Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1876 => Topic started by: Grizzly Adams on January 23, 2008, 01:21:05 PM
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I thought it would be interesting to have a thread in which folks can share pics of original 1876 Winchesters. If we get enough interest, I will make this a sticky.
I have posted this one elsewhere, but I will put it up again to get the ball rolling! :)
This is a short rifle, caliber 45-75. It has a 22 inch round barrel and a shotgun butt. It was built for the English market judgeing by the English proof marks and the way the wood has been finished. Note the forearm, which is 1 inch shorter than standard. Serial number indicates 1884.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%20Short%20Rifle/15.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%20Short%20Rifle/16.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%20Short%20Rifle/17.jpg)
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Here are a pair of .50-95 Express rifles from my collection. The one on top was shipped in November of 1889 with a 26" round barrel. The one on the bottom was shipped in December of 1881 with a 26" octagon barrel. Neither of these guns has British proof marks. They were both sold here in the US and used on the frontier. Both guns are standard production, with the exception of the special order express front and rear barrel sights on the top gun. The 26" barrel was the standard length for express rifles, while 28" was standard for all other calibers in the '76. I have also included in the photo, a full original box of .50-95 Express Winchester ammunition and an early Winchester bullet mold and reloading tool for this caliber. The cartridge box, tool and mold are only marked "Winchester Express" and do not have the .50-95 caliber markings. These are very early items and at the time they were produced, this was the only express caliber Winchester offered. Therefore, it was understood that "Winchester Express" meant .50-95 caliber. Next time, I'll take a photo of one of my deluxe guns.
Adios,
Buck
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0184-1.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0195-1.jpg)
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Tried to post some pictures I have of an original NWMP 76, but all that appear are itsy bitsy pics. Gonna have to work this out.
Icebox
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Here are pictures of a NWMP carbine that was on display at the Saskatoon gunshow last fall. No, it wasn't for sale. More pics coming
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76h2.jpg)
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76g2.jpg)
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(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76b2.jpg)
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76e2.jpg)
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(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76f2.jpg)
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76c2.jpg)
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(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76j2.jpg)
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76i2.jpg)
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And lastly
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z112/IceboxSask/NWMP76d3A.jpg)
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I love pictures of original guns and accessories. Come on guys, lets see some more.
Adios,
Buck
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Beautiful rifles, guys! Neat to see the NWMP carbine documented to Inspector Generoux.
Hey, Buck, what is the small tool with the wooden handle?
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Made in 1879, single set trigger, long range sporting tang sight, beach folding front sight, .45-60.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e184/srjames/Winchester1876.jpg)
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I think it's nice that some folks are interested in showing there original 1876 Winchesters. The photos and guns are great and fun to look at. We need more interest in this forum.
Grizzly,
The small tool with the wooden handle is the plug for the "Express" bullet mold. Some guys call it the hollow pointer, but in fact it is the fixture used to cast the express bullet. The following photo may help to show the function of this fixture. The true Winchester Express bullet had a small hollow copper plug that was inserted into the nose of the bullet after it was cast from the mold. It is nearly the same as an empty .22CB cap cartidge case but without a rim. The purpose was to help the bullet expand when hitting hard mussle or bone, just like a soft nose jacketed bullet. The copper express caps made by Winchester and UMC could be purchased in boxes of 100 for the guys who reloaded their own ammo. These caps were marked on the nose end with an "X" for express. You can barely see it in one of the photos. Another photo shows both the 4th model iron Winchester "Express" mold and the 5th model wood handle Winchester mold that casts a solid .50-95 bullet. This is the mold I use most often for my reloading.
Adios,
Buck
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0199.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0212.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0207.jpg)
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Buck, thanks for the pics and the explanation. I had read about this, but I had never seen one. A picture is worth a thousand words! Pretty slick idea! I would guess that those caps are getting pretty hard to come by, or is someone making them now? :)
Snake River, thats a fine looking old girl you have there! Thanks for posting. Buy the way, how does it shoot?
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Snake River, that is a nice '76. If I have not added the serial number to my list, I'd like to do so, if your agreeable. Let me know.
Grizzly,
In all the years I've collected boxed ammunition, I've only seen one partial box of Winchester expansion caps for the .50 Express. This box belongs to a friend of mine who owns a highly engraved 1876 deluxe rifle in .50-95 that belonged to Granville Stewart, who was one of our famous Montana pioneers. Stewart special ordered the gun in 1880 and had it inscribed with his name and the date. It is as fancy a deluxe '76 as I have ever seen. When my friend bought the rifle from Stewarts descendants, it came with the original sling, Winchester reloading tool, bullet mold, box of expansion caps, and 7 full boxes of .50 Express ammunition. All of the small items were stored in the original 2000 round wooden ammo crate marked "Winchester Express". Of all the frontier guns with documentation and because of all of the original accessories, this one is as good as it gets.
Adios,
Buck
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(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/win1876.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/win1876-2.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/win1876-3.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/win1876-4.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/win1876-5.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/win1876-6.jpg)
Two Flints
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Fine old rifle, Two Flints. Thanks for posting the pics. I moved them to this thread so they could be with their friends! ;)
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This is a Winchester 1876 in caliber 45-75. Manufactured in 1885, this special version of the gun has a very rare 6 leaf sight, and an adjustable tang sight, it was made for the big game African market. It has extra quality fine deluxe pistol grip stock, with fine checkering and ebony inlay to pistol grip cap. Crescent stock with butt trap, set trigger and a good bore. This gun has a special 28" heavy octagonal barrel, no finish to metalwork, minor pitting, in good working order and it shoots great!
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/1.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/2.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/3.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/4.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/5.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/6.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/7.jpg)
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Great photos. I'm really glad to see that there are some folks who love their 1876 Winchesters. Nice early 1880 1st model tool, also. I've never seen one with an extended chamber. Exactly what is it intended for? Is it removable?
Adios,
Buck
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Here are pics of a fairly early 1876 that was fully restored many years ago. It is engraved in the same pattern as the one that is shown on page 237 of the Madis book. Caliber is 45-75. :) Note the "thumbprint" dust cover.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%20Engraved/42.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%20Engraved/43.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%20Engraved/44.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%20Engraved/45.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%20Engraved/46.jpg)
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Grizzly,
That's a great '76. Who did the restoration? The earlier thumbprint dust cover guns are getting harder to find. If I have time this afternoon, I have some photos of one of my deluxe guns that I'll try to post. Keep the photos coming boys.
Adios,
Buck
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Grizzly,
That's a great '76. Who did the restoration? The earlier thumbprint dust cover guns are getting harder to find. If I have time this afternoon, I have some photos of one of my deluxe guns that I'll try to post. Keep the photos coming boys.
Adios,
Buck
I wish I knew! :)
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Here are some pics of my favorite '76 deluxe sporting rifle. This one is listed with octagon barrel 28", case colored receiver, 3X checkered stock, rifle butt, sling and swivels, set trigger, long range tang and globe front sight. Shipped from the warehouse in 1880. These photos also show the original 5 piece cleaning rod in the butt, as well as a complete set of early Winchester reloading implements and an original box of Winchester .45-60 WCF ammunition. This gun came from the family of the original owner. I've owned it now for about 11 years.
Buck
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0227.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0240a.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0242.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0247.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/DSC_0231.jpg)
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Buck that is a beautiful rifle, absolutely stunning. :) Really shows the pride and craftsmanship that when into the model of 1876. Thanks for sharing that one with us. It is rare to see such a fine example. :)
I like that long range tang sight with the thick base.
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I agree with Griz! ;D Beautiful rifle, Buck! Your a mighty lucky fellow!
Oklahoma Dee
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Thanks fella's. I knew when I found it, I had to have it. I sold off a dandy early open top'76 and an early 1st model '73 to get it. Once I brought it home, I had no regrets. It has a mint bore and it's a great shooter. In the next few days, I'll post pics of a .45-75 WCF standard sporting rifle that is near new.
Keep the photos coming, boys.
Adios,
Buck
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Beautiful rifle Buck! I can see why you had to have it. You already have the information on my rifle, by the way.
Grizz, my rifle shoots very well, but then it should, as the barrel is new (just "antiqued" on the outside). The previous owner had it rebarreled (Douglas) in the original .45-60 of the old barrel. I have the old barrel, so the rifle could be restored to original condition. The bore is pretty rough, which is why the previous owner rebarreled it.
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Grizz, my rifle shoots very well, but then it should, as the barrel is new (just "antiqued" on the outside). The previous owner had it rebarreled (Douglas) in the original .45-60 of the old barrel. I have the old barrel, so the rifle could be restored to original condition. The bore is pretty rough, which is why the previous owner rebarreled it.
Well, he did a pretty good job on the antiquing of the Douglas barrel, as it sure is not apparent, at least in the picture. :) A good solution, and one that can be reversed if need be. I had toyed with that idea myself, but then the replicas became available. :)
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Here are some pics of my original 45-60. Pretty nice metal, mostly gone to plume. Action is very tight. Original cleaning rods in the butt trap. Wish I knew who "BP" was! ;)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%2045-60/7.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%2045-60/8.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%2045-60/9.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%2045-60/10.jpg)
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Beautiful rifle, Grizzly. Guns in this condition really excite me. What am I talking about; a '73 or '76 in any condition excites me. It sure would be nice to know who carved the initials in the stock. I was noticing the ears on the rear sight. They appear to be a bitt taller than standard. Do you think the sight was altered by a frontier gunsmith?
