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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => BOLD Chambers => Topic started by: J.R. Logan on November 06, 2008, 07:37:54 PM

Title: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: J.R. Logan on November 06, 2008, 07:37:54 PM
Public Right to Carry?

What are your feelings as Police/Ex-Police on the public right to carry?

Good

Bad

Only Police/Military should be allowed

Other

Just looking for info from the people in the know.

J. R. Logan
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Buffalow Red on November 06, 2008, 09:19:08 PM
the founding fathers thougt they had that covered till obama came along
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Leo Tanner on November 07, 2008, 01:16:22 AM
Folks have been tryin' ta chisel away at the 2nd fer years.  Some think you should be able ta protect the homestead but not yerself out in public.  Some folks think certain guns are OK an others aren't as technology in fire arms moves forward.  Some think we shouldn't have any guns.
     I'm not in Law Enforcement but what it all comes down to is responsability.  Plain and simple.  If you can't protect yerself against a criminal who doesn't give a damn about the law in the first place, what good are all the gun laws to begin with.  The slime will get there hands on them one way or another.  I believe we should be able ta at least keep it even between us and them.  Just so long as we are responsable.


Leo (average citizen)
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: panhead pete on November 07, 2008, 05:04:48 AM
Howdy All,

I am retiring from the Air National Guard 28 November.  We used to carry a Beretta 92 G mostly for anti Hijacking when I was flying C-130's as an Engineer.  The two words people have really NOT spoken about are "FREE STATE".  Written only 10-11 years after the revolution, the Forefathers knew an armed society was needed for
A. the Militia, we had no standing army.
B. So the government would be held in check by armed citizens.  They knew power was all corrupting and provided this right for that reason.

Regards,

Panhead
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Black Powder on November 07, 2008, 12:39:48 PM
Problem is that what the founding fathers thought was adaquate to keep the government in check will no longer work.  In the worst case senario, no legal firearm is going to be much use against tanks and full auto comin' your way.

Hopefully the new regime will be too busy breaking their campaign promises to mess with our 2nd amendment rights.  Plus, they don't have a fillibuster-proof majority to do anything at the national level.

Hope springs eternal.

BP
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Will Blastem on November 07, 2008, 07:18:16 PM
Howdy All,

I am retiring from the Air National Guard 28 November.  We used to carry a Beretta 92 G mostly for anti Hijacking when I was flying C-130's as an Engineer.  The two words people have really NOT spoken about are "FREE STATE".  Written only 10-11 years after the revolution, the Forefathers knew an armed society was needed for
A. the Militia, we had no standing army.
B. So the government would be held in check by armed citizens.  They knew power was all corrupting and provided this right for that reason.

Regards,

Panhead

That says it all...Well said, Panhead...Goodbye ;)
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Ten Wolves Fiveshooter on November 07, 2008, 07:21:11 PM



                                                    ;) :D   Well spoken Black Powder  :D


                                                                tEN wOLVES  ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: panhead pete on November 08, 2008, 07:03:41 AM
Howdy Again Folks,

I guess seeing how hard it is to get our planes mobilized and off the ground, I think the army would have a tough time reacting quickly.  Getting tanks in position would be a lot tougher than you think.  Automatic weapons are tough but when people are fighting for their own turf, accuracy counts more than spraying power.   And I suppose lastly, very few military members would keep at the fight seeing their brethren fall.  Military folks have as much IF NOT MORE contempt for politicians as everyone else.  Did the soldiers & guards not turn their weapons during the Russian revolution?  I AM NOT preaching Revolution, but I HAVE heard a lot of other folks speaking aloud about it.  I am simply looking at it from a tactical perspective.

Happy Trails,

Panhead 
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Leo Tanner on November 08, 2008, 12:45:23 PM
Howdy Again Folks,

I guess seeing how hard it is to get our planes mobilized and off the ground, I think the army would have a tough time reacting quickly.  Getting tanks in position would be a lot tougher than you think.  Automatic weapons are tough but when people are fighting for their own turf, accuracy counts more than spraying power.    


That's the only reason we were able to take Normandy.  It should have been impossible.
     Just a thought.


Leo
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Black Powder on November 08, 2008, 01:42:57 PM
And I suppose lastly, very few military members would keep at the fight seeing their brethren fall. 

I'm not so sure, Panhead.  We managed to kill off 600,000+ of each other between 1861 & 1865.

I've got no problem fighting to defend my rights, to protect my family and property.  But my house would be the Alamo in no time, that's all I'm sayin'.

BP
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: panhead pete on November 08, 2008, 02:34:48 PM
Indeed Sir, Indeed!

Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: aryfrosty on November 12, 2008, 11:18:33 PM
One reason I enjoyed serving 25 years as a sworn Officer was that I cannot abide tyranny and bullying. My job, as I saw it, included standing up for the rights of all citizens as delineated in the Constitution. I believe in the right of citizens to carry firearms and go armed whenever and wherever they will. Perhaps, as one respondent spoke of, my handguns might not help against tanks and fully automatic firearms...but who's to say that they wouldn't. If I have a gun I'll fight with a gun against tyrants. If I only have a knife or spear then those are what I would use. If I don't have those articles then I will fight with a rock. No rocks? Then I'll gnaw 'em into submission. In New Jersey recently "laws" have been proposed to regulate martial arts practitioners. And in England common people can't even own a knife or sword.
But, one damn thing they'll never be able to regulate out of existence is the will to live free and the determination to stand up to bullies. I'll carry that to my grave and I'll leave a legacy of determination when I pass on.
Regulate that, Obama. I dare you.    ;D
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Leo Tanner on November 12, 2008, 11:37:30 PM
Tenacity is the corner stone of free society.  It's one of the most admirable traits one can hold dear.


Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Sam Hane on February 15, 2009, 01:01:08 AM
Public Right to Carry?

What are your feelings as Police/Ex-Police on the public right to carry?

* Good



Armed citizens have, more than once, saved the bacon of LEOs in this neck of the woods.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Utah Bob on February 17, 2009, 08:35:20 AM
I have always supported the right of citizens to carry firearms. 4 years in the Army and 30 years behind the badge.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: panhead pete on February 21, 2009, 01:21:07 PM
Afternoon Folks,

This is more on the lines of 2nd amendment, but.....
I had the great pleasure of seeing Lou Dobbs defend the second amendment on of all places CNN!!  He stated flatly that he supports our right to keep and bear arms!!  I rarely watch CNN, but the promo for the upcoming show was on a TV at the gym.  We got home in time to see the show.  I suppose he will end up on Fox like Glenn Beck did??!!

Happy trails,

Panhead Pete

PS, Monday I am going to try to get to the county Sheriff's to apply for my CPL. 
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Griff on June 27, 2009, 02:16:49 PM
Public Right to Carry?
What are your feelings as Police/Ex-Police on the public right to carry?
Good
Any other viewpoint is elitist and should be cause to have the office/badge taken.  If I have cause to fear the public I was sworn (retired in 2004) to protect and serve, I've probably been a little too heavy handed in my dealings with J.Q. Public.  I carry, sometimes... and not because of fear, but, rather I still feel the responsibility when I go into town... I live in the same area I patrolled.  All my neighbors know me as the "ex-Deputy", but if there's any animosity... I don't feel it.  And, while I busted a few heads in my day... I came VERY close to my training officer's admonishment... "ALWAYS have your contact end with the subject thanking you."  It works, and ain't near as hard as you might think.

My take on an old saw:
When the people fear their government (you're a representative of that gov't) you have tyranny; when the gov't fears (read "respects") the people, you have freedom.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Shotgun Franklin on July 06, 2009, 06:48:21 PM
Slaves have no right to keep or bare arms, citizens do.
We likely have a few to many laws as it is.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: aryfrosty on July 06, 2009, 07:20:58 PM
I completely agree with what Griff said above... There are some few places I don't carry concealed, but by and large I carry most of the time. I carry "retired" ID and keep a current  CC license, even though I can still carry legally without having one.  When I retired the chief told me that he knew I would never be able to walk away from anybody needing help and he is right. I knid of  look at it as if I carry a little pocket of safety around me no matter where I go. Makes me feel better at least.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Federalist on March 27, 2010, 12:47:47 AM
Yes, every law abiding American Citizen should be able to carry a firearm.

I encourage all my family, friends and neighbors to be armed, trained and legal. 

That being said, NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT A LARGE CALIBER HANDGUN.  Large calibers do not start with the number nine.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: delmar on March 27, 2010, 12:58:52 AM
Yes, every law abiding American Citizen should be able to carry a firearm.

Unless, of coarse your at a CAS event. In which case you can still carry, but your firearm must be empty. ???
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: 1SG Yoak on March 27, 2010, 10:41:13 PM
Unless, of coarse your at a CAS event. In which case you can still carry, but your firearm must be empty. ???

Which has nothing to do with the question, and more to do with the rules of the organization or the specific range. ALL of our local competition events are on a "cold range".

 I'm a "civilian" now, having retired a number of years ago, and lucky enough to be able to carry on HR218. Other than that, the people have a right to defend themselves and their family. What's the question?
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: delmar on March 28, 2010, 10:11:58 AM
Which has nothing to do with the question, and more to do with the rules of the organization or the specific range. ALL of our local competition events are on a "cold range".

