Pedersolli Sharps Sight Question???

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Boys

Just discovered this section of this board. Great! I have a very specific sight question. A little over a year ago I bought a Pedersolli Silhouette Model Sharps in 45-70 from Dixie Gunworks. This model features a 30" barrel, doubleset triggers, a shotgun style butt plate, pistol grip, and plain uncheckered wood. No fancy forearm cap.

I bought an inexpensive Pedersolli front sight with inserts, non adjustable for windage and no spirit level. I am quite happy with the rifle and the front sight I chose for it. It shoots better than I can, and my poor eyesight pretty much precludes me spending top dollar on sights anyway, I can't see well enough, even with my glasses on, to take advantage of the pinpoint accuracy that better sights might make possible. I just can't see the targets that well.

The question is about my rear tang sight. I bought a relatively inexpensive Pedersolli tang rear sight. This one is not the Soulle type, it does not have the large horizontal barrel at the bottom for extended windage. It has fine and course adjustment for windage, and has a pretty standard vernier for elevation. The sight cost $180. I mounted one of those fancy eyecups that allows you to select different diameter apertures on the sight. The machining and workmanship on this sight is nothing to write home about, but it is adequate. I do like the eyecup.

The problem is, this sight, only tilts forward. I have examined the mounting system, and the spring that controls the amount of resistance to movement, and the way the flat that engages the spring is designed, the sight will only tilt forward from the vertical position. This is fine for the sight to spring forward under recoil, and lowers the profile when casing the gun. It also makes it unnecessary to buy one of those little leather sacks to protect the comb of the stock. But it makes it impossible to clean the bore from the breech end. The sight is always in the way of a cleaning rod. I can use a bore snake from the chamber, but I always like to first wash out most of the fouling with a cleaning rod and wet patches. I have to clean from the muzzle. This isn't really a problem, I use a rod with a muzzle guard, but it would be more convenient to have the option to clean the bore from the chamber end.

Does anyone else use this specific sight? Have they noticed this problem? Is my sight a fluke?

I'm thinking of replacing the sight with one that is more convenient for cleaning from the chamber. One that will tilt both forward and back. The ranges I shoot at are generally not more than 300 yards, and my eyesight isn't good enough to see much farther anyway. Without spending an arm and a leg on more sight than I really need, can anyone make some specific recommendations on a possible replacement tang sight?

Thanks.

[Will Ketchum]

How does the sight mount to the tang?  Many shooters dismount their sights when not shooting.  (Ala Quigley) This protects the sights and makes cleaning easier.

Will Ketchum

[Driftwood Johnson]

The sight is screwed down to the tang with two screws, just like any other tang sight. Removing it to clean the gun would mean I would have to re align it, get out my level to readjust it to stop in the vertical position, and re zero and shoot a bunch of targets to sight the rifle in again every time. Thanks for the question, but not an option.

I really want to know if anyone else has a similar problem with theirs. I'm pretty sure I want to replace it.

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[Will Ketchum]

No I'm not familiar with it.  But what I was suggesting was to remove it from the base.  Not remove the entire sight.  Most sights I have seen are made to remove the stem from the base.  There is no need to re-zero if you do this.

Will Ketchum

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Boys, thanks for the advice so far.

Thanks for the link Seth. I'm pretty sure a screwdriver would be needed to dismount it like you say, if I could do it at all. I'll take a look tonight and see. I'll also take a photo or two so you can see what I'm talking about.

[Ol Gabe]

D.J.,
Know what you mean, the procedure to make it work is a little befuddling at first, but try this and I think you'll find it works and the sights will give you years of quality service:
1. Loosen the horizontal screw on the bottom of the Vernier post (don't remove!) til the post easily swings back and forth and rests easily on the recvr. and then the stock.
2. Lube the same horizontal screw wiith a drop or two of Ballistol or another liquid lube, retighten then loosen to lube the screw shaft and tube.
3. Adjust the screw by tightening and loosening til the post is just barely held upright when the spring 'cliks' into the detent slot (below the screw hole in the post base) to hold the post in the correct upright user-friendly position.
4. Test by pulling the post all the way back so it easily rests on the stock then all the way forward to the recvr. as in #1, if it does this you are almost there.
5. Readjust the tension on the screw slowly til it does this without much effort but still falls into the detent and holds without moving back and forth or appearing to be 'sloppy'.
6. If this does not work, take the sight base off, turn it around and remount the entire assembly as it may have been mounted backwards the first time, this would cause the post to be too close to the recvr. and thusly exascerbate the extendability of the post.
This won't take more than 5 minutes to do and you'll have no trouble after that unless that particular Vernier post sight was damaged in production or handling, it happens, after all Pedersoli makes 1,000's of them every year. If so, get another one with the improved Hadley, you'll see better and be able to hit those Big Bulls out to 1,000 yards when you come out to Ackley, Iowa for the Strand's Stand Mid & Long Range Shoots this year.
Yep, 200-1,000 yards! You are gonna love it!
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe
Proud Family Sponsor of the CVR STRAND'S STAND MID & LONG RANGE SHOOTS and the 2006 BILLY DIXON LONG RANGE SHOOT held in New South Wales, Australia. We support BPCR Long Range Shooting Worldwide!

[Guage Rod]

Ole Gabe took the words right out of my mouth.  The sight is probably mounted backwards. Is this A DP tang sight?  I bough the Dirt Cheep version advertised In Cabela's about a year ago.  It was doing the same thing yours is.  I decided I must have it on backwards after fiddling with it for a while.  I even went so far as to file another detent in the pivot wheel of the stantion (Vertical framework), and now have the ability to have the sight stayput about 30 degrees from vertical as well as vertical so I can shoot over the rear fixed sight.  I have a very poor mans version of a Sharps, put out by Pedreti for EMF.  I do not recommend that anyone purchase one.  At the time I bought mine I was quite new to the sport and did not know better, I did not pay a lot for it, but did trade 3 good shooting Ruger black Hawks for it.  I would wait if I had to do it all over again and shop for a bargin in the Pedrisoli.
I broke my extractor wright off of the get go (Not heat treated Properly) sent it in to EMF for reworking.  They were pretty good about fixing the gun but it was in the shop for about 3 months.  EMF was good to work with and easy to talk to.  Prior to returning the gun, they bench tested it and sighted it in for me after the repairs were made.

 I hope to make it out to some of long range shoots this season.  I have a lot of practicing to do between now and then.

Vaya con Dios   

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Boys

I took some pictures, to maybe make the situation a little bit more plain.

This is a picture right out of the Dixie catalog of my rear sight:



Notice the orientation in the picture. They are showing it leaning about 45 Degress forward, with the sightcup to the rear. This is not the dirt cheap one that Dixie was selling, this one is one grade above that.

The next 2 pictures are of the sight in the straight upright shooting position:





This one is a little bit more of a closeup:



These last two are of the sight folded forward all the way down:





Please excuse any gridue that shows up in the photos, the flash highlighted it.

I really don't think I have it mounted backwards, I mounted it just as you see it straight out of the box, without reversing anything, and the Dixie photo plainly shows it leaning forward, with the longer section of the base to the front and the eyecup to the rear.

The first two photos show the tensioning spring pretty clearly. The flash tinted it a little bit reddish. It really isn't rusted. I tried messing with the tension to see if I could get the sight to lean backwards. No go. The spring is mounted by a slot, and the tensioning screw passes through the slot. The slot is to adjust the position of the spring to keep the sight perpendicular when in the detent position. If I loosen the screw at all, the spring slides around and will not stay in place, so the screw has to be snugged down and the spring at max tension to maintain any repeatability.

The last photo shows the slot detent the spring pops into pretty clearly. The geometry of the slot and the spring is what prevents the staff from leaning back past vertical at all.

The two screws the staff pivots on are pretty clear in the pictures too. One knurled slotted screw threads into the other one. It takes two screwdrivers to apply tension on them to keep the staff from flopping around. I really don't know if the screw Seth pointed out would fit, or help at all.

That's the photos, I'm pretty resigned to either living with the sight as it is, or replacing it with something better.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks for the comments so far.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Joss House

There is just one slot on the rounded bottom of the staff. The second item you see below the slot is the end of the spring. I suppose I could grind down that end or the spring, bevelling or chamfering it so that the spring would pop out and allow the staff to rotate backwards like I want. Not sure if I want to try that, might ruin everything.

Thanks for the answers so far boys, even if I haven't arrived at a solution, you've been helpful.

[Ol Gabe]

Good pics, very helpful. I'm going to pull my sights out later on today and try to replicate your problem, I'll post back as soon as I figure it out, but it is mounted correctly and not backwards.
Bottom line, the sight is a 'Creedmoor' style with a Soule/windage-style platform and should be movable to the rearward position. It looks the same as the ones pictured on the Davide Pedersoli website and in their catalog.
Not to fret, between all of us we'll get 'r done! Don't ya just love 'long distance maintenance'?
Best regards and good screwing, er, repairing!
'Ol Gabe

[Ol Gabe]

D. J.,
Well, just got back from the shop and after trying to recreate your 'problem' on all 3 of mine, I am now totally baffled as to how to make it do what it is doing to you without tearing the tang sight completely apart and trying to rebuild it, soooo...
I now, knowing my own limitations and with tempered logic, am bowing to a far more intelligent source and suggest that you go to: www.bpcr.net 
This BPCR Forum is frequented by many of the top Mid & Long Range folks and they really know their stuff! Dick Trenk, the US Rep for Davide Pedersoli, posts there every so often so he might see your question.
Register and then pose the same question and pics, it is a great forum and I know you'll get a lot of info. Hope this helps unlesss somebody else has stumbled onto a quick fix, if so I'm ready to learn!
Best regards and good reading!
'Ol Gabe

[Ol Gabe]

D.J.,
Any luck yet? Please keep us posted.
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe

[klw]

Once upon a time I bought what was then the very best Pedersoli Soule type sight available.  Think it was for a 38-55 rolling block.  Try as I might I just could not put it on the gun.  Oh I could attach it but it wasn't straight up and tilted, if I remember correctly, only forward which seemed backwards to me.  Finally I took the gun and the sight to a good local gunsmith.  He got it attached better and it was sort of vertical in the up position but was a long way from perfect.  It wasn't the quality of his workmanship.  I was the sight.

Both before and after this I've stuck to MVA's.

Your pictures were really nice.  What camera did you use and how many megapixels?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Boys

Haven't really made any more progress on the problem, I'm just kind of letting things sit for a while.

KLW: My camera is a real cheapie. I don't even remember what brand right now. It only cost a little over $100. Don't know how many megathingies either. But probably not very many. But it does take good pictures when I have enough light and stand still.