Adios,
Buck
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Beautiful rifle, Grizzly. Guns in this condition really excite me. What am I talking about; a '73 or '76 in any condition excites me. It sure would be nice to know who carved the initials in the stock. I was noticing the ears on the rear sight. They appear to be a bitt taller than standard. Do you think the sight was altered by a frontier gunsmith?
Adios,
Buck
Quick eye! :) I believe you are correct. Note the graft in the pics :)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%2045-60/DSC01134.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y213/grizzly3674/1876%2045-60/DSC01137.jpg)
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WOW!!! That's a dandy. The gunsmith that did the work, really knew what he was doing. No hack job their. What a great find on a gun like this. I collect vintage sights, mostly Winchester. I have around 150 great original and frontier altered barrel sights. The altered sights are always a great find, especially if they were done professionaly. A friend of mine has a set of Freund sights on an 1876 rifle he owns. The rear sight is an original long leaf but with Freund More Light improvments and the front sight is a standard More Light knife blade. They are the prettiest barrel sights I have ever seen. Both are Freund marked and appear to have been done in either the Cheyenne or Durango shop.
Adios,
Buck
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Griz, another great looker! ;) One of these days I will be getting something like that!
Do you know, where on the CASCity area, that I can post a gun for sale? I have that Chaparral NWMP carbine that is a really good one. I just prefer to shoot and (work on) with the Chaparral short rifle.
Oklahoma Dee
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WOW!!! That's a dandy. The gunsmith that did the work, really knew what he was doing. No hack job their. What a great find on a gun like this. I collect vintage sights, mostly Winchester. I have around 150 great original and frontier altered barrel sights. The altered sights are always a great find, especially if they were done professionaly. A friend of mine has a set of Freund sights on an 1876 rifle he owns. The rear sight is an original long leaf but with Freund More Light improvments and the front sight is a standard More Light knife blade. They are the prettiest barrel sights I have ever seen. Both are Freund marked and appear to have been done in either the Cheyenne or Durango shop.
Adios,
Buck
Now that is a find! I really like the Freund More Light sights. I am surprised that someone has not seen fit to reproduce them. Too much interest in glass nowdays, I guess! :)
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Grizzly,
The Freund More Light sights are being reproduced. I saw some a few years back at the Colorado Arms Collectors show in Denver. They were then and I believe still are made in the Ukrain. They are top notch all the way. I bought a set for a Trapdoor sporting rifle that I was building and they work great. Buffalo Arms in Sandpoint, Id., has them in their catalog. They come as a set, front knife blade and rear buckhorn and sell for around $135.00. The set I bought fit a 3/8" Winchester dovetail. Hope this will help.
Adios,
Buck
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Grizzly,
The Freund More Light sights are being reproduced. I saw some a few years back at the Colorado Arms Collectors show in Denver. They were then and I believe still are made in the Ukrain. They are top notch all the way. I bought a set for a Trapdoor sporting rifle that I was building and they work great. Buffalo Arms in Sandpoint, Id., has them in their catalog. They come as a set, front knife blade and rear buckhorn and sell for around $135.00. The set I bought fit a 3/8" Winchester dovetail. Hope this will help.
Adios,
Buck
Must be gettin old! :D Been to that site (Buffalo Arms) a zillion times and never noticed those! Thanks for the heads up! :)
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My RCMP:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Levallois/1876%20NWMP/Winchester1876RCMPCarbine005.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Levallois/1876%20NWMP/Winchester1876RCMPCarbine006.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Levallois/1876%20NWMP/Winchester1876RCMPCarbine004.jpg)
In pretty good shape - these had a hard life.
Zip
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Zip,
I remember that gun. I'm glad you were able to pick it up. The Mountie carbines are as rare as they get and yours is in much better condition than most. Thanks for letting us take a look.
Adios,
Buck
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Zip, thanks for posting the pics. What a grand old Warrior! Arms that "worked for a living" and show their history are so much more interesting than "closet guns." :)
By the by guys, I have made this thread a sticky so it don't get pushed to the bottom! ;D
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Well, I thought I'd through another one in the mix. This is one of my original .40-60's. This gun was shipped from the factory on September 28, 1885. Letter states, "case hardened finish". It also has extra finish walnut with beautiful tiger stripes in the stock. Plain trigger, 28" octagon and original cleaning rod in the butt. The gun has 95% original blue and 20% case color , with the balance turning a motled silver. The bore is bright and shinny.
Adios,
Buck
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/Model187640-60005.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/Model187640-60004.jpg)
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Buck, that is one beautiful rifle, truly stunning example! :) When you see one like this, it really brings home the fact that this model was Winchester's flagship for a decade.
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Hello Buck
This is a beautiful 1876, Buck you must have one heck of a collection Pard, I for one can really appreciate these old guns , thanks for sharing
tEN wOLVES
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Gorgeous rifle !
Got a question for the knowledgable.... everyone seems to 'curse' the Uberti Red finish,,,yet we see your origininal that the wood finish looks exactly like it came from Uberti....
Do you think Uberti is actually more on the 'correct' side with finish than we think ? Tint wise , mean ? I have done my share of 'ohh nooo that red ,,,,but,,,I'm starting to change my mind with more historic examples i see..
I have a pic somwheres of a pair of cased '60Army revolvers,,,obviously never used....and they look lilke they came in from Cimarron today....
I admit,,'my' eye likes the more 'brownish' finish on 19th century type guns..but it seems Uberit is closer than we might think on the 'reddish' hue in their stain ???
Comments ?
Thanks pards,
Michael,,oops,,Marshal D.
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The color in the photo is not exactly true to the real color of the stock. It is much more orange than shown in the photo. When most standard production Winchesters were new, the color of the wood was very orange. This color is evident only in the very high condition guns. It didn't take much handling or sunlight to change the orange color to a darker red. In have a perfect example in a .45-75 that I may try to post later. The gun is almost new, with 95% of it's original finish overal. The wood too, is perfect in every respect. However, you can tell that it has seen some handling because the forend is darker than the butt stock. There were certain serial ranges in various models, which have stocks and forends that are nearer the red color of the Uberti guns. I don't know why this is, but my guess would be in the supply of wood used at those specific serial number runs. I doubt that Winchester purchased all of their wood from the same supplier and it probably didn't come from the same forests, either. It may also have been different colors in the stain. However if this were the case, it makes you wonder why the shop would waffle back and forth on their stain recipe. Very little info is left for further research and these qusetions have been asked for years. Who knows.
Adios,
Buck
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This is an interest subject. I too have thought that Uberti gets a LOT of unjustified criticism over the finish they put on their rifles. It really is pretty close to what is often seen on the originals. Even between Uberti examples, you will see a wide degree of variation. I have a 73 SRC that is about 10 years old, and very red in color. On the other hand, my 1876 had more orange in it. I personally think they do a pretty decent job with these arms. :)
Notice that I said "had" in regards to my Uberti 1876! I am in the process of refinishing the wood to reduce the orange and highlight the red! Looks like I'm going the wrong direction! :D
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Marshall Deadwood and Grizzly Adams,
Here is the gun I mention in my earlier post. I have a special attachment to all of my 1876 Winchesters, but this one is close to the top of the list. I bought this gun in Denver about 10 years ago. It is a .45-75 with factory sling swivels and special order long range tang and adjustable front globe sights. This gun is near new in condition and clearly shows the orange color in the wood that we talked about earlier. As you can see, the forend is darker than the butt stock. Sinse the gun saw very little use, the darker forend comes from handling, where as the buttstock is closer to the original and standard orange color.
This front sight is very rare and was only offered by Winchester for two years before it was discontinued. It is similar to the Beach front sight that we are most familiar with, but the mechanics that make it work are very different.
Adios,
Buck
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/Model187645-75004.jpg)(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/Model187645-75006.jpg)
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here's mine:
excellent original condition overall
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg196/hfcable/P1000063.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg196/hfcable/P1000062.jpg)
half octagon half round, button magazine
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg196/hfcable/P1000067.jpg)
special sights, multiple leaf folding rear with ladder
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg196/hfcable/P1000065.jpg)
midrange vernier tang sight
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg196/hfcable/P1000066.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg196/hfcable/P1000070.jpg)
wonderful mirror bore, like new as many in this caliber are
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg196/hfcable/P1000071.jpg)
has letter giving details
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg196/hfcable/P1000072.jpg)
I think this is my favorite rifle, next to my 1886 brownchester custom; have only shot it a little, but have loaded a lot more rounds in anticipation of the coming warmer weather.
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Welcome, Doc Cable! Thanks for bringing that pretty lady over for us to see. :)
Buy the way, I spent 25 years in Alaska, and my cousin is still in Anchorage. Works for Spenard Builders.
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Doc, that's a dandy Express rifle. I couldn't help noticing by the letter, that the rifle once belonged to Mike Ginn in Texas. In years gone by, Mike was a heavy dealer and collector of Express rifles in both the 1876 and 1886 models. I used to see him at shows like Denver and Cody with sometimes a dozen or more .50's in both models. I remember one year in Cody, he had ten '76 .50-95's for sale on his table. He was always willing to let me record the numbers and features for my list. Somewhere along the line, your gun was recorded on my list. If you didn't supply me with the information, then I may have gotten it from Mike. Great rifle.