 I'm a "civilian" now, having retired a number of years ago, and lucky enough to be able to carry on HR218. Other than that, the people have a right to defend themselves and their family. What's the question?

The question was...
What are your feelings on the public right to carry? I am a strong advocate for the right to carry. I carry when I go into stores, I carry when I go into a restaurant and sit down for a meal. I just happen to think it's a bit odd, that when I go to a gun range, to engage in a shooting competition, the first thing I am required to do, in the name of "safety" is to disarm!

So the question I am asking is...
What does it do to public perception when people find out that shooting  organizations such as SASS consider it "unsafe" to walk around a gun range, or sit around the clubhouse, with a loaded gun in your holster?
 
I do acknowledge the right of any shooting  organization or specific range to make there own rules and set there own agenda. I will also assert my right to challenge them to consider being stronger advocates for our God given rights, to self defense, as spelled out in the 2nd amendment!
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: 1SG Yoak on March 29, 2010, 08:42:59 AM
The question was...
What are your feelings on the public right to carry? I am a strong advocate for the right to carry. I carry when I go into stores, I carry when I go into a restaurant and sit down for a meal. I just happen to think it's a bit odd, that when I go to a gun range, to engage in a shooting competition, the first thing I am required to do, in the name of "safety" is to disarm!

So the question I am asking is...
What does it do to public perception when people find out that shooting  organizations such as SASS consider it "unsafe" to walk around a gun range, or sit around the clubhouse, with a loaded gun in your holster?
 
I do acknowledge the right of any shooting  organization or specific range to make there own rules and set there own agenda. I will also assert my right to challenge them to consider being stronger advocates for our God given rights, to self defense, as spelled out in the 2nd amendment!

Asked and answered. I carry all the time. I believe that everyone that can, should.

As for shooting competitions, I have no issue how they run their "safety". There are other considerations when gathering a number of people and loaded guns. Not everyone is a safe handling them as they should be, we know that. I think of it as back in the Old West when you had to leave your rig at the Marshal's/Sheriff's office before you enjoy the hospitality of the town. 
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: delmar on March 29, 2010, 08:24:27 PM
Asked and answered. I carry all the time. I believe that everyone that can, should.

As for shooting competitions, I have no issue how they run their "safety". There are other considerations when gathering a number of people and loaded guns. Not everyone is a safe handling them as they should be, we know that. I think of it as back in the Old West when you had to leave your rig at the Marshal's/Sheriff's office before you enjoy the hospitality of the town. 

Understood, do you not think the same arguments are a valid argument against public carry in general?
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: 1SG Yoak on March 30, 2010, 08:10:49 AM
Understood, do you not think the same arguments are a valid argument against public carry in general?

There are people that can't find their ass with both hands. I'm not sure I want to be close to them when they are exercising their rights. We have all seen the wild antics of newbies at the range. I hate regulations, but there should be some level of competency.

Afterall, we have to qualify every year.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: St. George on March 30, 2010, 08:45:30 AM
If you're going to carry - then you need to prove that you're capable of doing so.

Take the courses offered in your area and get certified - and re-certified and re-certified as time goes on.

'Prove' that you have the requisite maturity and sense of responsibility to be able to go safely armed and know what 'deadly force' means and how it 'will' impact your life if used.

As to a 'cold range' - all sorts of theoretically gun-knowledgeable people get hurt every year, playing around with 'un-loaded' firearms - some even die.

There's no place for this activity - yet it 'is' seen, so doing what can be done to eliminate this is merely prudent, insofar as the Range is concerned.

Ranges and using groups have to carry insurance - and insurance companies are just waiting to pull the policy, should there be any problem.

Respect the Range and the operating rules.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Lawful Larry on April 17, 2010, 04:42:31 PM
I  like being a citizen and not a subject.  After 26 yrs in the USAF and 17yrs with law enforement, I like this setup.

Now as to the difference of the range rules and walking the street.  Someone mentioned that we have to qualify each  year.  Well that puts us on a range again and it means safety rules.  I think we all understand the difference between a hot and cold range.  So what is the  difference in having safety rule on a SASS range? 

When I am  on a SASS range my mind is on shooting CAS and not reall life bad guys.  When I finish for the day on the  SASS range and get ready for the street, my mind is in condition yellow. 

I have been a state certified firearms instructor in Virginia for 15 yrs and I can tell you that cops are by nature some of the worst marksmans I have had the pleasure to be around.  To most of them the  gun  is a necessary piece of equipment.  Our success rate is in the area os 17% in gun fights (FBI stats). 

