Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Whitehorse Lane on August 04, 2021, 12:38:23 PM
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Yes, I really do have friends... ;D
Stop laughing Copperhead, you know I have a couple...
A lady in my office has a husband she wants out of under her feet sometimes, he is a WW2 Collector
He has a Number 1 Mark 3 Enfield, would this be suitable for expansion era shoot in any way?
I read the guidelines on the GAF site, it expressly says NO in "Victorian Period", but there doesn't seem to be anything on "Expansion Era"
He has expressed an interest in our local Indiana muster maybe later this month.
I told him I would ask
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I will of course defer to the expertise of Col. Drydock, but I think that a No.1 Mk III Lee-Enfield would be ideal for Expansion Era shooting.
The initial "Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield" (SMLE) was introduced into British military service in 1903, and its definitive Mk III version came along in 1907. (Although now commonly referred to as the No. 1 rifle, that re-naming of the SMLE did not actually happen until 1926, so until well after WWI the older terminology is most appropriate, historically.)
I have used a SMLE rifle in Expansion Era competition ...
Of course, the most appropriate companion handgun would be a Mk I to Mk V Webley revolver, although if I am not mistaken the Mk VI version (not introduced until 1915) is accepted ...
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Everything Jack said. ;D
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In addition, having an expansion class in the main match can be a useful thing to encourage participants in early days.
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......Tod, you know the rifle won't be an issue for our locals. Does he have the proper ammunition? We've already discussed mixing the timelines. If he's really interested, not just the weapons but the possibilities for a uniformed portrayal are wide open as well.
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Reminder: he does not HAVE to have a uniform to shoot. General cowboy is fine.
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Reminder: he does not HAVE to have a uniform to shoot. General cowboy is fine.
.....ha, yeah, like the NCOWS shoots, newcomers don't need much. Get'em to come and shoot first. Then pique their interest in the rest.....
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Fwiw you will find the expansion regulation on this forum, in one of the child boards at the top of the page.
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.....ha, yeah, like the NCOWS shoots, newcomers don't need much. Get'em to come and shoot first. Then pique their interest in the rest.....
ironically... Robert, the hood you saw over by the old car trailer, the one I've been saving for "sighting in".. it came off his crown vic...
With a name like Sterwerf I told him a Mauser and a Pickelhaube might be more appropriate.
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With a name like Sterwerf I told him a Mauser and a Pickelhaube might be more appropriate.
....you will open up a can of worms. That EEM 1916 timeframe, if I read correctly pertains to the North American continent. What about other nations, including Canada. Many were deep into the Great War by then. Not wishing to see helmets and gas masks. Yes, GAF regulations do address this. They were in use by this time. On a sidenote, I recently acquired a slew of photos of a great Uncle on my maternal grandmothers side. The photos have dates between 1912-1919. Over the winter I'm going to seek out his service record. An 03 Springfield, DA Army and an OG outfit may be in my future..
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... if I read correctly pertains to the North American continent....
NO!
The GAF honors ALL nations militaries, even through the EEM.
...Not wishing to see helmets and gas masks. Yes, GAF regulations do address this. They were in use by this time...
We chose the 1916 cut off date because the research we were using at the time indicated helmets and gas masks weren't in COMMON use yet. NOT because we didn't want to include other nations.
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While my wife disagrees, I think a pickelhaube should be regular wear.
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NO!
The GAF honors ALL nations militaries, even through the EEM.We chose the 1916 cut off date because the research we were using at the time indicated helmets and gas masks weren't in COMMON use yet. NOT because we didn't want to include other nations.
Jerry, I understand, the key word being "common"! Putting together a simple outfit for the man with this Mk 3 Enfield consisting of a uniform, ammo belt, softcap/hat, easy task. If he wants, for our local matches he doesn't need it. He could choose between, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, those are the easy ones. Not wanting to start a war, lol.....do enjoy a spirited give and go! For me, the appeal was putting together the outfits with the shooting being a bonus..
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Jerry, I understand, the key word being "common"! Putting together a simple outfit for the man with this Mk 3 Enfield consisting of a uniform, ammo belt, softcap/hat, easy task. If he wants, for our local matches he doesn't need it. He could choose between, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, those are the easy ones. Not wanting to start a war, lol.....do enjoy a spirited give and go! For me, the appeal was putting together the outfits with the shooting being a bonus..