Adios,
Buck
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This is an interest subject. I too have thought that Uberti gets a LOT of unjustified criticism over the finish they put on their rifles. It really is pretty close to what is often seen on the originals. Even between Uberti examples, you will see a wide degree of variation. I have a 73 SRC that is about 10 years old, and very red in color. On the other hand, my 1876 had more orange in it. I personally think they do a pretty decent job with these arms. :)
Notice that I said "had" in regards to my Uberti 1876! I am in the process of refinishing the wood to reduce the orange and highlight the red! Looks like I'm going the wrong direction! :D
I know that at least on the Winchester Model 12 Shotguns, Winchester used what is known as their "Red Oil Finish".
There's a fellow who has the original formula and mixes up and sells this (I think he advertises in The Gun List, haven't looked in several years).
Somewhere around here I have a small bottle that I bought from him.
My guess is this wasn't reserved just for Model 12s but was probably used on most Winchester models, even those dating back a long time.
You might consider seeing if you can find some of this to refinish your Uberti with?
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I know that at least on the Winchester Model 12 Shotguns, Winchester used what is known as their "Red Oil Finish".
There's a fellow who has the original formula and mixes up and sells this (I think he advertises in The Gun List, haven't looked in several years).
Somewhere around here I have a small bottle that I bought from him.
My guess is this wasn't reserved just for Model 12s but was probably used on most Winchester models, even those dating back a long time.
You might consider seeing if you can find some of this to refinish your Uberti with?
I do recall that. I believe it may be these folks. :)
http://www.tapaderaswinchesters.com/stain.html
I note that they now have it in brown as well as the original red stain. :)
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I saw a beautiful '76 in the Billings gun show last weekend. I wish I had the money to get the gun, it was a high condition 45-75 with a W.F. Sheard stamp on the barrel. I am about $10,000.00 short. Here are a few photos of my '76 rifles with a few other originals thrown in. I have also shot a few game animals with them and include those pictures as well.
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0781-1.jpg)
Montana moose with a Deluxe in 40-60...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0568.jpg)
Antelope with a 45-60...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0208-1.jpg)
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Howdy Shrapnel :o 8)
WOW Pard, you're definitely a lucky feller to have a beauitful collection of old arms like this , and memories of useing them in hunts where you have taken game like this . I know it takes lots of time and money to put together what you have , but it's worth every bit of it . Thanks for sharing this with us Pard. :D ;D
tEN wOLVES ;) :D ;D
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Welcome to the club Shrapnel. I'm over here in the Bitterroot and enjoyed seeing a couple of your rifles. I know the Sheard gun you saw in Billings and it is indeed, a fine high condition gun. I just picked up three Mountie carbines and two realy fine rifles from the man who has that gun. I've been shooting and collecting 1876 Winchesters for a long time. I have also been gathering serial number research on this model and now have over 3000 guns on my list. I would be pleased to add any of your originals to my research if you're interested. You can email me at the address on my profile and I'll let you know what info I am interested in. Again, welcome to the club.
Adios,
Buck
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I would be interested in knowing some of the background on the Sheard marked 1876. :)
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Grizzly,
This gun is a 3rd model, .45-75 with a 28" round barrel and full magazine. It is standard in every way, but the condition is 90% over-all. The serial number is in the 37XXX range. I do not have the factory letter, but it is available to any interested buyers. I can get the exact price if interested. The gun is marked, W.F. Sheard, Livingston, MT. This gun will be on my table at the Colorado Gun Collectors show in Denver, May 16,17,18. I have several other great 1876 rifles and carbines for sale and they will also be at that show. If you have any questions, please let me know.
Adios,
Buck
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Wow, appreciate the pics of these fine Winchester Levers. I'll search around this forum for more info on these. Thanks.
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I got the W.F. Sheard Winchester that I saw in the Billings gun show about 3 weeks ago. It letters in 1883, here are some pictures, it has alot of condition... Thanks for the help,Buck
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76stockrtside.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76sight.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76stamp.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76rtsideaction.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76rtbarrel.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76elevator.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76bottom.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76leftaction.jpg)
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I got the W.F. Sheard Winchester that I saw in the Billings gun show about 3 weeks ago. It letters in 1883, here are some pictures, it has alot of condition... Thanks for the help,Buck
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76rtsideaction.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76bottom.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/WFSheard76leftaction.jpg)
Wow! Congratulations on scoring that beautiful rifle! Stunning! :)
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Shrapnel,
I figured you'd probably end up with that '76. John is easy to deal with and he's got some great stuff. Your gun is proof of that. I picked up three Mountie carbines and two very high condition rifles from him a couple of months ago. I sold one of the Mounties and the rest I'll take to Denver in a couple of weeks. I'm really glad you were able to get the Sheard gun.
Adios,
Buck
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It pleased me to find that someone had picked up a rifle from W. F. Sheard. I just found an 1892 rifle in 25-20 that is stamped on the left side of the receiver: FROM W. F. SHEARD TACOMA WASH It was produced in 1905, and was found in the town of Seldovia, the original port for south central Alaska in the late 1800's and early 1900's. most of the blue has turned brown with specks of rust and the bore is somewhat rough. It was assumed to be a trapper's rifle because of the light cartridge and has definitly seen some sled wear. The wood is all there and in pretty good finish, the action is smooth and functions well. One of the unusual aspects is that the rear sight is a folding two blade 'express' style and the front sight is not of Winchester production. As I understand, Sheard made is own sights with up to three blades but I couldn't find a reference with pictures to match them up to the sights on my rifle. If anyone can help me learn more about my rifle, I would appreciate it. I can take close-up shots if anyone would like to see them. Thanks, Sojourner
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I bought this rifle in 1968.45/60 manufactured in 1882.A former owner had it reblued.Barrel is fair otherwise it is in great shape.Jim Hughes
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Another picture.
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Ok I think I may have gotten it figured out. I hate getting old, I found it yesterday but had to reduce the size of the photo, and got distracted in the process.
If it works it is the caliber stamp on the barrel and on the carrier.
Honest Henry ;D
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Here are a few pictures of mine. It is a 45-60 and the Serial puts it at 1882. As you can see, she is a little rough but overall not in too bad of condition.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/SigP220ST/IMG_1190.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/SigP220ST/IMG_1192.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/SigP220ST/IMG_1195.jpg)
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Nice old warrior! Thanks for posting her pic. :)
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One of my favorite 1876 Saddle Ring Carbines. Yes, the end of the barrel was cut off (looks period done) before I bought it 20 years ago.
The Colt is an original 1873 made in 1876, also inspected by Lewis Draper in that year.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/rich951/Johns76Winand37Coltcopyright.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/rich951/Johns45-75copyright.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/rich951/JohnsSRC1876copyright.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/rich951/Johns76againcopyright.jpg)
I wish that I had kept every antique arm I ever had.
Oh well, live and learn. Never give your treasures away to help other people save their homes.
After I get my ranch I'll start collecting again.
To see more of my items check out the STORM and other forums around CAS soon.
Rich Lovan
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Very nice early SRC! Love those "thumbprint" dust covers. :)
That Colts SAA ain't too shabby either! ;D
Thanks for posting the pics.
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Great 1876's in here!
Your Winchesters are masterpieces, Grizzly Adams!
Love all of them in here.
We are definitely caretakers of these awesome pieces of history for future collectors.
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Great 1876's in here!
Your Winchesters are masterpieces, Grizzly Adams!
Love all of them in here.
We are definitely caretakers of these awesome pieces of history for future collectors.
Indeed. We are caretakers, not owners. When I shoulder one of these old warriors, I wonder how many others have done the same, and under what circumstances. I also pray that others will have the same pleasure in the years to come.
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Very nice early carbine. I'm taking it for granted that it is a .45-75, but many of these earlier guns were brought out of the warehouse and changed to .45-60. Have you ever gotten a letter on the gun? I think we need more photos of original 1876 Winchester. Just my opinion, of course. I have a few NWMP carbines that I just sold as a group and I'll put up a photo of those before they ship off. There are some interesting guns in this group.
Adios,
Buck
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Wow!
I sure wish I was the new caretaker of those carbines of yours Buck! I'll be collecting arms again after I get my ranch. I'm also setting up a machine shop to restore and make original and repro high quality parts for all makes and models.
Yes, you are right. .45-75 Calibre :-)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/rich951/addressonthe76-1.jpg)
Well this as all of my other photos I post here through that darn photobucket.com turns a bit blurry but the actual lettering is still crisp and the bluing is flaking off around each charater a bit. I'll remember to get right on the lettering from now on with my camera.
Blessings
Johnny Reb
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Johnny Reb,
I checked the number on your carbine and it was shipped from the factory in April of 1879 as a .45-75. It also has the notation "with lid", which means dust cover.
Adios,
Buck
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Awesome!!!
Thank you for checking on the carbine Buck!
I wanted a letter but just didn't get one.
Very much appreciated for the info!
Be well
Rich
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Winchester Model 1876 45-60 serial number 10102.
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Nice early rifle Jonathan!
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Johnny Reb,
It should shoot well as the bore is good. Wouldn't mind talking my friend into letting me shoot it. Don't know what I'd do for ammo. Don't know anything about these old guns.
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Jonathan,
Thanks for posting the pic. Nice old rifle and yes, it would be fun to shoot.
Buck
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Be sure to use BLACK POWDER though as I'm sure you already know.
