Author Topic: 1866 Short Rifle (Read 5613 times)

Daniel Dodge · « **on:** June 15, 2015, 03:14:09 PM »

I've spent about an hour scouring the internet trying to find some examples of original 1866 short rifles with no luck. Mostly carbines and some rifles. This leads me to question the existence of real short rifles with a 20" hex or round barrel that are not in the carbine configuration.

I don't have the expensive Winchester books to reference and I’m temped to get one, but not if they are a modern fabrication.

Can any of you gun lore experts weigh in and help educate a feller?

Thanks!

Dan

Will Ketchum · « **Reply #1 on:** June 15, 2015, 04:43:22 PM »

Madis, states that "special order features were discouraged for the 66.. however on page 126 he lists special order features in a table compiled from factory records and on that list is "200 rifles had a 20 barrel". I think that answers your question regarding short rifles.

Will ketchum

Blair · « **Reply #2 on:** June 15, 2015, 04:58:05 PM »

Capt. Sage,

This can be a rather touchy question to answer.
I am not fond of the shorter barreled guns, so I don't go looking for them in my research.
However, the '66's were produced from 1866 until 1899 and beyond the production completion date. (After 33 + years there may have been some?)
Question for you? Is there a specific time period you are looking at, or interested in? This might help narrow down your original question somewhat.
Example; many early '66 carbines are made with Rifle butt stocks and butt plates. And some Rifles are made using saddle ring Carbines frames.
The variety and variation can be large, but, I have to say I do not recall specifically a "Short 22" octagon barreled Rifle" within the M-1866 Winchesters. (but I have not been looking either)
I hope this info may help.
My best,
Blair

Advertising · « **Reply #3 on:** **Today** at 07:52:39 PM »

Daniel Dodge · « **Reply #3 on:** June 15, 2015, 06:49:08 PM »

Thanks for the info so far! I'm looking for something to go with my Open Tops and Conversions.

Coffinmaker · « **Reply #4 on:** June 15, 2015, 07:53:34 PM »

I may have a suggestion or two for your quandary. What caliber are your Conversions and Open Tops??

Coffinmaker

Daniel Dodge · « **Reply #5 on:** June 15, 2015, 08:01:12 PM »

44 colt/special for my 1860 RM and OT, 38 for my 1851 RM. I was thinking of going 44 special in a 66 and trying the 44 colt load to replicate the 44 henry rim.

Coffinmaker · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2015, 04:03:22 PM »

Ok. Couple of things. Thing # 1. Just 'cause you can't find it, don't mean it weren't. Way back in the Way back, when Winchester was actually manufacturing guns

If you could think of it, you could order it, and Winchester would build it. Octagonal barrel rifles were as short as the fore stock. Butt stock an any configuration. Shotgun pad, Crescent moon, Skeleton, just finished & checkered wood. If you could think it, Winchester should accept a special order for it. So have no fear about a "Short Rifle."
Thing # 2. The original chambering for the 1871/72 Open Top was .44 Something or other, identical to .44 Henry Flat. Rimfire. With a few prototype Central Fire guns thrown in for interest. R/M Conversion, common in the original .44 Colt with an outside lube .45 Cal bullet.
Thing #3. Because of the fore going, you have options. First option, '66 Short Rifle, .45 Cal. Smith Shop Carrier, run Cowboy .45 Special cases with either Smokeless (heathens use this), or BP/Subs. Next option, '66 Short Rifle, .44 Special Cal. Smith Shop Carrier, run .44 Russian cases, same propellant options (remember the heathens

). Same rifle in .44 Spl and .44 Colt cases. You may well have problems with .44 Colt cases because of the rim diameter. Some rifles will run .44 Colt, Some won't.
My personal attempt at time travel, is a 24 inch (was) '1866 in .44 Special with the Barrel/Mag cut to 16 1/8 inches, Smith Shop Carrier, and a pair of 1871/2 Open Tops chambered in .44 Colt. I ran .44 Russian cases in all of them. Big 'ol 160Gr bullets (Gamer weight) and APP for propellant. Almost the equivalent of the original cartridges. Gobs of FUN!!!

