SASS Competition holsters for 7 inch Schofield?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hello,

Has anyone competed with holsters made for the 7 inch barreled Schofields.

Any tips for a newbie?

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,
Not sure what you want in a "competition" holster for SASS matches.  I don't compete with the Schofields, but there are a number of patterns residing in my pattern drawer.  Go to www.gunfighter.com/trailrider

[St. George]

You might want to re-post this one on the 'Shooter's Meeting' forum.

It deals more with 'competition'.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Advertising]

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I guess I should give more input; and I will post in the other area as well.

Besides being a rank beginner and needing to build speed and muscle memory, after watching my first match I believe those long seven inch barrels may have me at an even greater disadvantage.

I bought one cross draw holster to the match and was immediately regaled with tales of the 'crossdraw two step' required by many range officers in order that the barrel stay in the 170 degree cone.

Plus, the leather was deemed to be too 'soft'; that anyholster had used in SASS shooting should not only be fairly stiff, but have the 'lips' of the holster worked outward so that the gun would holster quickly.

So rather than reinvent the wheel, I was wondering what other people with Schofields might be using.

And when I said 'competition', I was speaking of SASS meets .....

So anyone have any suggestions of what is working for them?

[Trailrider]

Howdy, again, Pard!
The 7-inch barrels on your Schofields should give you no more problem than the 7-1/2" Colts/Rugers/etc.  A longer barrel is just that.

I understand that you want to be competative in SASS matches.  The thing is that these are NOT FAST DRAW contests.  What I advise people new to CAS is to learn to be smooth and consistant, and HIT THE TARGETS.  Speed will come.  But you do not want to get into dangerous habits trying to "clear leather" a few milliseconds faster.

Any holster (mine, others) should be stiff enough to maintain its shape and while not dragging on the gun during the draw, should not be so loose as to be a danger of the gun falling out when bending, walking, running, etc.  The outward curve at the top of the holster is easy enough to do if the leather is of proper consistancy to start with.  Either the holster maker can do this, or you can do it yourself by wet-fitting the holster.  Always buy holsters that are made of vegetable-tanned topgrain cowhide.  Latigo or oil-stuffed leather is NOT what you want.  A lining also made of topgrain veg-tanned leather, smooth side to the gun, while costing a bit more is probably the way you want to go.

So far as the "crossdraw dance" is concerned, it is NOT a SASS rule.  The only rule is that the muzzle of the gun not break the 170 deg. "plane" during the draw or when re-holstering.  This can be done by simply twisting the upper body a bit.

For conventional, butt rear carry/draw, the holster can be made to hang lower on the belt by either building in more drop to the belt loop or using a buscadero belt.  The former, IMHO, is better as it allows the holster to be slid on the belt to whereever location works best, whereas the buscadero rig's slot fixes the holster at one location.  The top of the holster can also be cut down somewhat in front so the muzzle can clear more easily.  But you MUST GUARD AGAINST COCKING THE GUN WHILE STILL IN OR PARTIALLY IN THE HOLSTER! IMHO, it isn't necessary to cock the hammer before the muzzle is pointed downrange, and lessens the likelihood of an AD.  KEEP YOUR THUMB OFF THE HAMMER SPUR UNTIL THE GUN IS POINTED DOWNRANGE!

Hope this helps.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I had this HUGE and (I thought) pensive post that I had written and just lost it to cyberspace ... so I will try to rewrite it.

I agree that a seven inch barrel is a seven inch barrel. But after going (as a non-competitor) to my first meet, I saw that most of my peer were sporting 4&1/2 inch barreled hoglegs in custom SASS holsters. So when in Rome .... I have ordered a pair of holsters from Will Ghormley, who did all the leather for the movie '3:10 to Yuma'. The holsters will be based on the ones worn by the character Charley Price, but 'plain Jane' without the black color, studs or decorative stitching. The great thing about the holsters is that if I find that a Range Officer has a real problem with crossdraw rigs, they can be reversed right for left to make them a double strong side rig. I have read the SASS handbook, and other than the 30 degree max cant and 170 degree rule, the manual is very flexible. But it is on the pages of these forums that I have read that some range officers demand that the 'crossdraw twostep' be completed by all shooters wearing such a rig. If it should come to a situation like that, I would think that I would just reverse the holsters and shoot double strong side.....