Sorry If I sounded like I was starting a war, but we had a former member who was very upset that we would include other nations and I wanted to be completely clear that we include and honor other nations, including (but not limited to) our former enemies and allies.
Not wanting to start a war, lol.....do enjoy a spirited give and go! For me, the appeal was putting together the outfits with the shooting being a bonus..
+1 except that the uniforms were the bonus for me. Although; I guess if I'm honest, I guess I'm something of a clothes horse. I can do impressions for all the periods from the Civil War up through and including Viet Nam with arms and uniforms.
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.....no, thought maybe I had started the war! I mentioned to Dewayne before we ever started our merry little band. Opening up the timeline to the expansion era might draw out some WW1 guys to come out and actually use their weapons. I too, reenacted for a long time. What got me shooting, I had an issue with a pistol which led me to meeting one of my neighbors. Who just happened to be one of the best gunsmiths in my neck of the woods. That introduced me to another whole world of people. Starting NCOWS shooting with Trapdoors, SAA's and BP. Then finding interest in GAF among that group. Another journey of discovery began.
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For what it's worth, I've done an Australian Light Horse impression with an SMLE. I don't think I have any pictures, but there may be some in some of the old threads.
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I remember having a few drinks to the US of OZ Light Marine Horse that evening. Ducks may have been involved . . .
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.....now this hilarious......we discuss NOT wearing helmets, gasmasks and such, since my wife works PT at a local orchard, I'm drinking my morning coffee and perusing YouTube videos. What comes up? Someone shooting a GAF EEM, wearing a German picklehaube lol! Gotta appreciate the irony......
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I see you have met Herr von Masterton. Handy man with a Luger.
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.....now this hilarious......we discuss NOT wearing helmets, gasmasks and such, since my wife works PT at a local orchard, I'm drinking my morning coffee and perusing YouTube videos. What comes up? Someone shooting a GAF EEM, wearing a German picklehaube lol! Gotta appreciate the irony......
Of course that IS a little different as are these;
(https://imageshack.com/i/pnQ4xET4j)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pmj0gDfDj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pmAYM8Suj)
;) :D
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The ideal "Lee-Enfield" bolt action rifle for GAF use - Main Match or Expansion Era - is, of course, a "Long Lee" - i.e. either a Magazine Lee-Metford (introduced 1888) or a Magazine Lee-Enfield (i895) ... or one of the carbine versions of same if you're not keen on overly lengthy rifles ...
;D
Here are my rifles - the only significant difference between the two is the pattern of rifling ...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1000x322q90/923/IqCmIn.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/960x348q90/922/MM1BFN.jpg)
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Sarco has Picklehalbs for under $60 I would grab one in a min if I could find a WWI era 98 mauser. Guess I could make do with my 92 or 95 in 7 mm but one likes to be reasonably correct. Even have a Luger pistol albeit an American Eagle Made my Mauser.
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For what it's worth, I've done an Australian Light Horse impression with an SMLE. I don't think I have any pictures, but there may be some in some of the old threads.
Wow what kind of horse did you bring??
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If you've seen me, you know that no self respecting horse wants to be ridden by me. I'll just have to stay dismounted, except for our wooden horse. (Besides, it's really difficult to find an Australian Waler here, or maybe anywhere!)
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The ideal "Lee-Enfield" bolt action rifle for GAF use - Main Match or Expansion Era - is, of course, a "Long Lee" - i.e. either a Magazine Lee-Metford (introduced 1888) or a Magazine Lee-Enfield (i895) ... or one of the carbine versions of same if you're not keen on overly lengthy rifles ...
;D
Here are my rifles - the only significant difference between the two is the pattern of rifling ...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1000x322q90/923/IqCmIn.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/960x348q90/922/MM1BFN.jpg)
The Long Lee is an AWESOME rifle!
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Sarco has Picklehalbs for under $60 I would grab one in a min if I could find a WWI era 98 mauser. Guess I could make do with my 92 or 95 in 7 mm but one likes to be reasonably correct. Even have a Luger pistol albeit an American Eagle Made my Mauser.
The Pickelhaube was originally designed in 1842 by King Frederick William IV of Prussia. So the 92 or 95 would both work well with the pointy headed thing. On the other hand the Luger didn't show up until 1908, I would worry more about using either style of the Reichs revolver as a main match handgun. If your doing an officer you could use a 1896 Mauser Broomhandle.
