Uberti schofield and 777 Hodgdon's

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy to the camp.

went to a match yesterday and was shooting .45 Schofields that I had loaded for a 45 Colt Henry that I since traded for a 44-40 Henry.  These were a 200 grain bullet over 25 grn volume of 777 with a CCI magnum pistol primers. They shot well from both the Cattleman and the Schofield.  The problem was that with the schofield, they began to foul the cylinder after on 10 shots.  On the third stage, I had to hand turn the cylinder.  Granted, it did not foul as quick as real BP or Pyrodex, but it did foul.  I noticed that there is almost no clearance between the barrel adnd the cylinder.  Maybe I should open it up a might.

Back when I tried to shoot BP in the Schofields, I tried gooping the large, hollow cylinder pin (? the word escapes me) with bore butter.  That got me two stages.  The Schofield this time was just lubed with light oil.  I wounder if it would work better if I grease the cylinder pin like I did with BP.  It would be nice to get 5 stages without cleaning<g>

[Doc Waxham]

I have also tried black with my pistol with little luck. I did polish the cylinder pin with emerey cloth then degreased and lubed w/ bore butter. I have'nt been to the range yet to try. Also would a shim on the cylinder pin help reduce the binding at the front?

Doc

[Virgil Ray Hality]

I would avoid opening up the barrel/cylinder gap.  None of the replicas will shoot BP well.  Therefore opening up the gap will just injure the gun in an irreversable way.  Give APP a try.  I liked it better than 777.

I took my two (2) Uberti Schofields out to the range yesterday along with 100 44-40 cartridges filled with APP (about 1.9cc). 

Revolver 1: (this revolver has a tight barrel to cylinder gap).
I was able to get 30 rounds out of this gun before the cylinder got sluggish.  After 35 rounds I used a little bit of Ballistol sprayed in between the cylinder and arbor/pin to fend off the grit lock.  After 40 rounds I had to spray a little bit of Ballistol between the cylinder and arbor/pin and on the cylinder stop notches and along where the bolt drags.  I was able to get 50 rounds out GF style this way. 

Revolver 2 (this one has a bigger barrel to cylinder gap than Revolver 1, and the bad cylinder boos/gas ring is not cut level):
I was able to only 10 rounds out before the cylinder got sluggish.  After 20 rounds I used a little bit of Ballistol sprayed in between the cylinder and arbor/pin to fend off the grit lock.  This held up unilt after 35 rounds I had to spray a Ballistol between the cylinder and arbor/pin and on the cylinder stop notches and along where the bolt drags.  I was also able to get 50 rounds out GF style from this revolver.

I think I may still buy a new cylinder.

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[Lars]

As I understand it, the S&W replicas were seriously degraded for use with ANY BP when the cylinders were lengthened to allow use of 45 Colt. Story as I understand it, is that this lenghtening nearly totally eliminated the "crud bushing" that diverts BP crud from the cylinder pin on any properly designed BP revolver (Rogers and Spencer, Colt 1873s, Ruger OA, etc.). The resulting geometry has the barrel-cylinder gap just about directly over the junction of the cylinder and the frame, where the cylinder pin passes through --- BAD, really BAD -- that lets the powder gasses blow their load of crud almost directly onto the cylinder pin.

IN ADDITION -- if that bummer was not enough -- it also appears that the hand pushes the cyliinder forward so much that the cylinder face gets really close to the back end of the barrel -- close enough that most any crud on the cylinder face is enough to cause difficult rotation of the cylinder. Shortening the back end of the barrel is reported to be a short path to a ruined gun.

This has totally kept me from flirting with the idea of getting a replica S&W in 44 Russian for use with authentic BP loads. In addition, the "Russian" writing on the barrel is real offputting to anyone that is even 1/2 Russian -- who wants to read that it was made in Italia?

Lars

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

I have since tried greasing the cylinder shaft with tetra lube grease (non- petroleum base and does not carbonize, and made it through a match with no trouble.  That was in my 7 inch that I sold.

I have to try it in the 5 inch I just got.  I think that the shorter barrel, it will decrease the amount of fouling pushed out.

[Bead Swinger]

Hi All
I might be just lucky, but I took my Uberti Russian (in .44R) and put 50 rounds of 777 (FFFg) and 10 of BP (FFg) before it started to become sluggish. I was experimenting with loads for velocity and accuracy.  The BP gave the best groups, but the velocities recorded were so low as to be unbelievable (300 fps?)

Since it was an indoor range, they weren't real happy with me, and I haven't repeated the process.  I was using the .429 BigLube bullets.
I'm planning on using 777 in matches this Spring, so I'll let you know how it goes.

Of course, I might not have a good idea what sluggish really means - if it cycled properly without a noticible change in force applied, I assumed it was OK.

[Flint]

It should be noted that neither a real original Schofield or Russian, or #3 later breaktop will shoot many rounds of black powder before fouling to a stop.  It, as well as the mixed ammo problem, was probably another reason the Army sold off the Schofields and retained the slower reloading, but far more black powder tolerant Colt SAA.

I have an original Smith 3rd Model in 44 Russian, and either black powder or Pyrodex will stop the gun before two full cylinders are fired.

However, the near alignment of the cylinder gap and the gas ring gap on the Uberti guns (and the S&W 2000) make the situation far worse.  I don't understand why Uberti made their Russian cylinder so long, unless they had possibly planned to chamber 44Special.

The VTI website a few years ago carried 44 Special cylinders (and barrels?) for the Schofield, but Uberti never delivered the parts, so the part is no longer listed.

The Schofield cylinder is a bit longer than the Russian, but if Uberti had chambered 44 Schofield instead of 45Colt, they could have shortened that cylinder and extended the gas ring.  I do realize that the rebirth of the Schofield round  for CAS shooters came after the introduction of the Uberti gun.