Point taken that I must learn to follow the 'rules of the road' of shooting, that I must learn the basics before being competitive.
I realize that I will have very real 'internal' barriers to overcome (eye-motor coordination, muscle memory, maintaining awareness of my surroundings etc) without any avoidable 'external' barriers (like bad equipment). I pick up my Schofields tomorow, and know that I have a lot of time to be spent on a traditional range (get the to a gunnery?  Sorry) . I also know that I have about a month of time using caps in my home or off range practising with my holster and guns before I ever step onto a SASS range. Getting back to my original thoughts, my feeling is that the more 'external' pitfalls I can avoid gives me more energy to concentrate on the 'internals'.....

I hear you on getting the right leather and such.  That is why on my first set of holsters I have left the choices on that area to a professional .... *S* perhaps in the future I will have more experience to make these choices for my own, but this time I am leaning heavily on a person whose experience and judgement I have come to trust.

Whe have also discussed stiffeness and turned-out lips on the holster, and he is going to incorporate both while keeping the holsters nearly full coverage and 'safe in all normal ranges of motion'.... I even faxed the pages concerning holsters from the SASS manual to him.

Holster height .... I occaisionally socially ride, usually in mixed company, and have found that having a pistol riding on a high holster works very well for riding. I have had one or two occaisions when a situaltion could have gotten very ugly but didn't due only to my hand on the pommel of a pistol.

In the movie '3:10 to Yuma', of the things that caught my eye was when Charley Prince was able to get those seven inch barrels out while on horseback. It may have been some kind of Hollywood picture magic, but it did catch my eye.

Another reason why the movie caught my attention was that this man is much like myself, short trunked with LONG weapons to get out of holsters. I remember thinking, 'Wow, if he can do it...' again I tip my hat to Hollywood magic, but it did seem doable having seen him.

And his were high riding holsters ....

Drawing 'techniques'; thanks for the reminder! The previous owner of the Schofields has had them 'slicked up' and the trigger effort is decreased. I can see that early on in the drawing practice premature firing would have raised its ugly head. Thank goodness I am planning to use caps to practice this!

So ater your admonishments I will have to pay particular attention to keeping my trigger finger out of the trigger guard until the barrel is horizontal and pointing downrange. I imagine I would have discovered this early on, but foresight is literally forewarned.

Thanks for all your input.  And speaking for all newbies, i welcome any and all input. Please feel free to email or PM if you wish .....

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Here is the pics of Will Ghormleys work.

The 'Charley Price' holster is towards the bottom of the page.

And without all the fancy stuff (color, studs, stitching), the price is little more than a conventional storebought holster.....

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/Holsters.html

[St. George]

There's the 'real' Old West and then there's the 'reel' Old West...

That said - you're right to wonder about movie magic, since so many things can be manipulated with ease.

A long-barrelled revolver is easily drawn (and worn on horseback) by using a cross-draw.

My own S&W Schofield is carried in an El Paso Saddlery 'Cheyenne' holster originally built for a Colt, but happened to fit the Schofield with a bit of stretching, and I also have a crossdraw made by 'Classic Old West Styles' that I added a nickel-plated concho to that changed the look entirely.

Neither are 'fast' - nor were they ever designed to be, since revolvers carried during the era were carried 'deep' in the holster for protection and retention.

You can see examples of this in Rattenbury's book 'Packing Iron - Frontier Gunleather of the Old West'.

Schofields are different to shoot - especially if you're used to Colt Single Action Army or the numerous clones thereof.

Their balance and sense of overall 'feel' will take some getting used to, so practice and dry-firing will do wonders for you and for your scores, but moreso for your safety on the firing range.

Don't worry about 'speed' - worry about 'accuracy' - do that, and eventually you'll get more familiar and you'll be a bit quicker.

Good Luck.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Dalton Masterson]

Howdy Wadd! Come see us over in the leather shop forum, and bring your questions with you! Many of us over there will be glad to help ya out! We have lots of photos posted, and its easy to see whats being talked about there.
Welcome!
DM

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I think I have already posted there, but thanks for the invitation!

I bought a Texas Jacks right hand/left side cross draw holster ... when I showed it to a group of SASS at a shoot (say that three times LOL), the pronounced it too soft, too tight and not enough turnout to the lip at the top of the holster.

Shortly after that I was viewing the shorts on the computer for '3:10 to Yuma', and they had a link to Michael Ghormleys website. AS more of a jest and attempt at learning something about holsters, I fired up an email to Mr. Ghormley .... he offerred me a deal I could not refuse on the holsters that was worn by the character Charley Prince in '3:10 to Yuma' Minus the coloring , studs and stitched rose of course.

What was funny was that last weekend I was at the club that I am probably going to join. The Range Officer explained to me that the double crossdraw has been banned by SASS at all shoots 'cause it was nearly impossible to keep the barrels within the 170 Degree Rule.