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Sarco has Picklehalbs for under $60 I would grab one in a min if I could find a WWI era 98 mauser. Guess I could make do with my 92 or 95 in 7 mm but one likes to be reasonably correct. Even have a Luger pistol albeit an American Eagle Made my Mauser.
You might look for a Colombian Mauser. They're a GEW 98, but in .30-06. You probably already load for that.
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.......well, if nothing else this thread sparked some conversation. I'm just postulating here, could one participate in the EEM in pre-WW1 OG's using a Krag and Colt SAA as a National Guardsman? Using the documented premise that has always been the plague of the NG. That they could be saddled with obsolete or unwanted Federal castoffs. I've read a couple instances where it alludes to some NG units still using Trapdoor Springfields into the 1930's.. I'm still planning on adding both a proper 03 Springfield and a post 1900's DA revolver to my arsenal in the future.
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Because of the bayonet redesign, Krags remained in service until 1907/08 with the Army. Marines kept the krag until well into 1911.
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Because of the bayonet redesign, Krags remained in service until 1907/08 with the Army. Marines kept the meat until well into 1911.
.....thanks Chuck. I didn't write it down but I recall reading somewhere. That a few Krags even made it to Europe. Those being with supply and support units far from the front. Similar to WW2, how long did the 03 Springfield remain in service with some units?
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For some reason my phone keeps trying to substitute "meat" for "krag".
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For some reason my phone keeps trying to substitute "meat" for "krag".
.....yes, whatever spellcheck program that they have on the newer devices is annoying. I thought I had turned it off, I was wrong. If I don't proofread everything. I look dumber than I am. Not sure some of my buddies would believe that to be possible, lol.....
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I’ve got to get out to one of your events some day. Would enjoy seeing the picklehaubs [love a good pickle] as much as seeing the firearms. Not sure if this was a Wild Bunch match or a BAMM. My take on a Punitive Expedition outfit. Waiting for the beep. The other trooper is Chance.
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......pulled this from a militaria site. Texas NG pre 1916. The one soldier 2nd from the left appears to be carrying a Colt SAA.
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Yep, and in a Mexican loop holster. I think the 2nd from the right with his hand on his revolver might be packing some form of S&W top break as well. Most likely a New Model #3.
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Yep, and in a Mexican loop holster. I think the 2nd from the right with his hand on his revolver might be packing some form of S&W top break as well. Most likely a New Model #3.
.......the site I pulled that from, "the US Militaria forum" had like 51 pages of pre 1916 photos. Pretty much means my suspicions were correct regarding uniforms, accoutrements and arming of the fledgling National Guard prior to World War One. Though much improved, still wasn't much different than state militias of the 19th century. Looks like a generic Guard impression could be dressed in any outfit post Span Am war to current issue in 1916 or a mix of whatever combination of clothing/accoutrements/weapons were available. This is a photo they had of Indiana Guardsman, no date was available.
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didn't write it down but I recall reading somewhere. That a few Krags even made it to Europe.
IIRC A friend of mine (the guy that makes the Iron Trooper) has a photo of American troops in France carrying Krags
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Jerry, I understand, the key word being "common"! Putting together a simple outfit for the man with this Mk 3 Enfield consisting of a uniform, ammo belt, softcap/hat, easy task. If he wants, for our local matches he doesn't need it. He could choose between, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, those are the easy ones. Not wanting to start a war, lol.....do enjoy a spirited give and go! For me, the appeal was putting together the outfits with the shooting being a bonus..
Less than $100 would get him the WPG Boer War khaki uniform. It works going forward until 1916.
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Sarco has Picklehalbs for under $60 I would grab one in a min if I could find a WWI era 98 mauser. Guess I could make do with my 92 or 95 in 7 mm but one likes to be reasonably correct. Even have a Luger pistol albeit an American Eagle Made my Mauser.
Gew88 or kar88 would work. Turked Gew88s are fairly common.
