First time out with new Vaqueros.....HELP!!!!!!!!!

[Rusty Silver SASS# 58957 (aka Trumpet)]

Alright,
So I finally get to go to the range today and test out my SASS guns (Ruger Vaqueros, 5.5" Stainless, .45LC and Marlin 1894CB). Marlin was great! Then I get the Rugers out. First one was OK, smooth, but fired about 3-4" left of point of aim at 25 yards with Winchester 250 gn factory "Cowboy" loads.

Then I get the second one out. I fire off 6 rounds. Nothing on target.

Another six.

Nothing.

Turns out that they're hitting the first target on the left! At least a FOOT to the left! Now what?! Am I completely hosed? Do I send 'em back to Ruger? I was planning on eventually sending it off for trigger work, light bead blasting etc. If I do, can a good smith fix this problem? Who should I send 'em to? Lee's Gunsmithing (aka Ringo), Cody Conhager, Nate Kiowa Jones? What do I do? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rusty (thoroughly freaked out and disappointed) Silver

[FloraBama Kid]

Before I did anything I would have someone else shoot them to see if they get the same results. If you get the same results I would send em back to Ruger. I can't remember if it is Ruger or Marlin that has some troubleshooting tips on their web site but you may want to check it out also.

Take this in stride Pard, those Rugers will get straighten out and give you some great shooting down the road.

[J.D.Cayhill]

What FBK said, and if the other shooter has the same results you know there is a problem. If your smoke wagon has to go back, Ruger has excellent customer service. It might help to send a target you have shot with it. Ruger makes a great product but no one is perfect. Just hang in there and it will get staightened out.

[Advertising]

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Consider the pile-on complete!
Let at least one experienced CAShooter take a turn with your pistolas.  See if they can dial it in for ya.

Good luck,

[Standpat Steve]

Howdy, Rusty Silver

If you would have to wait awhile to let some other shooter of known and respected accuracy ability shoot your new brace of Rugers, try this. Take them out and shoot them weak handed-mirror image of how you shot them the first time. If they shoot to the same place as your first targets, then they need to go back to Ruger with copies of the targets. Sometimes I even take a gun I know shoots okay with the same ammo, and shoot it both left & right handed to make sure I'm not developing some new bad habit.

Sorry your first outing wasn't more satisfying . . .

[Silver Creek Slim]

Are you shooting the pistols with one hand or two hands? To me it sounds like you are shooting one handed with you right hand and are jerking the trigger which causes a pistol to shoot left and low. I know this from experience.  But, dry-fire helps to cure this tendency.

Slim

[Shiloh Sharpie]

Are you shooting the pistols with one hand or two hands? To me it sounds like you are shooting one handed with you right hand and are jerking the trigger which causes a pistol to shoot left and low. I know this from experience.  But, dry-fire helps to cure this tendency.

Slim

I guesss he only jerked the trigger on the one pistol? or missed with one pistol only.  Give this person some credit!!

[Silver Creek Slim]

Are you shooting the pistols with one hand or two hands? To me it sounds like you are shooting one handed with you right hand and are jerking the trigger which causes a pistol to shoot left and low. I know this from experience.  But, dry-fire helps to cure this tendency.

Slim

I guesss he only jerked the trigger on the one pistol? or missed with one pistol only.  Give this person some credit!!

Alright,
... Then I get the Rugers out. First one was OK, smooth, but fired about 3-4" left of point of aim at 25 yards with Winchester 250 gn factory "Cowboy" loads.

Then I get the second one out. I fire off 6 rounds. Nothing on target.

Another six.  Nothing.

Turns out that they're hitting the first target on the left! At least a FOOT to the left! ...

Rusty (thoroughly freaked out and disappointed) Silver

Both pistols shot to the left.

Slim

[Rusty Silver SASS# 58957 (aka Trumpet)]

Alright,
I just got back from the range again. I went with the intention of having the RO shoot it. But I thought I'd put some through 'em first. As predicted, the "good" Vaquero was dead nuts on. I fired at 15, 25 and 75 feet, offhand, fairly rapidly. I was shooting at an SR-C hi power rifle target (9 ring is 12.5", 10 ring is about 7" and "X" ring is about 2.5"). Even at 75 feet, realtively rapid fire, my only "flyers" were three shots in the 9 ring.

Then came the "bad" Vaquero. Same drills etc. Turned out well!!! at 15 and 25 feet everything was in the "X" and 10 rings. At 75 feet, most were in the 9 and 10 rings with a "flyer" in the 8. I figure at 75 feet offhand, rapidfire a flyer 6" to the left is a hell of a lot better than a "group" 2 feet to the left! Only thing different was that today I was shooting off hand, whereas Saturday was benched.  Guess it was my bench "technique" (or lack thereof)?

Elevation was good on both Vaqueros.

Is this considered "Acceptable" accuracy from these guns?  I'm more used to "tactical" Bolt action rifles (1" @ 200 yards etc).