But the way the holsters are made, I believe that they can be reversed (i.e., left holster on right hip, right holster on left hip) and make a pretty good double strong side holster. When they are reversed, I even think that the cant of the crossdraws worn on the opposite side will not only help to keep the barrels pointed forward, but also help to get those 7" barrels clear of the holsters.....

The holsters are due May 18th; it is the last thing that I need to shoot; I can hardly wait!

[Dalton Masterson]

Ah, Will G. will make you a very nice pair of holsters, no doubt! Hes a good guy, and hangs out in the Leather Shop as well.

As far as double crossdraw rigs being illegal, that may be your clubs rule, but I dont think its a SASS rule. I will need to do some checking on that. Its not legal in a few classes, like gunfighter, but I think its legal in most others.

Those long barrels may help you get to be a better shot, which is the first step to being a fast shot.
Good luck!
DM

[WaddWatsonEllis]

This is my third attempt at a reply. The other times I was kicked out 'cause I went over the 150KB size limit.

So this time I will not post any pictures.

YES, Mr Ghormley is I am sure going to make me some very special holsters ... that even makes the waiting worse!

I already had a lined Cartridge belt that I had Gene Autry style belt buckle, tongue tip and tongue guide,
Mr Ghormley has it and is going to match the holster to the belt or vice versa. I have no idea and will I am sure be pleasantly surprised when it arrives ....

AS far as shooting with bit barrels, my fun gun of the last 20 years or so has been a Webley .455 Mk VI (circa 1916). Somewhere along the way it was both Parkerized and the cylinder cut down so that it now fires .45 ACP with full moon clips or .45 Auto Rim.
The barrel is 6 inches and the weight loaded is about four pounds plus.

The nices thing about a long, heavy barrel is how fast the pistol will settle down after the recoil for target reaquisition (sp?)...

I had tried to add pics of the Webley, but they always made the post too large.  I might do another post just to add the weapon....

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Nope, even one pic from my camera blew me out of the water .... sorry. If you are REALLY interested in the Webley (it IS a top break, after all!), email me .....

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Wadd;  It is useful, but still a shame that your Webley was rechambered.  Useful, as now cases are basically free.

Still;  When making ammo for the Webley, stick to .455 level loads.  You old wobbly will love you for the consideration.

[Dalton Masterson]

I like the old Webleys too. I dont have one tho. I have a WW2 era Enfield in 38, thats darn fun to shoot. Would like to get a pair of big Webleys one of these days.

I checked on the double crossdraw rule. According to SASS, it is legal to wear them in all categories except Gunfighter, and B-western. It may be a club rule tho, but its not a SASS rule. You just have to be VERY careful you dont sweep anyone or break the 170.

DM

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I have really got my money's worth out of my old Wobbley. I believe the cylinder was cut down by a military gunsmith a long time ago .... don't have any history on the gun.

The only problem with firing .45 ACP is that the rounds expand to the size of the .455 Webley cylinder when shot and the shells can't be resold for .45 ACP reloads.

Unfortunately I have always shied away from reloading and don't have the equipment..... even now, there is a local shooter who makes his living on guys like me ..... or at least pays for his shooting. He is presently making me up about 50 .45 Schofield rounds, and will be making much more if I have my way .... *S*

As far as the double crossdraw it is a romantic notion, but Mr Ghormley is making me a brace of holsters that can be reversed and shot double strong side ... rather than argue the crossdraw fact, I will probably shoot double strong side when I am in SASS ... and rig it double crossdraw on the rare occaisions that I am invited on horseback.....

[St. George]

Those  big Webley and RSAF Enfield MkVI's were cut by civilian gun dealers - not military armorers - to make them more attractive to the American buyer, since it was easier to sell them in America, what with the availability of .45ACP after WWII, as the British .455 round was never imported in quantity...

If someone wants one, they'd better start looking 'now' since their prices are going up rapidly - especially un-altered ones.

They're great fun to shoot in .455 - you can watch the round sail into the target when the sun's just right.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

What I used to get a kick from was the eyes of the shooter next to me at a normal range.  Although I have never seen it, I am told that from the side there is a flash from the front of the cylinder that extends about six inches outward ...

[WaddWatsonEllis]

HI; I just got an email with pics of the beginning of the holsters from Will Ghormley.....
I am including them here.

He is also having a housecleaning sale to get rid of alot of the rigs from  '3:10 to Yuma'; here is the website for the sale:

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/SpringSale.html

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I have already posted these pics on the Leather Forum, but thought I should put them in here too.

The program is getting finicky, so I am going to do three different posts for the three pics ...