As far as safety violations, I have been swept more times on a police range then on a CAS range. 
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Shotgun Franklin on April 17, 2010, 06:13:26 PM
First, on a range you're under a slightly diffent situation than being out in public. I've never had a problem with a cold range as long as we treat it like it's a hot range.

Quote
If you're going to carry - then you need to prove that you're capable of doing so.

 Second, it's The Right To Carry. Just like voting, peaceful assembly, freedom of religon and all those other Rights. While I think that we should all practice and qualify, I really don't want any branch of the Gov't deciding who can exercise any Right based on a test or score. Now there are those who, for whatever reason (convicted felon, mentally defience, not a citizen as examples) don't have certian Rights, as a general rule we should all have the Right To Carry. Rights should be removed from those who prove they are not responsible enough to exercirse that Right or who have violated the Rights of others. Rights should not denied until you prove that you meet some Gov't requirement. Do you really want the Mayor of New York or a Senator from California deciding on the test you need to pass to exercise your Right to carry?
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: triple w on April 18, 2010, 10:38:03 PM
Food for thought, I think it goes much deeper than what We think.  >:(

http://la-gun.com/videos/torch/
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Federalist on April 23, 2010, 03:01:10 AM
Food for thought, I think it goes much deeper than what We think.  >:(

http://la-gun.com/videos/torch/

You are right, and thank you for the video.   :)
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: BlackHawkPaul on January 14, 2011, 03:44:06 PM
28 year retired fed LEO- I am totally Pro civilian CCW for law-abiding citizens with background check having been done to show no felony history. And, if anyone here thinks that the pols won't take away LEO retiree LEOSA carry and/or off-duty CCW rights for LEO's in a heartbeat if they have an inch of wiggle room, grow up and smell the coffee. Oh, yeah "We" are all in "This" 2A struggle together politically and had better NOT get arrogant against the civilian CCW. And I know several brethren cops who are arrogantly and naively against civilian CCW. I think they are nuts and argue with them ceaselessly because their argumnts are stupid.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Shotgun Franklin on January 14, 2011, 08:23:01 PM
Imagine that you have to receive training and be tested in order to vote. It might, given the right training and the right test give us better Voters. But suppose Obama is the guy setting up the training and the test. Wanna bet things will be better the next election.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: aryfrosty on January 19, 2011, 06:29:12 PM
If we have to depend upon ourselves and brother LEOs to ensure a stand against criminals we are in serious straits. We need to understand that the 2A right to carry applies equally to all Citizens whether LE or not. I am personally familiar with 2 cases where armed citizens have stepped in after LEOs were shot and ended a bottom feeder's career in crime. In my time as both working and retired LE I have learned to sincerely fear any LEO or politician who is against gun rights. They are the ones who endanger all of us.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: BiGStick on April 14, 2011, 08:58:44 PM
Their Hypocrisy, it seems, knows NO bounds...

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-guns-20110316,0,7963307.story

"Democrats who have voted to limit gun rights now want a special privilege for lawmakers. Three state legislators have coauthored a bill that would make it easier for California elected officials to obtain a concealed weapons permit. The surprising thing about this bill isn't just that it has appeared in California, which tends to favor restrictive gun laws, but that its coauthors are all Democrats who in the past have voted to limit gun rights for ordinary citizens. SB 610 was introduced by Sen. Roderick Wright of Inglewood, who in 2009 voted for a bill limiting the ability of residents from rural counties to use their gun-carry permits in large urban counties; another coauthor, Assemblywoman Cathleen Galgiani of Tracy, voted for the same bill. The third, Sen. Lou Correa of Santa Ana, voted for a Galgiani bill last year prohibiting the carrying of even unloaded firearms in the state Capitol."

These are the people Californians elected to lead them. This is why I could NEVER, EVER vote democrat.
Gawd, what a Bunch of TURDS!
 >:(
And, Yes, I am for public carry, as long as that person has a clean record and attends / passes a firearms safety class for that specific weapon.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Utah Bob on April 28, 2011, 09:19:32 AM
When the police do not support the citizens' right to bear arms, they become merely a tool of oppression. It ain't rocket science but it's too much for many politicians to wrap their pinheads around. >:(

From Sir Robert Peel's nine principles of policing:
Quote
2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Shotgun Franklin on April 28, 2011, 10:32:34 AM
Here's a thought, why not, about twice a year, have a range day where Officers/Deputies teach better gun handling to Citizens? In fact let Citizens shoot the Department course to evaluate themselves. If we, the LEOs, work with the Public and maybe establish contacts with them it could be a win-win situation, IMO.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Forty Rod on April 28, 2011, 10:45:42 AM
Here's a thought, why not, about twice a year, have a range day where Officers/Deputies teach better gun handling to Citizens? In fact let Citizens shoot the Department course to evaluate themselves. If we, the LEOs, work with the Public and maybe establish contacts with them it could be a win-win situation, IMO.