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If you like the "khaki and campaign-style stetson" look of the pre-1916 US soldiers shown above, you can also pursue a similar British Empire impression, from just to the North of the Medicine Line ... as can be seen in these period photos of members of the several regiments of Canadian Mounted Rifles raised for South African service during the Boer War ... which can range from the rather natty appearance of the chaps in the studio portraits to the considerably more trail-worn look of the chaps photographed in the field ... note that each of them has the .303 Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle with which the bulk of the Canadian contingents were armed ...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/978x475q90/924/AfXHxc.jpg)
And here is a group of buglers of the Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry in South Africa ... note that they are also armed with nickel-plated .45 Colt Model 1878 Double Action revolvers, 1,001 of which had been acquired by Canada for service in the 1885 North West Rebellion ...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/900x707q90/923/KfRxJH.jpg)
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If you like the "khaki and campaign-style stetson" look of the pre-1916 US soldiers shown above, you can also pursue a similar British Empire impression, from just to the North of the Medicine Line ... as can be seen in these period photos of members of the several regiments of Canadian Mounted Rifles raised for South African service during the Boer War ... which can range from the rather natty appearance of the chaps in the studio portraits to the considerably more trail-worn look of the chaps photographed in the field ... note that each of them has the .303 Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle with which the bulk of the Canadian contingents were armed ...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/978x475q90/924/AfXHxc.jpg)
And here is a group of buglers of the Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry in South Africa ... note that they are also armed with nickel-plated .45 Colt Model 1878 Double Action revolvers, 1,001 of which had been acquired by Canada for service in the 1885 North West Rebellion ...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/900x707q90/923/KfRxJH.jpg)
.......British web gear, bandoliers, snake belt buckle and puttees. Some great ideas for impressions.
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.......British web gear, bandoliers, snake belt buckle and puttees. Some great ideas for impressions.
Although understandably looking rather "British", the uniforms and equipment used by the Canadian forces in South Africa had some significant differences from the kit of soldiers from the United Kingdom or elsewhere in the Empire ...
In addition to having its own pattern of khaki serge and drill uniforms (albeit quite similar to British patterns) Canada was the only part of the Empire to use the distinctive leather Pattern 1899 Oliver load bearing equipment ... most noticeable for the single large cartridge pouch worn, in most orders of dress, centered on the waistbelt in front. It was not the most practical design, as its normal load of 80 rounds of rifle ammunition made it rather "front-heavy" ... and of course it was very cumbersome if one needed to fire from cover or in a prone position, and was entirely unsuitable for the mounted infantry which ultimately made up the bulk of the Canadian contribution, in the form of several regiments of "Canadian Mounted Rifles". As a result, Canadian troops in the field, both regular infantry and mounted infantry, are usually seen with one or more bandoliers of rifle cartridges - either webbing or the Pattern 1888 leather bandolier I am wearing in this composite image, as well as being seen on some of the men in the photos posted above -
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/912x575q90/922/PklAIh.jpg)
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......some good stuff there. If my buddies friend decides to come play. You've given us some food for thought to guide him.
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If you or your buddy (or anyone else for that matter) has any thoughts of some sort of Canadian late 19th/very early 20th century impression, you should know that What Price Glory actually offer reproductions of various components of the Pattern 1899 Canadian Oliver Equipment.
Here's another dashing impression which would incorporate the Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle and Oliver equipment: the Yukon Field Force, a provisional unit of the Canadian Permanent Militia (consisting mainly of infantry, with a few cavalry and artillery added in) which served in the Yukon Territory 1898 to 1900, through the height of the Klondike Gold Rush.
A friend (sadly, now deceased) had a Cowboy Action Shooting persona of an Officer of the Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantr, serving with the Yukon Field Forse ... that is him on the right of the attached composite image ...
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.....thanks, yes this would more benefit those with the appropriate UK weaponry. WPG has done a good job with giving us impression opportunities.
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I have to echo what RsJ has stated. The WPG gear is good quality and a good copy. It makes a Boer war impression a lot easier. Also the WPG Canadian WW1 7 button tunic is pretty close to the Boer war Canadian wool tunic.
One of the harder parts of doing a Brit/Canadian/Empire impression is the rifle. Non Charger loading Lees are tough to come by and not cheap when found. A work around on that is building your own Lee Speed or Lee officers carbine.
https://www.rifleman.org.uk/Lee-Speed.html
There are plenty of bubba'ed SMLE's floating around to pick up. It would not be hard to make a passible clone since there were so many patterns. Not only did BSA make them but other British gun makers made custom rifles for officers.