Thanks
RS

[Doc Shapiro]

Those groups are just fine.  When sighting in a pistol, you need to do it the same way you are going to shoot it in situation.  A benched gun will print differently than one held.

Doc

[Standpat Steve]

  Yeah, 1" @ 200 yds is okay for SASS shooting, but we usually only see that with the 7.5" bbl Rugers.

[Marauder]

Makes me wonder if it was technique or if there was a little burr somewhere that wore off as the gun broke in.

Anyway, glad they are working well!

Then general guideline is 2 inch group at 25 yards is very good.  3 inch groups are good for most guns.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Interesting question Marauder.  Was it mechanical or technique?
When I began shooting CAS, I had been shooting bottom feeder semis most of the time.  My accuracy when shooting the SAA was less than steller.

It has taken me a bit, but now, I know how to shoot CAS pistolas.. took a bit of getting used to..
Adios,

[Sidewinder Sills]

I had the same problems when I joined SASS. I had shot semi-autos for years and the big Ruger Vaq's that I bought felt like hand cannons. Now the problem is reversed. Took a Berreta Model 96 in .40cal out to the range last week and couldn't hit a thing. Been so focused on CAS that I haven't shot anything else for the last 18 months...

[SIR WILLIAM]

I lean towards sympathetic nerve jerking.  The Rugers need almost nothing but durability mods.  I think the bench technique was at fault.  You predicted and anticipated the recoil.  That caused the lousy accuracy.  When you relaxed and shot them informally,  the flinch vanished.  I tend to leave Ruger trigger/hammer interfaces alone.  They are pretty well off from the factory.  Wolff springs DO make a noticable difference.  The timing can be optimized.  The best thing for Rugers is the Belt Mountain locking (non-Keith #5) base pins.  It improved accuracy and I didn't worry about the factory base pin creeping out.  I prefer Gary Reeder for Ruger work.  www.garyreedercustomguns.com  You can adjust your fit also.  There are a myriad of grip choices and frame types to consider.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Where was your finger on the trigger? the meaty part should be on the trigger, if if it was in the first joint, that's maybe what went wrong. i know they will usualy go left and low with the lighter bullets( been there, done that). I had the same problem with one of my 38-40 EMF's when I benched them to test some loads. One shot nuts on, the other took out the one side of the screen! Now, mind you, I've been doing SA's for seven seasons . have no idea what was up, but there you have it. Only difference in those two are the triger pulls, one is extremely light( for me). Will probably take them to my smith this winter and get them matched up. this year, they've got two clean matches to their credit shooting duelist. Go figure!.........Buck

[Matthew Duncan]

You’re shooting right-hand, anticipating the BOOM so you’re jerking the trigger and not squeezing the trigger with the tip of your finger?

Now you're getting use to the BOOM and stopped flinching?

Do your still have the same problem if you use your left hand?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Pardon me for piling on.

Here's my technique for figuring out where a new pistol is shooting first time out. It doesn't have to be a brand spanky new just out of the box pistol, just new to me.

First of all, I appreciate all of the learned pards who say you should shoot it just like you're going to shoot it in a match. I humbly disagree. If I want to know how intrinsicly accurate the pistol is, I'll shoot it two handed sitting at the bench with the my hands resting on sand bags. I understand the pistol will behave differently off sandbags than it will in my hands, but I want to know how intrinsicly accurate the pistol is, not how accurate I am. Waving around at the end of my arm while I'm standing will not show the pistol in it's best light. If I had a machine rest, I would take my first shots out of that and completely remove the human element.

I start out close in. Not at 25 yards. Reason is, if the gun is terrible, you want to know where the bullets are hitting. Farther away you need a bigger piece of paper to see where they're hitting. I usually start out right at SASS distances. About 25 feet or so. At my range we use cardboard target holders and they are big enough to hold six targets, 3 across the top and 3 across the bottom. I put up all 6 targets and butt them all up together so there are no gaps. That way I've covered the whole cardboard with fresh paper, and if any of the guns are really way off I'll be able to se where they're hitting.

I know I don't have to belabor everybody in how to pull a trigger, but just as a reminder I'll mention that rapid fire is not a good way to see how accurate an unknown pistol is. Find out where it's shooting first. Be sure you are pulling back with the pad of the trigger finger, not the crease behind the knuckle. Squeeze slow enough that you really don't know when it's going to go off to avoid flinching. After just a couple of groups like this, you'll have a good idea of where the pistol really shoots. Then you can repeat it at longer range if you want, or start shooting the way you really do in a match. But first you need to know where the gun is shooting all by itself.

This Cowboy's Humble Opinion

[Mule Clanton]

   I dunno pardner---but I did the same thing with exactly the same guns six months ago and those Vaqueros are right on----they are in fact the deadly duo---let someone else shoot them to make sure it isn't something you are doing---how about your dominant eye---check to see which of your eyes are the dominant eye---it sound to me as if it is a dominant eye problem according to your results and problems.

[Hylander]

I will agree 100% with Driftwood.
Ya' need to know how the Pistol does by itself before you put
human error in the mix.