Ten X Ammo and others still offer it. Here is a link to one of them.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4101.html
Blessings
Johnny Reb
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For several weeks now, I've mentioned that I would put up this photo of a bunch of original North West Mounted Police carbines that I had. I delivered them this past Saturday, so they will have a new home shortly. You may see some of these come up for sale on the internet. All of these guns, are original and all have not only Winchester factory letters, but letters of authentication from Mountie historian Don Klancher. The most interesting gun in this bunch is the one in the top of the photo. This carbine is actually listed in Klanchers book "ARMS & ACCOUTREMENTS OF THE MOUNTED POLICE". Although the gun is not pictured, it is mentioned at the bottom of page 15 and carried over to the top of page 16. This carbine was reported "lost in the hills while riding in the hills in the Maple Creek area". The documentation that went with the gun also tells how it was lost and gives the serial number of the carbine that was issued to Constable Webb as a replacement. Most of these carbines had not only NWMP markings, but LOF (Legion of the Frontier) and APP (Alberta Provincial Police) markings and one was marked CSC for Candian School of Cavalry. They all say constant use for many yearsd and some of them showed it, but all in all, they were a nice bunch of historic guns. Hope you enjoy.
Adios,
Buck
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b260/Buckstinson/Mountiecarbines033.jpg
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What a wonderful grouping, Buck. Must have hurt to let them go! :'(
You say this carbine was lost, and the constable was issured a replacement. Was the lost carbine recovered by the police or by someone else, and thus later identified?
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I have no idea how it was found or when, but it must not have laid out too long as the gun isn't rust pitted. There is no indication that it was recoverd by the Mounties either, because it's serial number (23911) was never entered back into service. However, after it turned up, it is obvious that it was hard used. Both metal and wood show years of hard use on horseback and I'm sure this took place after the carbine was recovered. As part of the deal on these guns, I got a massive collection of Winchester, reloading tools, bullet molds and boxed ammo, all in 1876 Winchester calibers, nothing else. I will end up selling off most of them, but I'm keeping the few items I needed to complete my collection. I now have all the different models of molds and tools for all four of the calibers including .50 Express. Included in this group was an 1894 model tool, mold w/casting fixture for express bullet, powder dipper and decapping pin, all in .50-95 Express and all new in the original box. I'll try to post some pics later this week.
Adios,
Buck
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Thanks for the follow-up, Buck. :) Looking forward to seeing some pics of your new acquisitions. ;D
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The missing carbine is a real find and the photos are very impressive. On a side note the LOF stamp on some of the weapons redistributed from the Mounted Police stands for Legion of Frontiersmen ( rather than Legion of the Frontier) an organization that still exists today although there are many groups claiming it's history. The original is now known as Countess Mountbatten's Own Legion of Frontiersmen. There is more info at http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/
Dean
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photos as promised earlier...i have finished disassemble, cleaning, replacing missing parts & reassembly;
.45-60.
The manufacturer's data for Model 1876, serial number 22560, as extracted from the original
Winchester records housed in the museum, are as follows:
Type: Rifle
Barrel Type: Octagon
Barrel Length: 26 inches
Trigger: Set
Checkered stock
Casehardened
Received in warehouse on March 21, 1882
Shipped from warehouse on April 20, 1882, Order number 31450
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/1988rrc/1876FINISHED146.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/1988rrc/1876FINISHED142.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/1988rrc/1876FINISHED110.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/1988rrc/1876FINISHED117.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/1988rrc/1876FINISHED112.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/1988rrc/1876FINISHED114.jpg)
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That looks really nice. It looks like you took that old "refinish" off the wood. Boy that made a big difference. Congrats. You did a fine job all the way around.
Adios,
Buck
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I have no idea how it was found or when, but it must not have laid out too long as the gun isn't rust pitted. There is no indication that it was recoverd by the Mounties either, because it's serial number (23911) was never entered back into service. However, after it turned up, it is obvious that it was hard used. Both metal and wood show years of hard use on horseback and I'm sure this took place after the carbine was recovered. As part of the deal on these guns, I got a massive collection of Winchester, reloading tools, bullet molds and boxed ammo, all in 1876 Winchester calibers, nothing else. I will end up selling off most of them, but I'm keeping the few items I needed to complete my collection. I now have all the different models of molds and tools for all four of the calibers including .50 Express. Included in this group was an 1894 model tool, mold w/casting fixture for express bullet, powder dipper and decapping pin, all in .50-95 Express and all new in the original box. I'll try to post some pics later this week.
Adios,
Buck
Buck,
I'm a Christian and I know I'm not to be envious or covet things, but you're making me struggle a bit! Sounds pretty cool!
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Griz
There is so much good information in your description and photo's. Is it condensed anywhere as a PDF download? I'd like to print it off and put it in my "how to" notes. Really helpful and done well.
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Griz
There is so much good information in your description and photo's. Is it condensed anywhere as a PDF download? I'd like to print it off and put it in my "how to" notes. Really helpful and done well.
Sent you a PM. :)
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A good friend, a retired Mountie, just purchased an original 1876 in 45-75 caliber. He got it from the historian for the Mounties in Canada that had researched the gun extensively. The friend got all the paper work showing the individual Mountie the gun was assigned to for many years starting when it was first delivered to the government on for several decades of use. It was one of 500 purchased by the Canadian government from Winchester. It has the wood forearm that goes all the way to the end of the barrel. It is in excellent shape with no rust and a very small amount of pitting in the barrel. My friend will be contacting the Cody Museum for more information. The gun exterior is excellent with no rust and the wood is very good, a bit dry but no cracks. His question is what is it worth and what should it be insured for?
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Depending on which book you read, there were around 1,510 model 1876 Winchester carbines purchased by the NWMP between 1878 and 1885. Most were ordered through I. G. Baker in Fort Benton, Montana. Although all of these guns are listed by serial number in the Winchester warehouse ledgers, only 150 are actually mentioned as NWMP purchases. This is very confusing to most people, but the fact remains that all Mountie orders are well documented and again, the number of guns is around 1,510. Mountie carbines vary considerably in value. Just like any other antique firearm, condition is everything. Within the past year, I sold seven NWMP carbines. None of these guns had much original blued finish, but they were tight mechanically, had good bores and very nice wood. All of these guns had factory letters and in addition, four of them had NWMP paper work. These guns all sold in the high four digit range. I still have one in my collection that I purchased from a friend in Sandpoint, Idaho many years ago. This one was shipped in April of 1885 and was last recorded in service at Ft. Saskatchewan in December of 1894. This is a very high condition gun with much of it's original bright blue, fantastic wood and wonderful NWMP markings. The gun is mechanically as new and has a perfect bore. Hope this has been of some interest.
Adios,
Buck
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Hi all
Found this forum via a search for 45-75... figure I should introduce myself. Collector, in South Africa. Fields of Interest (yea, we need those, to be accredited collectors, to get licences, to be able to have guns... takes between a year and two years, on average, to get a licence) are leverguns and Spanish handguns, mostly.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Levallois/1876%20NWMP/Winchester1876RCMPCarbine005.jpg)
I have a '76 almost identical to this one. Same sight at 1988RRC's gun. Not RCMP though, but that makes sense, being from this side of the world. Also not in quite as good a nick. #43349, dates it to 1884 (sez Madiz and Pirkle).
Just received brass from Jamison (should that be, gold from Jamison?) and dies from CH4D. Still need to find bullets, .452 handgun bullets are a very loose fit in the barrel.
I also have a matching '73, dates to 1883 I think, in 32-20. Needs a magazine and all the bits tho.
W
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Welcome to the fire, WRM! :) It always surprises me to learn not only how many of the Model 1876 are still around, but how they are found all over the world.
The Jamison Brass should work well in your SRC. Some books list the bore size as .452, but it's not so! They just rattle down the bore! Every original I have examined, or heard of, has a bore size of .457. The correct bullet for your SRC would be a 350 grain sized .458.
:)
GA
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These guns are nothing if they aren't used for what they were designed. I take mine out to shoot and hunt. Last week hunting deer, shot with an original with 90% original blue and finish in 45-75.
Poor deer...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_3113.jpg)
Antelope with a 45-60 original condition around 80-85%...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/antelope4modifiedfore-mail.jpg)
Praire Dogs...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0209.jpg)
Bear in Alaska, again with the 45-75...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_1026.jpg)
A moose with a deluxe 40-60...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0568.jpg)
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Now those pics are worthy of posting! Nice to see you getting full use of your 76's! ;) I like that deluxe model :D
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Great set of photos. I hunt with my 76's also and you can't have more fun than that.
Adios,
Buck
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Great pics! Love seeing these rifles doing what they were built to do. Thanks for posting! :)
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It always surprises me to learn not only how many of the Model 1876 are still around, but how they are found all over the world.
South Africa was never big on leverguns.
Found this pic the other day, dunno whether y'all have seen it already?
(http://www.dw.co.za/~wrm/sharedpics/Captured%20Boer%20Rifles%20in%20Cape%20Town%20(After%20Pta,%20the%20Guerilla%20War,%20p%20422).jpg)
You sharp-eyed fellows can do an inventory :-)
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WRM,
Was there a caption that went with this photo? The first rifle I noticed was the '76 right in front with the button mag and sling swivels. There appears to be an '86 in the stack on the far right. It too, looks like a button mag with sling swivels. Great photo.