There, See, Made it easy for ya

Coffinmaker

Daniel Dodge · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2015, 04:43:06 PM »

Informative and entertaining! Thanks Coffin. I found the only 44 special short rifle on the net apparently and it's now on the way! I'm going to see if it will work at all with 44 colt before I do anything else, maybe I'll get lucky.

Dan

Mike · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2015, 08:19:17 PM »

Both my Opentop and Richards chamber 44sp, the Richards has 44 colt on the barrel, my 73 in 44sp does work with 44 colt also.

Abilene · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2015, 08:28:24 PM »

I tried running some .44 Colt dummies through my '66 .44 spcl short rifle and the extractor doesn't get a good hold on them. That's okay, I could fiddle with the extractor but I'm happy shooting Specials in it.

Coffinmaker · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2015, 08:43:29 PM »

That was the advantage to running .44 Russian cases in my "Project Set." However, It is an expensive project as the special Carrier Block from "The Smith Shop" ain't exactly cheap.
My true "fave" .44 pistol load is a .430 Round Ball loaded in the Russian case, crimped hard at the equator. 2F APP. Very low recoil (I'm a WIMP). Fun to shoot and just as accurate as a regular bullet. Not to forget, with APP, bullet lube is superfluous so round ball works just peachy. Can't run em in tube magazine rifles though. Make turtles and jam up the works.

Coffinmaker

Crow Choker · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2015, 09:57:30 AM »

I have a Uberti 66' Short Rifle chambered in 44 Spec that handles 44 Colt cases (Starline) with ease, will cycle as fast as I want to work the lever, never have done anything to the innards'. The 44 Colts are usually loaded with 25.0 grains of FF black, but sometimes FFF. Mav Dutch 200 grainer on top, standard primer. My revolvers are opposite of what Mike reported. My 72' Open Top is chambered in 44 Spec, but stamped 44 Colt, while my Richards II is chambered and stamped 44 Spec. I have shot both smokeless and black through them all (SM in the 44 Spec's and black in the 44 Colts to keep ammo ID easy), but over the last 3-4 odd years have only shot black through them. I was told by a Cimarron employee when I bought the Open Top and 66' in 2007 that the 44 Colt stamping on the Open Top even though it was chambered in 44 Special was done to appease the period correct diehards who wanted a 44 Spec chambered gun, but a revolver with original markings. Seems odd when the original 72' was chambered for a 44 rimfire to match the chambering of the 1860 Henry, then you have 'Eyetalin' markings on the gun along with Cimarron stamped on it. Oh well!!!!! Love the guns and the chamberings.

Daniel Dodge · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2015, 09:34:29 PM »

Well I got the 66 short rifle in 44 special tonight. I do like the handy size of it. It's a Cimarron like most of my cowboy guns, I really like there stuff. It seems to cycle 44 colts ok. The blasted loading gate popped off and I could not get the screw to bite and hold it back on. I finally got it after monkeying with it for about half an hour. I'll shoot it in a few days and let you all know. My dealer I picked it up had got me a box of magtech cowboy 44 spl loads and did the transfer with the ammo for $20. Can't beat that!

Dan

Daniel Dodge · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2015, 09:43:41 PM »

Got to shoot her this weekend between rain storms. I'm happy to report that she likes 44 colt just fine as is. A joy to shoot really. I wish my Henry and my other 66 wit in 44 special now.

here is a pic of my Pre-1873 crew. i love these early cartridge guns.

Henry, 66 Short Rifle, 66 SRC, 1860 RMs, 1851 RMs and 1871/2 Open Tops. I prefer the navy grips on the open tops to go with the short rifle..

treebeard · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2015, 10:38:56 PM »

Capt. Sage--so how many rounds of the 44 Colt does the Henry hold?

Daniel Dodge · « **Reply #15 on:** June 29, 2015, 10:50:17 PM »

The henry and carbine are in 44-40. The Short Rifle is the only one in 44 colt. I suspect you could get 14 or 15 44 colts in a henry.

yahoody · « **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2015, 03:46:40 PM »

The 66 short rifle in 44 special is one of my favorites. 1/2# lighter than the same in a 45. Exceptionally nice balance on the .44, '66.

News: