Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Powder Room - CAS reloading => Topic started by: RRio on July 06, 2022, 09:56:46 PM
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Looking for a powder that is similar to Trail Boss with a medium to high volume. Any suggestions?
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Well, nothing is exactly "similar" unless you stretch the definition. But since TB isn't available, let's stretch. Lee's website has a chart that lists the VMD, volume measure density, of most powders. The higher the number, the fluffier. TB is .2172 and nothing else is close, but the Clays and Red Dot are both higher than most at .14xx each. I've always been very happy with Clay for CAS, mostly at minimum listed loadings in .44's and .45's for pistol https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/VMD.pdf
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Thank ya, kindly. ;)
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I've loaded many many rounds of 38 Spec, 44 Colt/Special, and 45 Colt with Red Dot over the years and have always had good luck and accuracy with it. I've never used Clays so can't speak for it but have read and been told by many who do use Clays that they like it. I've had excellent results with Hodgens Titegroup also over the years. Like it's reported "insensitive to position" within the case, esp for large brass like the 45 Colt and 45 ACP. Can't say what the 'fluffiness' mark on it is, it's closer to a ball powder vs flake.
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:) Aw Cummon :)
APP is even better. Just fill the case to bullet base (made a rhyme too). Any Bullet, any bullet weight. Load is the same. APP to the base. It's just simply PERFECT!!
Nanny Nanny PooPoo
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:) Aw Cummon :)
APP is even better. Just fill the case to bullet base (made a rhyme too). Any Bullet, any bullet weight. Load is the same. APP to the base. It's just simply PERFECT!!
Nanny Nanny PooPoo
Aw Coffin---One thing is even better than that wanna-be APP 20th/21st century chemical lab stuff---Good Ol BLACK POWDER that is tried and true over the centuries. ;D ;D
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:) Aw Cummon :)
APP is even better. Just fill the case to bullet base (made a rhyme too). Any Bullet, any bullet weight. Load is the same. APP to the base. It's just simply PERFECT!!
Nanny Nanny PooPoo
I like the thought, but where does a person find any APP?
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I like the thought, but where does a person find any APP?
I think a lot of people have been buying it from Bullets By Scarlett, although I don't have her info. But I recently ordered 10K primers from Natchez and since I was already paying hazmat and shipping I looked for some powder to add to the order and noticed they had Multi-Black, which is made by APP for Shooter's World. Although my last can of APP lasted me 9 years :D I went ahead and added some Multi-Black to the order just to have plus I'm getting low on real black. They still have it in stock: https://www.natchezss.com/shooters-world-multi-black-1lb.html
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By the way, I only just noticed that Shooters World Multi Black has misspelled the word "ignition" on the label of the can!! "Ingnition" Bwaahaa!
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I think a lot of people have been buying it from Bullets By Scarlett, although I don't have her info. But I recently ordered 10K primers from Natchez and since I was already paying hazmat and shipping I looked for some powder to add to the order and noticed they had Multi-Black, which is made by APP for Shooter's World. Although my last can of APP lasted me 9 years :D I went ahead and added some Multi-Black to the order just to have plus I'm getting low on real black. They still have it in stock: https://www.natchezss.com/shooters-world-multi-black-1lb.html
I have enough of the real black, but not sure I want my wife to have the problems associated with real black if I go that way for the .38s that she shoots.
I think I do still have most of one pound of the "Jim Shocky" stuff.
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I have Trailboss, 2.5 can and a 1lb well "9oz" can , but I use in my Milsurps not for Cowboy rounds.
I have about 200 - 30/40 Krag, same in 3006, 303 Brit. and 7.63 Mauser.
So, I'm good, till or if they import it again :-\
Otherwise Tite group or RedDot for smokeless and Shockey's Gold or KIK for BP
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Made another depressing trip to my local gun shop today. The powder situation is dismal and the primer outlook seems worse.
I have a decent supply of the two smokeless powders and primers that I use, so I'm staying smokeless for 45 Colt in my SAAs and 1892 rifle. No worries, I'm perfectly content with that.
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I have Trailboss, 2.5 can and a 1lb well "9oz" can , but I use in my Milsurps not for Cowboy rounds.
I have about 200 - 30/40 Krag, same in 3006, 303 Brit. and 7.63 Mauser.
So, I'm good, till or if they import it again :-\
Otherwise Tite group or RedDot for smokeless and Shockey's Gold or KIK for BP
I've never used Trail Boss in any of my MilSurp rifles using cast bullets, although have considered it. My cast loads for these rifles usually get Red Dot, 4227, 2400, and Acc 5744. All good reduced powder loadings. Use in 30/40 Krag, Springfields, K98k Mausers, Russian Mosin Nagan's, and Brit Enfield's.
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O3 with Trailboss @ 50 yards
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The best high volume powder is holy black
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Clays, Clay Dot and Red Dot are three of my handgun favorites. I use them in 38-40, 44-40, 45 colt, 45 Schofield. 45 Webley. I use VV Tin Star for my Krag and ‘06 lead loads and hopefully it will work in 6.5x55 Swede. I think Tin Star was supposed to be similar to TB but it’s not.
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To make things simple I have decided to use one powder for all my cowboy guns, pistol, rifle, and shotgun. The powder I chose is Red Dot and it does a fine job. I bought an eight-pound jug that should probably outlive me.
Lucky ;D
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Howdy,
When I started CAS, I was able to buy cheap ammo and save my brass (that tells you how long I have been at it). When I decided to start reloading, a very wise and respected local shooter suggested American Select. I use it for .38 and .45 and could use it for shotgun, but I use Clays (which I think I could use for my pistol ammo). I'm happy with the results. For what it's worth.
Rev. Chase
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:) Well Ha!! ;)
I have also chosen One Powder for ALL of MY CAS needs. Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun.
APP. APP bis geshund you betcha!!
Play Safe Out There
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Post modified to delete.
My question was answered in a previous comment. Carry on and I'll try to keep up! ;D
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:) Well Ha!! ;)
I have also chosen One Powder for ALL of MY CAS needs. Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun.
APP. APP bis geshund you betcha!!
Play Safe Out There
How is cleanup on that stuff? Inquiring minds want to know. ;D
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I did some research a couple of days ago, and it looked like CLAYS was the next best thing to TrailBoss, but guess what? There is no Clays to be found anywhere.
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Well....Ifin you can find any Red Dot, I've loaded many many (1000's) of lead bullets all the way from 38's, 44 Specials, and 45 Colts with Red Dot with great success and good accuracy in the power level that CAS is shot. I've never used it myself, but have read of loaders using Green Dot also. Can't recall if its faster or slower in burn rate than its Red cousin, but in the ball park.
Winchester 231 works well also (many many rounds loaded with it) if it is still available or Hodgdon HP38 which it and 231 are basically the same powder. As I mentioned in an earlier post Titegroup works well, have loaded it some in 38 Spec, mostly in 45 Colt and 45 ACP. It is regarded to be position insensitive which works well in large cases. I never noticed any problems back in the day with light loads of Bullseye, 231, Red Dot, HP38, etc in 38 Spec rounds, esp shooting in any of my Police Combat or PPC days or any CAS type ranges/shooting. These ranges and the type of shooting isn't like trying to get real tight groups as if paper punching from a rest. If any of these powders can be found, you won't be disappointed. (edited) :)
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...One thing about HP38 is that it is considered by Hodgdon to be insensitive to position in that it burns well wherever its laying in the case. Works well esp in bigger cases like the 45 Colt...
I've never heard that about HP38 (or 231). You're not thinking of Titegroup are you? They definitely say that one is not position sensitive. I've used it and it is okay but a little "snappy".
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:) RRio ;)
Clean-Up is a breeze. When using it in Suppository Shooters, I wipe down the Breach end of the Barrel/Frame with PAM, swab out the barrel with a wet PAM patch, dry patch, oily patch. Same routine for the Cylinder. Easy Peasy.
Will need to drop the fired cases in some water cut about 25% with White Vinegar, rinse, dry, I dry tumble, reload. Also really easy.
