Author Topic: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...  (Read 744 times)

Offline Snake Oil

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Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« on: January 16, 2022, 05:37:43 PM »
I have done some quick searching and have found a lot of different threads, but all are lacking a couple pieces I would like to see in simplicity...

I am looking to do 38 long colt heeled bullets... aiming for more period correct... I have an s&w 1899 in 38 military and two 1858 with Taylors conversion cylinders...

I have a hollow based mold from mp molds... outstanding mold, touchy and cull rate is unfavorable.  I am loading those up currently to test, but am finding I may not be very successful.

I have found Old West Bullet Molds
(https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop/ols/products/38-colt-mould-and-crimp-die-set)
I saw on another thread liquid alox as a lube option.

I'm curious if you get a conical mold and pan lube and then seat the bullet and then resize the whole case similar to the process listed by duelist1954 on YouTube would that crimp the brass into the lead and then give you an internal lubed bullet.  Is this an oversimplification or am I overthinking this?  I have read several threads that all seem to state the same thing over and over, so the lazy side of me came out to see if someone would respond to my query.

If this method works, then a cheap lee conical die is way cheaper than a custom mold.

Thoughts and help please!
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Offline Drydock

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2022, 06:56:02 PM »
Leave heeled bullet unlubed.  Size, prime, powder, seat bullet, then crimp with OWBM crimp die.  Then dip the bullet into a pan of melted lube.  That's it.  I use straight paraffin wax for heeled bullets.

 I think you are mixing up two different processes.  Hollowbase bullets are lubed and loaded conventionally.  Heeled bullets are loaded and lubed as above.

You cannot use a sizing die to "Crimp" the bullet.  It will swage down the bullet inside the case and leave it loose.

This video? 
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Drydock

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2022, 07:19:31 PM »
I use Accurate for most of my molds, with this being my go to .38 Heeled bullet https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-120C

But Accurate has a number of heeled designs.  A bit less pricy than OWBM, though you do need his crimp die! (I have 2 of  them, for 38s, and .44s) 
Civilize them with a Krag . . .

Offline Snake Oil

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2022, 08:22:19 PM »
Drydock to the rescue!!  Thank you sir!!

I had not found anything on the lubing of bullets and was not looking forward to lead issues, so thank you!! 

I had perused accurate earlier today... I will look at that mold again!  Mr. Bellevue has put out several videos, that is the third one I found today on heeled bullets... I sure appreciate officianados putting their knowledge out there, including yours Drydock!
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Offline AntiqueSledMan

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2022, 04:28:30 AM »
Hello Snake Oil,

I've been loading all my Cartridge Conversions with Black MX and non-lubed bullets.
Of course Black MZ is no longer available, but it's basically the same as American Pioneer Powder.
Also Shooters World has a product called Multi Purpose Black which is the same stuff.

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #5 on: Today at 10:07:23 AM »

Offline Baltimore Ed

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2022, 09:00:44 AM »
After seating i ran them upside down through my lubrisizer to crimp the case to the bullet and lube the bullet.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2022, 10:25:19 AM »

 :)  WOWZERS !!!  ;)

Thank You Thank You thank You Sled Man.  I've been wracking my feeble brain trying to remember who was now marketing the newly relabeled Black MZ.  Tiz Shooters World.  The formulation is a tad different though, "slightly" smaller granulation is reported.  Don't quote me on that, no personal knowledge of the granule size.

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Offline ndnchf

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2022, 06:05:32 PM »
I shoot a lot of heel bullets in .32, .38 and .44 rifles. My .32s I tumble lube in 50/50 JPW/alox, then seat and crimp them. The 38s and 45s I use an old time factory heel bullet lube, dipping the bullet after loading. They shoot very well. BTW, you can buy heel bullets from Bernie at Old West.  His heel crimp dies are great. I have 4 or 5 of them.
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Offline Hoof Hearted

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2022, 09:59:33 AM »
This has been a “sticky” here since March of 2018……SMH

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=41633.0
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Offline Snake Oil

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2022, 10:35:07 PM »
Also found this...

https://1858remington.com/index.php?topic=11283.0

This has the conical mold I was referencing, so I wasn't too far off, I believe it recommends sizing the bullet using a "pincher" sizer.

And the dipping of finished cartridge in lube of paraffin or otherwise fills the void I was trying to fill.

I really appreciate all the help!!
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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #10 on: Today at 10:07:23 AM »

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2022, 03:45:57 AM »
This has been a “sticky” here since March of 2018……SMH

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=41633.0

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Offline Snake Oil

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2022, 05:51:12 AM »
I realize powder coating is a fad, but wouldn't that be an acceptable "lube" (not a lube but a coating that would reduce lead fouling) alternative fo heeled bullets?

Though the addition of a "shell" to the bullet would Chad its dimensions therefore would probably not allow it to fit as nicely in the cylinder.
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Heeled Bullets - please don't call me lazy...
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2022, 09:05:50 AM »

 :)  Snake Oil  ;)

Referencing Powder Coating as a "Lube."   It's going to depend on your propellant.  Shooting powder coated bullets with that heathen Fad Smokeless may be well acceptable.  Shooting powder coated bullets with APP based Subs will work a treat since APP based subs require NO lube at all. 

Shooting Powder Coated bullets with Black Powder may be somewhat less than optimum.  Not necessarily a Harmonious outcome.  The powder fouling from Black Powder is cumulative and as firing continues, the fouling hardens severely and will completely fill the grooves.  The prime purpose of BP Lube is to keep the BP fouling soft enough to deal with.  While Powder Coat may (or may not) help with leading, is will not help with BP fouling.

The short answer is . . TA DA . .  Your stuck with using a lube.  Unless shooting APP based Subs.

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