 PM
I specifically asked the OP in a previous comment if he was referring to the marks left by the up and down movement of the lifter and he immediately replied in a following comment that was precisely what he was talking about. ...

Right.  But still a failure to communicate, I think.  Because he did also mention earlier that the scratches were only the width of the chamber, plus there were no arrows in the pic to pinpoint it.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: greyhawk on April 11, 2021, 08:41:54 PM
I have a Miroku made Browning model 71 - (bought late 1980's I think) - the external finish was superb - internal machining and finish ? I would say second rate considering the external looks and price paid.
Seems like the factory focus has not altered much in thirty years. ? 
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on April 12, 2021, 05:24:18 AM
Yes it was those gouges that I was referring to, sorry about misreading your question Buckaroo Lou. Anyway, I dont feel that those gouges bother me at all now when Ive understood they dont interfere with the function of the rifle.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on April 12, 2021, 12:32:20 PM
I have one more question, would it be a good idea to wipe off the factory grease from the toggle link action parts and lube it with gun oil, or should I just leave the factory grease as already applied?
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: degoins on April 13, 2021, 06:24:54 AM
I'd leave it.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on April 17, 2021, 07:06:13 AM
I have discovered this long scratch mark in the toggle link as seen in this photo. I think that it looks like just a scratch on the surface, what do you think? Should I be worried? Is it possible that it is a fracture?
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Coffinmaker on April 17, 2021, 11:20:45 AM

 :)  S Gallegos   ;)

Just scratches.  Nothing to be concerned about.  However, I built Competition Toggle Link rifles for CAS for over two decades.  When completing an "Action Job" where the customer wished a basically stock action, I polished the sides of the Links.  A very FLAT surface.  220 Grit Wet/Dry, scrub the links in a figure eight.  When they look nice, same arrangement only using 1000 Grit Wet/Dry to get a mirror finish.  This is done as the link often rides against the inside of the side plates.  Rough surfaces create drag.  Often the inside of the side plates displayed machine marks that could be felt.  I also polished those marks out.  It DOES make a difference.

Also, Polish the sides of the Bolt Lug (rear of bolt) and eliminate any sharp edges.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on April 17, 2021, 12:48:44 PM
Thank you for helping out! I was getting kind of worried. That's a good suggestion to polish the sides, I'll probably do that.
Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 17, 2021, 06:13:58 PM
:)  S Gallegos   ;)

Just scratches.  Nothing to be concerned about.  However, I built Competition Toggle Link rifles for CAS for over two decades.  When completing an "Action Job" where the customer wished a basically stock action, I polished the sides of the Links.  A very FLAT surface.  220 Grit Wet/Dry, scrub the links in a figure eight.  When they look nice, same arrangement only using 1000 Grit Wet/Dry to get a mirror finish.  This is done as the link often rides against the inside of the side plates.  Rough surfaces create drag.  Often the inside of the side plates displayed machine marks that could be felt.  I also polished those marks out.  It DOES make a difference.

Also, Polish the sides of the Bolt Lug (rear of bolt) and eliminate any sharp edges.

I actually do that to my rifles but just to add I only go to around dull 220 sandpaper on the side plates. I guess it could be the side plate or the links. When lubing and rubbing them across another mirror surface it feels no different or even maybe easier to slide. I think the reason and my theory of this is two mirror surfaces actually stick to one another.

For example when I am preparing knife bolsters to attach to a blade I have them so flat they will actually stick and pick one another up. The fine scratches left in the grooves of dull ridges actually are carrying lube to slide across the mirror finish mating surface, think of it like the frosting on the ways of a mill or lathe. Those surfaces are frosted on purpose to carry lube.

I'm sure this makes no measurable difference in the feel of working the action but it's just one of the anal little things that comes from my limited machinist background.

Title: Re: New miroku 1873 owner question
Post by: Severo Gallegos on June 10, 2021, 02:26:20 PM
This is what the bore looks like after around 150 jacketed rounds and some cleaning with ballistol. Im guessing thats some copper fouling here? Is this normal on a new rifle?