Adios,
Buck
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WRM,
Was there a caption that went with this photo?
Just the title, "Captured Boer rifles in Cape Town (After Pretoria, the Guerilla War, p422)". Guessing it comes from this book http://www.archivecdbooksusa.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?AFFIL=TBA1&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GB1205
The first rifle I noticed was the '76 right in front with the button mag and sling swivels.
Yes, that's why a friend forwarded the pic to me, knowing my predilection for all things lever.
As I said, levers were never that popular in SA but this shows that there were some around.
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Sorry....wrong area for my post :-[
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Wish I could. Don't Know how >:(
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S/N 1053X, .45-60, circa 1880, case hardening & steel restoration done by Turnbull Restorations in 1998.
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Hey fellas,
Here's a few pictures of my 1876.
Josie
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/100_1837.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/100_1838.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/100_1841.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/100_1839.jpg)
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Nice looking rifle, Josie! Thanks for posting the pics. :)
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Thanks Griz! This gun is my first pre 1900 Winchester. I hoping to get a 73 and an 86 sometime in the next year or two. There's just something about the old Winchester lever actions that really excites me. If there is anybody else out there that has an original 76 I'd love to see some more pics. See ya fellas!!
Josie
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There's just something about the old Winchester lever actions that really excites me.
Josie
Your in good company, Josie. :)
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Well, I finally finished my "Reborn Again Winchester 1876"! 45-60 Caliber with Leather Sling From Buck ;D
When I bought her, she was a bit wornout and pretty well close to being an anchor replacement. ;)
Someone had cut the barrel to a crooked 23.5", the bore was real bad, only one link inside, rear site was from a 1873, and a few other things that I cannot remember.
What I wanted was a hunting rifle. I worked to that direction.
Had the barrel relined and a new crown and chambered correctly for the 45-60 by Siegrist Gun Shop in Michigan. Bought new links from Chas Jones, rear sight, front sight, firing pin, redid the lever and added the swivels by Alan Harton and topped it all with a wonderful Leather Sling from Rick Bachman (Old West Reproductions), Whew - Probably left something out... OH yeah THe Pictures!
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z279/okdee/Win76_Complete4.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z279/okdee/Win76_Complete5.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z279/okdee/Win76_Complete13.jpg)
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z279/okdee/Win76_Complete11.jpg)
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Nice looking rifle OKDEE. It sounds like you did quite a bit of work to the old girl. Good luck hunting with it! ;D
Josie
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Nice old Warrior, OKDEE! Looks like she spent some time across a saddle, judging by the wear on the forearm?
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You did a great job on putting the old iron back into shooting condition. I really like the fact that you didn't "RUIN" it by rebluing the metal and using new wood. For the life of me, I've never understood why anyone would even consider striping an old gun of all it's history by refinishing it. And some guys will refinish guns in much better condition than yours. Your gun looks the way it does because it was there. Who knows how that gun was used to get in the condition it is in. I think you did a wonderful job and now you should have a good shooter. I like the addition of the sling and swivels. Makes it look real cool. I'll be looking for a range report.
Adios,
Buck
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Very nice looking rifle, congrats on doin a great job restoring it.
buffalohunter
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Very nice pieces, all of them. This is my Winchester 1876, cal.40-60, rifle, round barrel. I got it together with the original
loading tool.
Best regards
Heinz
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Howdy, Heinz!
Thanks for sharing the pics of your rifle. :) Looks like it is in very nice condition. How does she shoot?
GA
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I have to agree with Griz, it looks like it's in great shape! You have a nice piece of history there Heinz. Take care.
Josie
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Thanks Griz, thanks Josie Wales, yes I like this rifle, is a good shooter. Here is another "good friend of mine" my Winchester 1886, cal, 45-90, manufactured in 1886:
Sincerely yours
Heinz
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Another of my favorites. Nice rifles. Thanks for sharing the pics. :)
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Good looking rifle Heinz. The Model 86 is the next Winchester on my wish list. I'm in the process of saving up for one but I have a ways to go. I love the feel of there action. It's built to handle some hefty cartridges but it's still as smooth as greased glass! Anyway, thanks for posting the pic.
Josie
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Thank you very much friends, not a Model 1876, but I like my Mod. 1873 rifle, cal. 38-40 too, and what is your opinion on my
Mod 1894 rifle, cal.30-30, manufactorid in 1907? Is one of the first barrels for smokless powder "nickel steel barrel, especially for smokless powder" is written at the left side of the barrel.
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Mod 1873
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Great collectiton, Hienz. :)
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Very nice rifles Heinz. They look like they're all in really good shape.
Josie
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Howdy fellas. I know this isn't a model 76 but I figured you might enjoy seeing an old Winchester just the same. Here's the 86 I picked up recently. Manufactured in 1894 it is 45-70 caliber with a 24" half octagon barrel and a half magazine. You can still notice a little bit of the original case colors around the loading gate and on the endcap and underside of the lever.
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/model%2086%20winchester/100_2143.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/model%2086%20winchester/100_2146.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/model%2086%20winchester/100_2126.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/model%2086%20winchester/100_2134.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/model%2086%20winchester/100_2133.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/model%2086%20winchester/100_2128.jpg)
Here it is along with my 76 rifle that I posted pics of earlier and a model 94 rifle in 32-40 caliber that was manufactured in 1902.
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/winchesters/100_2142.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/winchesters/100_2140.jpg)
(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b469/chriswenner/winchesters/100_2147.jpg)
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Josey,
That's a very nice '86 with exceptional wood. Have you pulled the buttstock? My guess is that the lower tang and the upper tang channel in the stock are marked with an "X". The number of X's denotes the grade of the "special order" wood. You probably already knew all of this.
Very nice.
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That's a great looking trio you have there, Josie. Super 86! Thanks for posting the pics for us to lust over! ;D
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Thanks Buck! Thanks Griz! When I first got this rifle I thought the same thing about the wood Buck. I did know that Winchester marked there stocks with X's to denote the grade of wood. I didn't know where to find this notation however. I tried pulling the butt stock but couldn't get it off and I don't want to force it. I'm assuming all you have to remove is the two large screws, one in the top tang and one in the lower tang but I took them out and the stock doesn't even feel loose so I'm not sure if there is something else that holds it or not. ??? Anyway, I'm glad you liked the pics fellas! Talk to ya later.
Josie
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here's mine, 1881. 45-60
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Very nice, wofat! Thanks for posting the pic. :)
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I have to agree with Griz, that's a good looking 76.
Josie
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Greetings!
I stumbled upon this site while searching for rifles used by the Royal Northwest Mounted Police... My grandfather served
with them around 1906 to 1909. (Sgt.) I recently inherited the rifle he carried with him on his adventures out West,
particularly near Fort Whoop-Up. The thing is, it's NOT a 76, or 86, or a 73, but a 94! Made in 1906, judging by the
serial number.
I have a couple of photos of him shooting it when it was brand-new, and a couple new shots of the rifle itself.
Actually, it's a saddle-ring carbine, with a tang sight, calibre 25/35. Stamped into the forend is his regimental number.
I can find NO documentation that would indicate that the RNWMP (not NWMP) actually purchased these carbines for issue.
Does anyone have any information on the Model 1894 used in RNWMP service?
Great site, by the way!
KarlB
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There were no model 1894 Winchesters purchased by or issued to the NWMP, RNWMP or the RCMP.
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That's what I thought! But nevertheless, here's a picture of him carrying it!
Perhaps, privately purchased, it was permitted to use as a service rifle??
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/Gunrunner45/Grandpa1.jpg)
And one of him shooting it. In 1906:
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/Gunrunner45/Grandpa2.jpg)
KarlB
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Hi, Shrapnel.
I have had a couple of members of the 76 forum contact me in regards to the loss of some of the pics you had posted in the originals thread. Any possibliity of getting those reposted? Folks sure enjoy them. :)
Thanks, and come "visit" when you can.
Grizzly Adams
Evidently Photobucket lost a few 1876 pictures I had posted, so here are some more. The octagon is a 45-60 and the round barrel is a 45-75 stamped "W.F. Sheard, Livingston, Montana". They have both taken game and the 45-75 even went to Alaska on a bear hunt...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_1026.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_0209.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/100_3113.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1077.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1081.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1080.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1083.jpg)
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Great pics! Thanks for putting them back up for us, Sharpnel. :)
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KarlB,
It's pretty clear from the photos that he isn't wearing his Mountie uniform, so my guess is that these photos were taken while he was not on duty and that both the Winchester and the pistol were his private purchase firearms.
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KarlB,
It's pretty clear from the photos that he isn't wearing his Mountie uniform, so my guess is that these photos were taken while he was not on duty and that both the Winchester and the pistol were his private purchase firearms.
I would say it is a fair guess that adherence to uniform regs slipped a lot when away from barracks, given the diverse duties that were performed on patrol.
A great source for the life of the mountie in the late 1800's is Superintendent Richard Burton Deane's "Mounted Life in Canada: a Record of Thirty-One Years Service" published in 1916. You can download a copy here:
http://www.archive.org/details/mountedpolicelif00deanuoft
You can also download an audio version here:
http://librivox.org/mounted-police-life-in-canada-a-record-of-thirty-one-years-service-1916/
I just finished listening to it a few days ago. It is quite long, but rich in details. The reader's voice took some getting used to.
