2nd Model American

[Fox Creek Kid]

I got to shoot a buddy's 2nd Model American today that is curiously chambered in .44 Russian. I loaded up some rds. for him using 20 gr. Swiss FFFg and 200 gr. BP lubed bullets. We only shot it at 7 yds. but even at that distance it shot easily 6" high (normal for period guns), but dead on for windage pretty much.

For coolness factor it is off the charts of course. However, for being able to cock fast and facility of cleaning......uh no. They are far more difficult to clean regarding the cylinder. Cleaning BP residue from one will make you a Colt man in a day. 

[The Pathfinder]

Fox Creek, I believe what your buddy has is a 1st model Russian or Old Old model Russian. They were identical to the Americans but chambered in 44 Russian. Forty Rod can also chime in on that. We tried for the longest time to get Navy Arms to follow up the Schofield with that model and got their 3rd model instead. Again tried to get the 1st after the 3rd and...we're still waiting. I've had the chance to shoot a few of the old top breaks and that one has always been my favorite. Just can't find one that's affordable and shootable at the same time, so we really hoped Uberti would hear us. Glad you got to enjoy such a rare treat.

[matt45]

Interesting- when you talk cleanup, are you saying that it is difficult because of disassembly, or does it bind up like the modern top-breaks do? 

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[Fox Creek Kid]

Fox Creek, I believe what your buddy has is a 1st model Russian or Old Old model Russian. They were identical to the Americans but chambered in 44 Russian...

Nope. It is a FACTORY LETTERED 2nd Model American. There is a thread or two on the S&W Forum in the Antique section that explains this.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Interesting- when you talk cleanup, are you saying that it is difficult because of disassembly, or does it bind up like the modern top-breaks do? 

We only had 13 rds. Yes, the Model 3's are harder to clean BP from than a Colt or Remington.

[The Pathfinder]

Fox Creek, that is interesting. I'll head over there after work and check it out. In that case, you've got to experience something the rest of us can only dream of. Congrats.

[Colt Fanning]

Hi,
I have an new model #3 and thought it was hard to clean until I removed the cylinder by unscrewing it from the base pin. Then it is as easy to clean as a colt.  Maybe the American doesn't come apart this way.
Regards
Colt

[Forty Rod]

I'd still like to get a pair of 2nd model Americans / 1st Model Russians (Same guns except for chambering and I've seen both marked with both calibers.) in .44 Russian, 8" barrels. and it's one of the very few guns that I'd prefer in nickel plate finish.

More of them made than Schofields and I detest the Schofield latch system... it screws up the look just like the angle eject on a Winchester '94.  Supposed to be easier to operate with one hand, but I never found that to be true.

The cylinder "unscrews" from the upper frame and makes for very easy cleaning, but if a repro were ever made I'd likely shoot smokeless in it, and if they ever make a repro I hope they don't screw it up with color case hardened frames.  That would just be obscene.

The 2nd American / 1st Russian is one of the most elegant looking pistols ever made, especially with the 8" barrel and one of the originals that I had was as accurate as any fixed open sight gun I have owned.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Hi,
I have an new model #3 and thought it was hard to clean until I removed the cylinder by unscrewing it from the base pin. Then it is as easy to clean as a colt.  Maybe the American doesn't come apart this way.
Regards
Colt

Yes, we removed the cylinder, but there are IMO more nooks, crannies & crevices to clean on the Model 3 than any Colt.

[The Pathfinder]

"Yes, we removed the cylinder, but there are IMO more nooks, crannies & crevices to clean on the Model 3 than any Colt."

And black powder residue WILL find a way to get in each and every one of them.

[matt45]

     At the risk of engendering controversy, I think Mike Venturino is spot on in his book... While I doubt anyone will argue that the Colt or Remington are more robust and easier to maintain, the Smith's have their advantages.  I bring Forty Rods comments on this thread re: accuracy of his old Smith to mind.  I am not an expert, and about everyone here has shot the old pistols more than I have, but... I have fired a lot of vintage peacemakers.  In my experience, most are indifferent shooters.

[Judge Roy Bean]

A pal of mine has a S&W American with a .44 Russian cylinder , he read that you could send then back to S&W to have then for the new better cartridge fitted as the barrels were the same.

[Driftwood Johnson]

he read that you could send then back to S&W to have then for the new better cartridge fitted as the barrels were the same.

Howdy

I don't think S&W does that kind of thing anymore.

Regarding cleaning a Model 3, there are Model 3s and there are Model 3s.

It is quite simple to clean my New Model #3. Lifting the latch frees the cylinder to spin off the arbor, and it is simple to clean. Not the same as cleaning a Colt, but certainly not difficult.





Same with my Double Action 44s.





The Schofield takes a little bit more effort, the original half screw has been replaced and has to be completely removed to free the cylinder. But then it is easy.





The Russian is easy to remove the cylinder and clean, but getting the ratchet back correctly on this gun is always a real pain. I don't shoot it very much because of that.




Lastly, I learned quite a while ago that I don't have to remove every last molecule of fouling. BP fouling that gets saturated with oil will not cause any rust. Any fouling that is hidden in a niche or cranny will be coated with Ballistol, along with everything else, and the hidden fouling does not cause any rust.

[matt45]

Hooaugh

[Good Troy]

These are such fine looking revolvers!  I'm jonesing for a pair...

[Blair]

Driftwood Johnson,

On the older model #3's (those that pre date the New Model #3), look at the forward section of the hinge area. You will see three arrows marked on the knuckles that make up the hinge. (one arrow will be on the center cam that operates the extractor assembly)
Line these arrows up when you go to re-install the cylinder assembly. The barrel assembly should be open enough to allow the cylinder and extractor rod assembly to slip back into its proper position.
These arrows are index marks designed to help re-assemble the gun after cleaning.
I hope this info helps.
My best,
 Blair

[Flint]

I have an original S&W Russian, as well as Uberti, neither likes black powder, though there is no choice with the original.  When I got my original, it had no grips.   Uberti grips fit it perfectly..

I do wish Uberti had made the proper shorter cylinder on the Russian, as that would have allowed a longer gas ring to help with the fouling problem.

Actually, the real culprit for rust in the old guns was the fulminate primer.  The modern primers allow a shooter (at least in a dry climate) to wait a few days for cleaning without a panic attack.

The more modern powder that is a rust worry, though, is Pyrodex.  DON'T leave it long without cleaning, I clean it quickly at the range, before even bringing it back home.  Real BP I don't have that concern..

[Cole Younger]

2nd Model American in the Russian calibre or 1st Model Russian or Old, Old Russian.  They are all the same thing. 

[Fox Creek Kid]

2nd Model American in the Russian calibre or 1st Model Russian or Old, Old Russian.  They are all the same thing.  

Beautiful 1st Model American!!!    You should post photos of this on the S&W Forum in the Antique section. If lettered it in all likelihood will show shipped to their No. 1 dist. M.W. Robinson in NYC or a "bring back" shipped to Wexell & Degress.

[Forty Rod]

2nd Model American in the Russian calibre or 1st Model Russian or Old, Old Russian.  They are all the same thing. 

Like I said, it's simply elegant.