Sounds like a good idea as long as it isn't mandatory.  Encourage it all you want, but mandatory training is government infringement any way you slice it.

Also make it affordable...like the cost of materials only.  Too many can't / won't pay a lot for it.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Shotgun Franklin on April 28, 2011, 10:50:46 AM
Forty Rod, I agree completely. It could save a Citizens butt after a shooting to say that he'd attended a Training Day with the Local Agency and shot their course.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Eloy Santa Cruz on February 06, 2012, 05:12:01 PM
@ Shotgun & Forty Rod - I could'nt agree with you more!
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: joec on February 06, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Well I got my first concealed carry license when they first came onto the scene back in the early 80's but had carried since I was 21 before that. I've lived in 4 states and gotten concealed carry permits in everyone without much problem. I now live in Kentucky and got one for here once I decided to stay. My wife also carries daily as well as I do. I kind of resent the fee to pay for something but do see some need for it also.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Forty Rod on February 06, 2012, 07:25:39 PM
Well I got my first concealed carry license when they first came onto the scene back in the early 80's but had carried since I was 21 before that. I've lived in 4 states and gotten concealed carry permits in everyone without much problem. I now live in Kentucky and got one for here once I decided to stay. My wife also carries daily as well as I do. I kind of resent the fee to pay for something but do see some need for it also.
[/color]

I can't see any justification for it at all.  IT'S A RIGHT!  No one should be able to charge for nor tax a right.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Shotgun Franklin on February 06, 2012, 07:47:29 PM
I'm old enough to remember, but wasn't old enough to vote under, the Pole Tax. I just don't see any difference in'm. No one eligible to exercise a Right should have to pay to do so.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: joec on February 06, 2012, 08:56:02 PM
I'm old enough to remember, but wasn't old enough to vote under, the Pole Tax. I just don't see any difference in'm. No one eligible to exercise a Right should have to pay to do so.

I agree, but if they insist on a background check and a fancy photo ID type license then I see why they charge every 5 years. None of that stuff should be required in my opinion at all.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Tall Dark Slim on February 06, 2012, 09:18:56 PM
We have all seen the wild antics of newbies at the range. I hate regulations, but there should be some level of competency.

Afterall, we have to qualify every year.

Sir,
I agree with you. Having shot the Virginia DCJS firearms qualification with four different weapons and achieving a perfect score each time I do not think much of either the qualification process nor the minimum standard. I believe 7 and in was full points on the B-27. I couldn't pull the trigger fast enough to drop a point at the distances required. I saw others that could not hold even this generous margin reliably still "qualify." I like the US Navy standard much better. The transitional Q is harder to see the rings and a more stringent 5 point zone is enforced. 48 Rounds with 240 possible points and practical things like multiple firing positions and timed reloads. If you qualify here you at least have some semblance of marksmanship with a handgun. I believe there should be an improvement in the civilian carry and police qualification standards. It should be enough that no one should pass if they do not practice regularly. The last thing I want is to be hit by errant shots from Tacticool Tommy in his IDPA vest or or Quick Draw McGoof who only practices once a year.  Both these men are idiots and have no dang bidness toting a shootin' iron in the first place despite his badge or tactical vest instilled false confidence.

Edit:
I agree that there should be no legal requirements or restrictions on firearms carriage. If men would be men and practice with their arms there. Would be a different story if folks took more pride in their marksmanship and skill at arms.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on February 06, 2012, 11:21:02 PM
I am a retired California LEO.  I carry ALL the time (a model 469 S&W compact 9mm).  I am an advocate of citizen carry like in Nevada, WA, TX and FL.
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Rafe Covington on February 06, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
I am 65 years old, been carrying since I was 15 years old. I don't need the governments or anybody elses permission to do so. I also don't feel the need to prove to anybody about whether I have the right to carry or not. Not in a hurry to go to jail or die but I will die on my feet and not my knees.

Rafe
Title: Re: Public Right to Carry?
Post by: Utah Bob on February 09, 2012, 05:04:10 PM
When the police do not support the citizens' right to bear arms, they become merely a tool of oppression. It ain't rocket science but it's too much for many politicians to wrap their pinheads around. >:(

From Sir Robert Peel's nine principles of policing:


What in the wide world of sports is goin on. That ain't my avatar!!