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I agree with you, but the question pertains to the 1894 Winchester carbine being issued by the RNWMP as a service weapon and the answer is no. The only Winchesters every purchased by and issued to the NWMP were the model 1876 carbine and the model 70.
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Very nice rifles Shrapnel. It's very cool to see someone hunting and getting game with these old rifles!
KarlB those are some really great old pics of your grandfather. It's always neat to see turn of the century photos such as those. If it'd be possible I'd like to see some more recent pics of the rifle itself if you have any.
Take care,
Josie
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Wow! Thanks a lot for sharing knowledge and links! I'm trying to do some research on Grandad's activities at the
turn of the century, there's a LOT of work to do! And yes, I was told that the uniform regulations did tend to be
relaxed away from base camp. I understand that the gloves were a gift from an indian chief, (Blackfoot, I think)
and that he often spent weeks at a time alone on patrol. I think my aunt still has those gloves! He has also written
several stories that are preserved in the RCMP Archives, and I'm trying to get copies.
I do have a few recent pictures of the carbine, one showing his regimental number stamped in the forend:
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/Gunrunner45/2535right.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/Gunrunner45/2535left.jpg)
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/Gunrunner45/2535regimentalnumber.jpg)
Thanks very much for your input!
KarlB
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That's a great carbine KarlB. You're very lucky to have a gun with family history.
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Very nice, Karl. Thanks for sharing this with us. :)
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That's a nice rifle KarlB and I have to say I agree with Buck. Owning any antique Winchester is cool but when you know the history of the gun that's very special. Also, not sure if your interested but it may be worth a look.....in the book Winchester an American Legend by R.L. Wilson on page 354 there is a photo of rifles associated with the RCMP. One of the rifles appears to be based on the model 94 action. Apparently Winchester made 32 of these guns in 30-30 caliber that they loaned to the RCMP for them to use in filming a documentary for there centennial anniversary in 1973. In the book it says these carbines were called the MPX. That's the only information I can find about them in the book. At any rate it's a pretty neat picture showing a couple of the rifles associated with the RCMP.
Take care,
Josie
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Thanks, guys... This place is a wealth of information!
Josie,thanks for telling me about that book!
I've just ordered a copy from Amazon.
I was once told that a collector should have TEN books for
every rifle (or other firearm) he owns. That would explain
my hundreds of gun books. LOL!
KarlB
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I just put an original winchester sight on my 45-60...
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1136.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1140.jpg)
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/bridgershooters/109_1137.jpg)
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Greetings!
I stumbled upon this site while searching for rifles used by the Royal Northwest Mounted Police... My grandfather served
with them around 1906 to 1909. (Sgt.) I recently inherited the rifle he carried with him on his adventures out West,
particularly near Fort Whoop-Up. The thing is, it's NOT a 76, or 86, or a 73, but a 94! Made in 1906, judging by the
serial number.
I have a couple of photos of him shooting it when it was brand-new, and a couple new shots of the rifle itself.
Actually, it's a saddle-ring carbine, with a tang sight, calibre 25/35. Stamped into the forend is his regimental number.
I can find NO documentation that would indicate that the RNWMP (not NWMP) actually purchased these carbines for issue.
Does anyone have any information on the Model 1894 used in RNWMP service?
Great site, by the way!
KarlB
In Arms & Accoutrements of the Mounted Police 1873 - 1973, 1982 Phillips & Klancher some model 94's are shown on pages 62 to 64. No serial numbers are recorded. All 94's mentioned are carbines in .30-30. Apparently they were used on northern patrols prior to the 1970's. They were also apparently used by the air division, formed in 1937, and twelve were on record with them in 1973. There is also mention of model 64's, also in .30-30, as "a secondary Mounted Police shoulder arm." It is dicey to say a certain arm was NOT used by the Mounted Police, as some real oddities show up. For example Sam Steele promoted the c96 Mauser based on his service in South Africa. Some Marlin model 99's are known but without any real paper track.
This .25-35 SRC model 94 is very likely a private purchase arm. Its use on patrol was probably not discouraged.
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Thank you, Sir Charles, for the info! Every bit learned is another step forward
in me compiling some sort of history of Grandad's adventures. And not JUST
in the RNWMP, either - he was quite a character, very talented. He was a
verterinary surgeon, accomplished musician and writer, and his brother-in-law
was Robert Stanley Weir, who wrote the English words to our National Anthem.
KarlB
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Just spent some time looking through the posts. Very Nice pictures everyone.
Matt
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On the way back from a SASS match in Alberta stopped Ft. Steele NWMP. In the Officers Qrt. behind glass, they had this rack of NWMP 76 carbines, I noticed that one had the standard rear sight instead of the meter sight. Did the NWMP buy any standard carbines?
(http://crotchetyoldgrouch.smugmug.com/CAS/SASS-2011-Canadian/i-bmhxfCX/0/L/IMG4315-L.jpg) (http://crotchetyoldgrouch.smugmug.com/CAS/SASS-2011-Canadian/18429533_dRG3gW#1453772221_bmhxfCX-A-LB)
(http://crotchetyoldgrouch.smugmug.com/CAS/SASS-2011-Canadian/i-kX3cg9W/0/L/IMG4316-L.jpg) (http://crotchetyoldgrouch.smugmug.com/CAS/SASS-2011-Canadian/18429533_dRG3gW#1421617897_kX3cg9W-A-LB)
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The answer to your question is "yes". The very first order that Winchester recieved from the NWMP was in 1878. It is beleived that at least 50 carbines were shipped in this order, to I. G. Baker in Ft. Benton, M.T. (Montana Territory). The NWMP ended up purchasing all of their 1876 carbines and cases of ammunition through I. G. Baker & Co. until 1885. This first order consisted of standard "trade" guns. In other words, these were carbines sold to the general public. All of the early 1876 carbines had the short non-adjustable flip up leaf sight. It was a slightly larger version of the same sight which was at that time, standard on the 1866 and 1873 model Winchester carbines. Not until 1882 was the Spanish meter sight made standard on the NWMP carbine. The gun in your photo must be an early one. Too bad you don't have any of the serial numbers from the guns in your photo.
Buck
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Hello to all the people,
first off, my true compliments for all these marvels of guns. Some of them make me with eyes out literally, they are fantastic to ssay the least !!!!
I post here the two Winchester '76 I do own currently, both found here in Italy with a great effort (almost impossible to rely on abroad, for many a reason).
A 40-60 Centennial from the late 1887, and a 50-95 Express (nice but, not-professionally reblued) from the mid-1887 (I think, s/n is 566XX).
They are together with a Mod. 1866 carbine.
Possibly the later refinishing of the Express is what made it stay in a still reacheable pricing range for me, it should be a interesting gun with its British proof marks and the 22" barrel w/ half magazine! (A "big cats gun"?).
I like it anyway, means almost eight months of extra-time paying (!!!).
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Sorry, again pics are too small.
Cannot get them in a normal size. Maybe I'm so much unable as for the internet things ?...
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Hello to all the people,
first off, my true compliments for all these marvels of guns. Some of them make me with eyes out literally, they are fantastic to ssay the least !!!!
I post here the two Winchester '76 I do own currently, both found here in Italy with a great effort (almost impossible to rely on abroad, for many a reason).
A 40-60 Centennial from the late 1887, and a 50-95 Express (nice but, not-professionally reblued) from the mid-1887 (I think, s/n is 566XX).
They are together with a Mod. 1866 carbine.
Possibly the later refinishing of the Express is what made it stay in a still reacheable pricing range for me, it should be a interesting gun with its British proof marks and the 22" barrel w/ half magazine! (A "big cats gun"?).
I like it anyway, means almost eight months of extra-time paying (!!!).
Very nice collection, Scully fan! Both of the 76s are great. I especially like that 50-95 with the shotgun butt stock! Love those "cat guns." ;D Is that an original 1866?
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Hi Grizzly Adams, thank you.
The "Express" likes very much to me too, the only "shadow" being the re-bluing made so-so in not professional way (who knows by whom). The finish is top smooth and even, but with a totally wrong hint of blue - too much dark, even on the loading gate instead of "fire blue".
Yes the '66 is original in carbine conformation, just a slight varnish coat added much time ago.
Still a .44 Henry caliber, even with a s/n #167,3XX wich results in a late example of '66. Shipped from Winchester in late summer 1889.
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Here is my M1876 Winchester ,45-75 wcf. cal . 28 in. oct . bbl. Original Winchester tang sight . Along with the original Winchester loading tools . The old gun still shoots good with the 350 grn. lead cast from the original mould ,and 72 grn. 2ff black. It is still solid and sound .A trusted friend on the hunt . Still roars and will hit where you point it . I am happy to post it here along with these other fine rifles . Thanks.
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A lovely old 76, dusty texan! :) Thanks for posting her.
That's an fairly early loading tool with the spoon style handles. Have you tried making loads with it?
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Thanks Grizzly Adams .I do use the old reloading tools . They are in great shape for their age .Winchester had a good idea when they made these type tools ,they are easy to use and you always get the crimp in the right place . Thanks Dusty .
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Wish I knew the story behind this little rifle , looks like someone wanted a handy rifle long ago and this is what they came up with . It is still handy today . Thanks Dusty
The 1876 is a heavy rifle, and I suspect someone got tired carrying it around. Looks pretty handy! ;)
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I am trying to figure out how to insert a picture of my 76....help
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You will need to sign up with an outfit like Photobucket. Download your pics to Photobucket and then copy the "img code" for the pic, and past to your post on this forum. :) Give me a shout if you need more help.