Play Safe Out There
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I've never heard that about HP38 (or 231). You're not thinking of Titegroup are you? They definitely say that one is not position sensitive. I've used it and it is okay but a little "snappy".
MY BAD ::) ::), believe yer right Abilene, had a brain seizure of some kind. ;D Was thinking of Titegroup which I've shot alot of in various calibers. I do like Titegroup though. I believe yer right, it is a bit 'snappier' than 231/HP38, but not enough to hinder shooting IMO. I did research HP38 on Hodgdons site before posting this, no mention of it being position insensitive. I DID go back to my last post before this and edited it to prevent any confusion by any readers.
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The best high volume powder is holy black
Not really, but that is best kept for a different thread! ;D
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Once again, I would like to reference this thread from "leverguns"
https://levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=27410
it shows actual pressure data for BP, Trailboss, and SR4759
please read the whole thing.
they make a valid point based on real data that TrailBoss
is a fluffy smokeless and IS NOT a BP sub or for older guns.
SR4759 has an almost identical pressure curve as Black Powder, and apears to perform somewhere between FFFg and FFg
as always, YMMV
yhs
prf mumbles
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:) For RRio ;)
I need to add an addendum. Have been playing with some Suppository Shooters of late and have found very little fouling on the Cylinder Face. Run a whole match without a wipe-down.
For Fun and Frivolity with your pistoles, APP be your Huckleberry. just skip that fad heathen smokeless stuff ;D
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I have used A2 in .38 spec 38spec level loads in 357 mag medium range loads in 9mm cowboy action loads in 44 spec 44 spec level loads in 44 mag brass 45 colt and reasonably stout 45 acp loads sufficient to meet WB power factor for years one must be careful as 2x or 3 x charges will fit in a case with disastrous if not catastrophic results. To avoid this and eliminate squids I batch charge cases into a loading block visually inspect to ensure all cases are charged and powder levels are the same before seating bullets
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Will we ever see Trail Boss again? Are they even making it?
It has been my "go to" for cowboy loads for many years and I would hate to see it go away for good.
I am getting real low on it also.
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Will we ever see Trail Boss again? Are they even making it?
It has been my "go to" for cowboy loads for many years and I would hate to see it go away for good.
I am getting real low on it also.
I spoke to a person at Hodgdon last May, I believe it was, who said they would not begin making it again until the first of the year. Best thing to do is keep sending emails, and let them know there is a market for it. ;)
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I spoke to a person at Hodgdon last May, I believe it was, who said they would not begin making it again until the first of the year. Best thing to do is keep sending emails, and let them know there is a market for it. ;)
Can't email them from their site anymore. Says it's limit has been reached. I messaged thrm through their Instagram and Facebook pages.
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Coffinmaker has one good solution.
Also I have over the years run a lot of Unique through my .45 Colts and it seems to be bulky enough for the .45 Colt case.
Respectfully
Bunk
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For what it's worth, 9 grains of 4227 under a 158 grain lead bullet in .38 special seems to be just as pleasant to shoot as 4 grains of TrailBoss, and might be a tad more accurate.
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For what it's worth, 9 grains of 4227 under a 158 grain lead bullet in .38 special seems to be just as pleasant to shoot as 4 grains of TrailBoss, and might be a tad more accurate.
There are many many options for 38 special and really no need for Trailboss in that cartridge. It's the big old black powder cases that it was it's main intent with it's bulkiness.
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In my Uberti 1894 Winchester, 38-55 with 250gr bullet this is what 7.5gr of Trailboss does at 100 yards.
I really, really hope Trailboss is back on the shelves in 2023.
The bullet in the image is 290gr, just grabbed it for showing scale/size of group and holes.
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Trailboss is made by ADI in Australia as was imported into the US by Hodgdon.
Because of changes to the REACH standard ADI was forced to reformulate all of their pistol powders including Trailboss. To date there is no reliable information as to when or if TB will ever be available. ADI has been saying next year for at least 3 years in a row.
All the shooters in OZ are struggling because of the multi-year drought of available pistol powders brought on because they signed on to comply with the REACH standards imposed by the EU