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Howdy Boys, Had a chance to take my Winchester 1876 /45-75wcf out shootin at the range . Load was 350grn. bullet out of an original mold,std.win. primer loaded with original Winchester loading tool, and 72 grn. of 2ff Swiss .Target @ 75yd,standing off hand. Not target grade accuracy but a great old vintage hunting rifle . My favorite I think. ..... Dusty.
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Nice looking rifle there, dusty! Pretty good shooting too. :)
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Thank's Grizz... The rifle,load can do better ,but had me on the trigger off hand......Dusty.
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Say now that`s a handy lookin rifle Dusty, grats on getting it. 8)
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Thank's Pitchy Ole Pard. Gonna try and get it out in a day or two, for some range testin. Will post the result's when I get done. Cool video Pitchy, as always.....Dusty.
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Hey Dusty Texan:
Saw that you just acquired a 40 cal 1876. They shoot great! Hope you enjoy handloading Just traded off my 1876 Winchester 40-65 WCF Shot it quite a bit with cast bullets and Starline brass. Before Starline brass I had to form my 40-65 brass out of 45-70 cases. Even used Hornady .405 Winchester 300 gr jacketed bullets. Also shoot em through my Marlin 1881 40-60. The Marlin chamber neck had to be reamed to accept a cast bullet of groove diameter. Marlin set up their 40 cal rifles to shoot a heeled bullet. The Marlin shoots teriffic with the Hornady 300gr jacketed bullets. Shot a nice 7 pt white tail @ 125yds. The 1876 had a windgauge front sight and a tang rear sight. It was set up more for target. When you get ready, I could share some of my loading data on the 40-60/40-65 WCF. Marlin called it 40-60 Marlin Winchester 40-65 WCF is the same.
Trying to build a 50-95 Express 1876 rifle. Have an original receiver. Trying to find a new octagonal cut rifled barrel. Wonder if any readers of this post would know of a 50 cal cut rifled blank? Green Mountain makes button rifled barrels in various configurations but no broached or cut rifled.
Hope you enjoy your new 1876 Winchester!
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Very nice 1876 carbine's there Otis,like that rack also.Like to see more of them. Hey Reddog Charlie your right ,the 40-60wcf is a very fine cartridge. Always thought they were better than most give em credit for. Have found the 40-60 wcf, with a 260 or 280 gr.lead bullet, to be very accurate and pleasant to shoot and load for. My cut- down 1876 40/60 has been my rifle of choice this yr,backing up guest hunter's, and I feel comfortable that I can stop about any critter that would need it. Will get to do some hunting for myself ,soon and the 40-60 will again be my choice. Thank's for offering your info on loading the old .40. Would be glad to exchange thought's on the 40s. Like to see more of your .50 build,,,,,,,,,,,,,Dusty
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Howdy Red Dog,any luck finding a cut rifled .50 cal. barrel?How is the 50-95 build going?,,,,,Dusty
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I recently acquired an original 1876 rifle. 1877 manufacture serial #16xx, 23" oct. barrel, set trigger, dust cover (as per Cody letter), sling swivels, and whats odd is a grooved forend. Also, serial number is stamped on underside of barrel and on the bolt. Is this common? Any thoughts on grooved forend? It is milled to fit the barrel flats perfectly but no markings. Buttstock has 3-digit number which matches number on lower tang. Lower tang also has last 2 digits of serial number on it. I'll get some pics shortly. Thanks in advance.
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Hello Levers, sounds like a very interesting 1876. Does the 23" barrel letter? With that sr# it is one of the early ones with a lid / dust cover.With sling swiveles and all the other non standard features , sounds like you have a Special order gun, that would explain the numbers on the tang sort of . But sr# numbers on the bolt and underside of the barrel is very uncommon, usually under the barrel there are inspection numbers only, as far as I know. Of course you know the numbers on the rear stock under the top tang are build numbers indicating that thestock is original to the rifle . Having numbers on the forearm ( and I dont like to say never) but numbers on the forearm are nonexistent! , I and I'll bet others here would really like to see some pics of this rifle. The grooved foreaem ? I'm not quite sure what you are describing. Would really like to see a pic. Congratulations you have a very unique rifle.,,,,DT
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The only things mentioned in the letter are:
Barrel: Octagon
Trigger: Set
Lid
Received in warehouse February 21, 1878 and shipped from warehouse on June 13, 1879. Interesting it sat in the warehouse for so long.
The wood grain and color of the forearm match the buttsock and the cut in the forearm matches the octagon barrel perfectly. The grooved forearm looks kind of like the forearm on a Win. 1895 SRC except not quite as deeply grooved. I will get some pics up tonight.
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http://imageshack.com/a/img907/3661/A58nFR.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img633/9557/uUcNvX.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img911/3220/CKNIE9.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img633/2710/Ej2Vu3.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img903/4526/CqVrcb.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img905/3289/n9Mj2k.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img910/6554/2yWpLw.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img905/4735/1rnYOL.jpg
The gun in question is the gun in foreground of last pic. Other 76 in last pic is third model standard 40-60 rifle.
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Hello all,
I'm new here and I just registered. It seems like this forum is the best for me to progress with my Model 1876.
It's a 50-95 Express, half octogonal barrelled with a shotgun type buttstock. Its tubular magazine was shortened to make it a half magazine, and it's currently missing the dust-cover. I read parts from chaparral could fit? What do you people think? And...I almost forgot to mention this: The pistol-grip stock has been broken....and roughly glued back together. I'm from province of Quebec and had never seen a model 1876 before this one caught my eye!
-Eric
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Love the rifle, shame about the butt stock. It looks to be well used and cared for except for the stock.
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Hello pistol1911, the rifle is actually pitted all over and yes, it's a shame.
It needs a complete restoration and I'm looking for some replacement parts. (dust-cover and full-length mag.)
It has a real potential and I should keep it until I can afford the special cares of a specialist.
Being a machinist myself, I have to investigate what I may do myself or leave to a professional restorer.
It's been in my safe for 6 months now...
-Eric
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Frichtie,
You may want to try Homestead Parts (www.homesteadparts.com). They have original, as well as manufacture new, parts for original Winchester and other firearms. They do have dust covers in stock, as I just checked their web page.
Good luck with the restoration, and keep us posted.
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Thank you for the infos. I think the right to do first, is to get the parts I need. Then I can begin disassemble the rifle and take each metal part to the right guy for treatment. (Color-case hardening etc...)
I'm in no hurry.
18 monts ago, this very rifle, along with a model 1886, was put on the desk of a police officer by a previous owner who simply wanted to get rid of it. The officer sent him back home, with his rifles, after telling him that he should try to sell them otherwise they will be sent to a foundry for total destruction! HE GAVE THEM TO MY UNCLE. Who ultimately sold them to me! Thank you officer.
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"SAY,,,WHAT!!!! Now how cool was that !!! CONGRADS. Make us "PROUD",& ENJOY.
Hootmix.
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That is special! Very nice.
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Mr. Dusty that is a very nice line up from the front of ya safe!!
Thanks for sharing!
Hope clean up after the recent storm is going well and glad to see the 76s made it through with ya!!
PB
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Dusty,
You are a luck man. But I am certain you earned it. I know many of those have had your talented hands put them back into working order. Enjoy them.
BRS
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I do feel lucky Amigo's . The cleanup is getting along as well as can be .Cleaning a few 76's helps take my mind off of it .,,,DT
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Dusty,
If you run out of room in your safe for the "Queens", I just purchased another one and have plenty of spare room. I'll be happy to provide a nice, safe environment for any of them you don't have room for! I know you keep acquiring more of those lovelies, and you'll likely need more storage room at some time............... ::)
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Ha , may have to take you up on that BB , during the flood the wife got an eyeball of how many Winchesters was around the house . Now the cat is outa the bag! And with two more on the way , I may be needing a safe place for myself .,,,,,DT
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Come on over - plenty of room for all of y'all! ;D
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Greetings, I have been away from the fire a long spell.
This 1876 deluxe was shipped in September 1880 and is a .45-60 rifle with pistol grip and checkering, case hardened, plain trigger. I have wanted an 1876 deluxe for over 30 years. Finally got this one in October 2017 and it relit the fire to get me back into 1876 collecting.
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Wow that's a beautiful 1876 Boone May . ,,,,DT
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Wow that's a beautiful 1876 Boone May . ,,,,DT
WOW! No kidding. Very nice, sir.
CC Griff
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Sweat looking rifle. Hope it shoots as good as it looks!
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Very nice Boone May
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Nice day out, so the rifles and camera went out.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/010046471428/media/54529143262/medium/1556228048/enhance)
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My 1876 "shooter," an 1887 vintage .45-75 with 28 inch octagon barrel and set trigger. Bore is about a 9 out of 10, set trigger even works! Some bruises and dings in the stock, but otherwise a pretty nice old rifle. It has a Beach combination front sight. I'm a fool for set triggers and special sights. I'm going to install a graduated peep tang sight on it.
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My finger keeps slipping and hitting the buy button. ::) Just picked up this 1892 vintage .40-60 rifle with 30 inch barrel and set trigger. I would say the bore is a 9 out of 10. I have owned three other .40-60 1876's and all of them had bores like a sewer pipe. This is the best one I have owned, bore condition wise. This rifle has a Lyman #4 hunting front sight and sporting rear sight. It appears it had a tang sight at some point in its service life.
I have some .40-60 brass made by Buffalo Arms. They trimmed and resized Winchester .45-70 cases. They chamber and eject nicely from this rifle. Going to order some .406" Diameter 210 Grain FN 20-1 bullets from Buffalo Arms. I don't have dies but I do have a vintage Winchester 1880 reloading tool. It should work dandy for the small number of rounds I need to load. I only have 50 cases.
Now we just need some spring weather here in mountain west...
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My 1876 "shooter," an 1887 vintage .45-75 with 28 inch octagon barrel and set trigger. Bore is about a 9 out of 10, set trigger even works! Some bruises and dings in the stock, but otherwise a pretty nice old rifle. It has a Beach combination front sight. I'm a fool for set triggers and special sights. I'm going to install a graduated peep tang sight on it.
That is very nice. I'd like to find a 45-75 with set trigger in good condition like that.
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My finger keeps slipping and hitting the buy button. ::) Just picked up this 1892 vintage .40-60 rifle with 30 inch barrel and set trigger. I would say the bore is a 9 out of 10. I have owned three other .40-60 1876's and all of them had bores like a sewer pipe. This is the best one I have owned, bore condition wise. This rifle has a Lyman #4 hunting front sight and sporting rear sight. It appears it had a tang sight at some point in it's service life.
I have some .40-60 brass made by Buffalo Arms. They trimmed and resized Winchester .45-70 cases. They chamber and eject nicely from this rifle. Going to order some .406" Diameter 210 Grain FN 20-1 bullets from Buffalo Arms. I don't have dies but I do have a vintage Winchester 1880 reloading tool. It should work dandy for the small number of rounds I need to load. I only have 50 cases.
Now we just need some spring weather here in mountain west...
Good looking rifle ,finding one with a good + bore is better that outer finish in my book . Hope it shoots good as it looks .,,,DT
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Hello all.
I have recently discovered your wonderful forum and I am looking forward to participating in the discussions.
I have a vintage .45-60 Model 1876 that was made in 1884. It was given to my grandfather, when he was a young man, by an old gentleman who used it to hunt buffalo on the plains. This was probably in the late 30's or early 40's. My grandfather used it to hunt deer for a while. For the 60ish years of my life, it has been fired only once.
I have been reloading modern cartridges for a while now and I got the crazy idea to bring this old family heirloom back to life by refurbishing it and loading some soft-shooting black powder rounds. It would be a fitting tribute to the rifle and it's previous owners to allow the old girl to speak once again. I am excited to learn from the experts here as I embark on this journey.
At this point, I have completely disassembled the rifle, cleaned everything with Hoppes #9, then reconditioned every part with Eezox as I reassembled the rifle. I think I found dust from the great plains dustbowl and maybe some buffalo hairs inside (yuck). There are five pounds of Goex FFG and a set of 45-60 dies from RCBS inbound. I plan to buy some cast lead bullets and new Starline 45-70 brass when they become available online. I have three boxes of vintage Winchester and Remington UMC ammo. I have carefully measured the dimensions of all 20 Winchester rounds, so I have a good idea of the parameters needed to roll my own.
I am excited to be here and to have an opportunity to learn from the experts on the forum.
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A few more pics.
The bottom pic is the first swab through the tubular magazine. There was 137 years of dirt, powder residue and gun oil.
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Great looking rifle! Hows the bore? I don't know what you mean by refurbishing, but as far as the outside, I wouldn't touch it other than normal cleaning. That's history right there, don't ruin it by sanding, refinishing, ect. But, it's your rifle, do what you think is best. Welcome to the group.
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The bore is in pretty good shape for 137 years old. There are a few small pits, but not bad. My goal is to preserve the rifle in the best possible condition. There was a little surface rust on a few pieces that required 0000 steel wool, but most cleaned up with just a plastic brush.
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It's a bit hard to tell but it appears that your rifle may have "nickel plated trimmings" as the Winchester catalog referred to it. It looks like you are well on your way to making that old smoke wagon live again.
Welcome to the forum!
https://centerofthewest.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/
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That is a perfect , perfect , example of a 76 !!! you are a lucky man !! ;D
I really like the pics. of the ammo , can you give the " OAL " of the cartridge & ( guess ) the depth of the bullet ? And " Welcome ".
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
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That looks like a really good bore. Be sure to slug it. Should be a great shooter!
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Welcome BillKilgore , nice rifle and even better its a family heirloom . ,,,DT
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It's a bit hard to tell but it appears that your rifle may have "nickel plated trimmings" as the Winchester catalog referred to it. It looks like you are well on your way to making that old smoke wagon live again.
Welcome to the forum!
https://centerofthewest.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/
I was wondering about the finish because there is virtually no blue left on internal areas of the receiver that would not see wear. The springs that control the lever and the hammer are still blued. Were there certain pieces of hardware that were always colored case hardened (hammer, trigger, lever)? It is difficult to understand the the typical finish when you have only a single example and a few photos on the internet.
"Smoke Wagon"?! I have never heard that term before, but I like it. This old girl may have just picked up a nickname.
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That is a perfect , perfect , example of a 76 !!! you are a lucky man !! ;D
I really like the pics. of the ammo , can you give the " OAL " of the cartridge & ( guess ) the depth of the bullet ? And " Welcome ".
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
Yes sir, Slamfire. Of the 20 original Winchester rounds, the average overall length is 2.2654". Standard deviation in length is 0.0566". Min is 2.2450 and max is 2.5050". The image below presents averages of the 20 rounds. Some cases have a small ridge about 0.4" from the case neck. I think this may be where the brass was compressed around the base of the bullet. You can barely see a faint line in the brass at the white arrow.
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Welcome BillKilgore , nice rifle and even better its a family heirloom . ,,,DT
Thank you. It is precious to me.
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I have one box of Winchester and two boxes of Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridges. I am thinking about selling one box of Rem-UMC to fund the restoration of the Smoke Wagon. Any ideas how much a box of vintage 45-60 cartridges is worth?
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That looks like a really good bore. Be sure to slug it. Should be a great shooter!
I need to read-up on how to slug the bore. Is this to confirm the bore diameter?
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BillKilgore, thank you ,, that is a very fine example and nicely done, you now have the " 76 BUG " . Your pics are almost identical to way I am loading my 45-60 ( thanks to DT ),, enjoy !!!
coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
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I need to read-up on how to slug the bore. Is this to confirm the bore diameter?
Yes, to confirm the bore diameter. you will likely be shooting .458/459 size bullets.
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I slugged the old girl tonight. The bore is 0.4570".
Now to check out Missouri Bullets for a suitable 300 grain projectile.
;D
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A few pics of the clean and reassembled rifle.
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It's a bit hard to tell but it appears that your rifle may have "nickel plated trimmings" as the Winchester catalog referred to it. It looks like you are well on your way to making that old smoke wagon live again.
Welcome to the forum!
https://centerofthewest.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/
Boone, where can I find more info about "nickel plated trimmings" and other 1876 options? I have searched online and found little other than blued and CCH finish options.
Thanks
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Welcome to the forum.
You will want to add The Winchester Book to your reference library if you don't already have it. It has been printed many times and can be found on Amazon. It has a chapter on the 1876 and other chapters on options and special order features.
The best single reference on the 1876 rifle is The Winchester Model 1876 "Centennial" Rifle by Herbert Houze. It only had one printing back in 2001 and is pricey today. I see three on Amazon now, starting at $199.
I looked at the letter for your rifle and it doesn't list nickel plating but that doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't done at the factory. The surviving warehouse records don't always show all features of a rifle. That would have been on the order form which have been lost to history.
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A slight correction of terms: when you slug the barrel, what you are measuring on the outside diameter of the slug is the groove diameter, which is the maximum diameter of the rifling grooves, and from which you can determine what bullet diameter you choose. (Some say the bullet diameter should be groove+.001" or just groove diameter. The "best" is whatever gives the best accuracy and least leading, and can also be affected by the bullet alloy/hardness.
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I've been working at this 76 for some time.Its is in 40/60.There is no sighn of A seriel # on it Has anyone ever come across this?
Largo
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Hey Largo, yup y'a have. Sometimes the # can be found inside the lower tang or a 3 -digit number can be on the "original" toggle links & on the bolt.
I would be interested in knowing the depth of your chamber to the lands.
coffee's ready, Hootmix.
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Just got this 50 Express...
(https://i.imgur.com/nHqa0Qy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h4iMayd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6F8uFQv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UrQphNl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lisU1EK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ESBCwWp.jpg)
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Very nice, Congratulations! Sweet looking rifle!
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What a beauty , and a shooter to boot .,,,DT
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What a beauty , and a shooter to boot .,,,DT
Yes, I got it out to the range already and I could get this group at 100 yards with those sights and 68 year old eyes...
(https://i.imgur.com/wOjhyol.jpg)
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That's a daisy, Shrapnel. Those are Freund patent sights. He had shops in several different cities including Cheyenne during the frontier era. He is known for customizing Sharps rifles in addition to Winchesters.
That sling looks like a GI issue type for a 1903 or M-1 rifle.
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Loading some very light loads to start shouting my 1876 built 1876 in 45/75.
Hasn’t been shot since 1972. A 26” Octagon, set trigger and long range sight.